22 replies to this topic

[Rim Kerenski]

This is my thrid time playing this game and the first since the second week after launch.

I love BT and have been playing it in some form since the 80s; the coming Clan invasion is one of the reasons to come back. Although I will not be buying one of those exorbitant mech packages. But this game.... is so far love hate; and the hate is winning.
(I also didnt mean for this post to be so negative towards the game, but thats how it came out.)

Right now I am still figuring out which mech to stick with more, I tend to like heavies and assault armed with either missiles or PPCs, but the ones I own dont seem to be the ones making a difference in game.
Catapult-A1(with artemis), Atlas-D(F), Awesome, and Fang.
I have a bunch of MCs sitting around for a clan mech.


Meta Mechs- Rookies cannot trick out their mechs to be anywhere competitive with these over loaded machines. It will take me weeks to even get the CBs to buy a chassis, let alone the equipment for it. IS mech varients should be set in stone like they always were. You buy the D varient, it stays the D varient forever. You can swap an LRM for an SRM or a ML for a PML, but thats about it. The way it is why even have varients? Just sell stripped chassis with omni hardpoints everywhere. Or better, make a seperate queue for them.

Accuracy - of all the BT video games this has to be the worst accuracy one of the bunch. I've been working hard at adapting to this game's quirks, but when I play other piloting games it throws me off again. I use a mouse and KB; and the damn crosshairs are all over, all the time.

The Awesome - Why does every single missile fired anywhere near it hit the center torso? (yes I have AMS and try to block the flight path)

Missiles - I have always loved missile boats since they could always contribute to the lance. Not so much here. I take it they were very powerful a few months ago seeing how weak they are now.

Face Hugging and Blocking - A 20 ton mech should never be able to pin an assault mech to a wall.


I'm going to give it a dew more weeks. My time is limited so a game has to be enjoyable for me to slog through the 'up to speed' phase.


Any tips on current affordable meta mechs/builds would be a help as it seems that is the only way to have any fun in this game right now.
Also- mouse settings. I have everything on the low end right now and it still seem to jump all over.

[Modo44]

Rim Kerenski, on 21 May 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

Accuracy - of all the BT video games this has to be the worst accuracy one of the bunch. I've been working hard at adapting to this game's quirks, but when I play other piloting games it throws me off again. I use a mouse and KB; and the damn crosshairs are all over, all the time.

Pro tip: Lower your mouse sensitivity and/or buy a reliable mouse. Helps in every shooter.

[Roosterfish]

Rim, this game has a very long learning curve and you get thrown in with the starving wolves with a bloody pork chop tied around your neck. It's a hard game not to get discouraged at.

Set yourself goals like to live the whole match, getting one kill, or doing a certain amount of damage to begin with. If you just look at how many times you get killed or win/loss you're gonna get discouraged. Do baby steps, when you get enough baby steps done maybe you'll be able to stomp on someone.

As far as your Awesome it's got a huge center torso. It's not the barn door or even the whole barn sized it's the 40 acres the barn sits on sized. A 6 year old kid could throw a rock at it from 200 yards and still hit the center torso.

[Pekiti]

I recommend you hop over to Guides & Strategies > Heavy Mech Builds subforum and find the thread called 'Fang?'. It has some nice tips and encouragement for doing well with the Fang mech, and that might help you out.

If I can get the link to work I'll paste it here.

Edit:
http://mwomercs.com/...ic/157111-fang/

Edited by Pekiti, 21 May 2014 - 09:39 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

None of those mechs listed are the "popular" ones, but I'd recommend working with the Fang if you're looking for cbills to buy other mechs. Find weapons you like using and are effective with. You might not have the best stats, but find something that feels right for you.

One important question: Do you have pilots skills unlocked for any of these? They truely make a world of difference in any mech.

Edit: Oh and your Atlas is a Founder's mech so it also gets a cbill boost, though not by as much.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 21 May 2014 - 09:40 PM.

[Teela Zain Elmes]

Enter the cokcpit and master the mech! It's not the mechs fault it's the fault of the pilot cause he's the one who pilots it. It's about the skill!

[Redshift2k5]

LRMs will strike mostly CT on just about every mech unless extreme measures are taken, such an intentionally offering your side or back to a missile volley. Missiles cluster tight enough that if you just stand there, you're going to get cored.

missiles are still quite powerful if you can work to ensure they are hitting the target- although if you played with missiles on May 20th-May 21st, LRM were broken during the patch and repaired late on Wednesday. Try your missiles again after the hotfix, and try to use them closer to the target to give them much less time to evade.

Most players of moderate or high skill would disagree about the game being at fault for a lack of accuracy- Accurate shots at ranges exceeding a kilometer are possible in the game. Adjust your sensitivity and mouse acceleration and try again. An improved mouse may help as well. Try a different DPI setting for your hardware settings, not just lowering the ingame sliders.

Meta mechs are not any more expensive than other mechs- nearly every decent build, meta or not, is going to lean on expensive upgrades such as DHS and Endo-steel even if you don't use "meta" weapons. If you are low on c-bills I would look for tried&tested builds for mechs you already own before looking at buying new chassis and starting over. you probably won't do so well in a strictly meta cookie-cutter build since they do best when they can land all long range shots consistently on-target, a PPC+AC5 meta won't do you any good if you can't aim at their optimal range ~650m and are still learning vital skills like defensive torso twist and positioning.

What mechs do you have? Which weapon systems do you like/are best at?

[Ustarish]

some "pro" players have problem with admiting that poptarting isnt the way 'mech game should be played.
just ignore them Rim.
if you have a1 why not trying CPLT-C1
imho its more versatile. you carry your own tag [it helps a lot] and it is only improved stock variant [2xLRM20 instead of 2xLRM15, one ml swamped with tag and added some ammo etc]
target decay is useful. if you lock on a jumping poptart at 500-600 meters you will hold it long enough for your missiles to score a hit.

Good luck and see you on the battlefield hopefully.

Edited by Ustarish, 22 May 2014 - 12:59 AM.

[dragnier1]

I'm gonna answer your first question.

I recall, in mechwarrior 3 i was able to modify my mechs. Yes, inner sphere mechs. I also recall, in crescent hawks inception i could modify the commando, stinger and locust in the speed shop, changing weapons and armor, though the changes were fixed.
Now i have not played TT, but i read from some who do that they modified their mechs. It is also noted in one of the novels that kai modified his centurion.

To conclude, IS mechs are modifiable, just not like clan mechs.

[The Dreaded Baron B Killer]

it's funny how people go on about Meta n whatnot.

My ATLAS DDC build has a whopping 77.2 firepower rating... yeah he's one Mean mofo.... His Alphas (when the servers can accurrately read the SRMS) are devasting and can be one shot kills on some mechs.

Despite this, If I'm not careful, and in some situations, I'm no better off than any other mech or build. To assume because a mech has a build with Whopping firepower makes it some kind of indestructible killing machine is wrong.

I've lost count the amount of times I've taken a wrong turn to find a Victor and a Jaeger sitting infront of me, plowing me and giving me a pretty damn good pounding and shredding me before I can even think of who to shoot first. Conversely I've been in brawls where I killed 3-4 mechs on my own. Was it the builds devastating power? not at all. I outplayed the other pilots. Heck I had no arms or balistics left and killed the last one with SRMS...

Does this mean rookies should fear me? heck no. I've had my ass handed to me by all sorts of players on all sorts of levels.

That's the value of this game. Doesn't matter how good you are or think you are. you will have days where you win, and days where you don't. The ones where you don't is just a matter of poor luck, lack of situational awareness, shoddy team work, whatever.

Just try and find your strong points and work on them. I can't pilot lights to save my life. I have a spider.. i do around 30 damage and usually get crit'd pretty quick, very rare that I'm able to do anything useful in a match with it. I bought it because I saw one guy literally kill 4-5 mechs and take almost no damage. Guy was insane and his playstyle was groovy.. I tried to do what he did and couldn't. No biggie. I stick with my Atlas's and my current Cata build.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rim Kerenski, on 21 May 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

This is my thrid time playing this game and the first since the second week after launch.

I love BT and have been playing it in some form since the 80s; the coming Clan invasion is one of the reasons to come back. Although I will not be buying one of those exorbitant mech packages. But this game.... is so far love hate; and the hate is winning.
(I also didnt mean for this post to be so negative towards the game, but thats how it came out.)

Right now I am still figuring out which mech to stick with more, I tend to like heavies and assault armed with either missiles or PPCs, but the ones I own dont seem to be the ones making a difference in game.
Catapult-A1(with artemis), Atlas-D(F), Awesome, and Fang.
I have a bunch of MCs sitting around for a clan mech.


Meta Mechs- Rookies cannot trick out their mechs to be anywhere competitive with these over loaded machines. It will take me weeks to even get the CBs to buy a chassis, let alone the equipment for it. IS mech varients should be set in stone like they always were. You buy the D varient, it stays the D varient forever. You can swap an LRM for an SRM or a ML for a PML, but thats about it. The way it is why even have varients? Just sell stripped chassis with omni hardpoints everywhere. Or better, make a seperate queue for them.

Accuracy - of all the BT video games this has to be the worst accuracy one of the bunch. I've been working hard at adapting to this game's quirks, but when I play other piloting games it throws me off again. I use a mouse and KB; and the damn crosshairs are all over, all the time.

The Awesome - Why does every single missile fired anywhere near it hit the center torso? (yes I have AMS and try to block the flight path)

Missiles - I have always loved missile boats since they could always contribute to the lance. Not so much here. I take it they were very powerful a few months ago seeing how weak they are now.

Face Hugging and Blocking - A 20 ton mech should never be able to pin an assault mech to a wall.


I'm going to give it a dew more weeks. My time is limited so a game has to be enjoyable for me to slog through the 'up to speed' phase.


Any tips on current affordable meta mechs/builds would be a help as it seems that is the only way to have any fun in this game right now.
Also- mouse settings. I have everything on the low end right now and it still seem to jump all over.

At the end of 25 Matches I had enough money (three weeks ago) to trick out a Solid Heavy Mech. So I will disagree with your assessment of what New players can "afford".

[Nemesis Duck]

Try the Firestarter FS9-K, the poor man's meta.

Equip 8 MLAS, a standard engine and enough double heatsinks for at least 1.1 heat. Endo steel and maybe ferro fibrous armour too, I can't remember.

Set up your left mouse button fire the left arm, your right button to fire your right arm, and your middle button to fire all 8 lasers (alpha strike). Mine is left = group 1, right = group 2 and middle = selected group.

Use your speed and your arm lasers. Keep moving. Only stop to use an alpha for a killing strike. I will usually overheat on the killing strike but one good hit is all that's needed.

I got 6 kills in a match last night.

My mouse is at 1800 DPI but the sensitivity in the options is set very low. Relax and focus your attention on slight movements. You actually want some jumpiness for changing targets. Mine will jump around too but I've learned to control it when needed.

[JonahGrimm]

*bangs head on desk*

Okay, I know my experience isn't typical, but I eat 'meta' mechs more or less constantly. There's nothing special about 'em -- in fact, they have tremendous weaknessess. Like any other meta, there's always a way to exploit it.

My most damaging (not highest kills, but the one that does the most damage) ... has no pinpoint damage weapons at all. Not a one. LB10x, 2 MLAS, MG, 2 SSRM2. It's the one people are terrified to encounter, as it absolutely shreds most of the meta mechs out there if I use it well.

I just don't get it. Yes, there are mechs that are good - regardless of the rules, some mechs are better than others, depending on your goals and tactics.

And that's the point, isn't it? People grouse about the meta - but the meta is counterable. Meta mechs are banking on /hitting/ with those alphas - that should give a hint in how to deal with 'em. (most meta players can't deal with pressure. Exploit that!)

... every tactic has a weakness. Why aren't you busy finding it, instead of grousing about it?

[wanderer]

Rim Kerenski, on 21 May 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

This is my thrid time playing this game and the first since the second week after launch.

I love BT and have been playing it in some form since the 80s; the coming Clan invasion is one of the reasons to come back. Although I will not be buying one of those exorbitant mech packages. But this game.... is so far love hate; and the hate is winning.
(I also didnt mean for this post to be so negative towards the game, but thats how it came out.)

Right now I am still figuring out which mech to stick with more, I tend to like heavies and assault armed with either missiles or PPCs, but the ones I own dont seem to be the ones making a difference in game.
Catapult-A1(with artemis), Atlas-D(F), Awesome, and Fang.
I have a bunch of MCs sitting around for a clan mech.

Heh. I'm the resident missile fiend here, and here's my advice.

1) The -A1 is good for small-launcher spam. Whatever config you use, INSTALL A BEAGLE PROBE. The counter-ECM at close range is critical for someone who relies on lockon. Also, remember to pop the missile doors into "always-on" (the / key) to prevent launch delays when firing.

2) The Awesome-8R is arguably the best mass-LRM launcher around, since it can put 60 into the air at once without staggering the launch thanks to it's 4x15 tube count. Yes, they have a CT like a shot magnet. It's a lot like the Catapult's arms- big targets for launchers.. Because the -8R can keep to cover and still donate heavy firepower, it's IMHO best of the AWS at the moment- but many of the -8 work well along the same roles, see 4)

3) If your mouse is jumping all over the place, something in your settings is funky. I dunno what, but it is. Also, bigger engine = better targeting as higher engine ratings also mean a 'Mech tends to move more smoothly.

4) Screw buying a Clan 'Mech. They're no better than IS ones and IMHO, will be all kinds of broken at launch given the status quo at PGI. Use the MC on premium time and Mechbays, and cycle through skilling up your 'Mechs- something that vet pilots also have an advantage on you with. A single Awesome only has it's basic profs. Getting three up to basics means you get them able to do elites, which doubles those basic profs and makes a real difference- and so does speed tweak. Premium time = respectable C-bill gain and exp gain. Mechbays mean you have room to fit those 'Mechs. If you do the Awesome and want to stay on the LRM side of the force, -8R, -8T, -8V since all of them will be able to duck and cover with LRMs to some extent.

5) Don't fear the meta. Do avoid soloing. The ultimate in frustration in MWO is the PUG. Premades, and a VOIP connection to them are the best balm for that, as it gives you three people you know can back you up and three LESS you know that will simply derp out in a match. I don't pilot meta-anything and still gleefully pile up kills and wins just because teamwork is OP. Check your faction's boards, find where people are teaming up, and GET ON A PREMADE.

Really. This, IMHO is the #1 cure for much of what drives new players insane. The biggest failure of PGI is making the group experience unpleasant and difficult, despite how much it does for making gameplay work for the people who do it.

[Rim Kerenski]

Pekiti, on 21 May 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

I recommend you hop over to Guides & Strategies > Heavy Mech Builds subforum and find the thread called 'Fang?'. It has some nice tips and encouragement for doing well with the Fang mech, and that might help you out.

If I can get the link to work I'll paste it here.

Edit:
http://mwomercs.com/...ic/157111-fang/

Thanks for the info from a lot of you; every MW game tends to have its quirks.
- I have tried 3 different mice. It may be my rig since I am running on a larger than average screen(widescreen). But other games(WoT, EVE, WT, WoWP etc have no issue). Right now I went back to an old Kensington 3 button and have a little less issues. WIll be getting a new stick in the next week or so since my Cyborg did not survive the move.
- I have a BAP on the Cat and thats where a lot of Cbills went, upgrades to the mechs I have. It currently has Artemis launchers on it and my other mechs all have been upgraded to what I can only call 'best in slot' equipment.
- Did not know engine power = smoother ride, will change accordingly.
- I am definately not running in 3rd person.
- Will also be getting all the Awesome's, to round out pilot skills and try them, so I will definately be trying the missile boat.
- the Atlas is a love hate issue right now. Yeah, it has a lot of weapons, but most are mounted low and I get chewed up(by the jumpers) trying to work myself into range.

As far as meta defenders: there is way too much variety available in this game to have it narrowed down to such a small meta field. In other words; there should be a lot more mechs in the meta game and not just pop-tarts. They should have not one, but at least two hard counters. Having one type of mech in the meta will lead to stagnation; just like any other game. (or if you remember the mid 90s tournaments for the table top when people fielded nothing but lances of tricked out Locusts, Grasshoppers, and Highlanders for IS). Archer also has a point with that its not a 'meta game' is 'min-maxing.'
And if its not an issue why are there so many posts about them, even from experienced players?

Edited by Rim Kerenski, 04 June 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[The Basilisk]

dragnier1, on 22 May 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

I'm gonna answer your first question.

I recall, in mechwarrior 3 i was able to modify my mechs. Yes, inner sphere mechs. I also recall, in crescent hawks inception i could modify the commando, stinger and locust in the speed shop, changing weapons and armor, though the changes were fixed.
Now i have not played TT, but i read from some who do that they modified their mechs. It is also noted in one of the novels that kai modified his centurion.

To conclude, IS mechs are modifiable, just not like clan mechs.

IS mechs are modifieable under TT rules but only in a very very limited fashion.
Like Rim said you could switch a med laser for a med pulse or remove a med laser and add some armor, reduce the size of a LRM or modify the ammo loadout. Replacing a med laser with a PPC or a AC 5 with a Gauss rifle was at least problematic.
Anything above replacinge same with same required a fully fledged factory or techshop specialized on Battlemech modification. Replacing (modifying) reaktors was definitly impossible outside of a large facility and switching structure types simply impossible.

IS Mech modification like it was in most BT/PC games is simply hillarious since IS Battlemechs are highly integrated Weapon systems where each component is tailored to the Mech where it is used.
There are story of highly modyfied mechs of certain single persons with a next to unlimited access to funds and Hardware but this cases are one in a million or solaris stables.

Edited by The Basilisk, 04 June 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Rim Kerenski, on 04 June 2014 - 02:39 PM, said:

Thanks for the info from a lot of you; every MW game tends to have its quirks.
- I have tried 3 different mice. It may be my rig since I am running on a larger than average screen(widescreen). But other games(WoT, EVE, WT, WoWP etc have no issue). Right now I went back to an old Kensington 3 button and have a little less issues. WIll be getting a new stick in the next week or so since my Cyborg did not survive the move.
- I have a BAP on the Cat and thats where a lot of Cbills went, upgrades to the mechs I have. It currently has Artemis launchers on it and my other mechs all have been upgraded to what I can only call 'best in slot' equipment.
- Did not know engine power = smoother ride, will change accordingly.
- I am definately not running in 3rd person.
- Will also be getting all the Awesome's, to round out pilot skills and try them, so I will definately be trying the missile boat.
- the Atlas is a love hate issue right now. Yeah, it has a lot of weapons, but most are mounted low and I get chewed up(by the jumpers) trying to work myself into range.

As far as meta defenders: there is way too much variety available in this game to have it narrowed down to such a small meta field. In other words; there should be a lot more mechs in the meta game and not just pop-tarts. They should have not one, but at least two hard counters. Having one type of mech in the meta will lead to stagnation; just like any other game. (or if you remember the mid 90s tournaments for the table top when people fielded nothing but lances of tricked out Locusts, Grasshoppers, and Highlanders for IS). Archer also has a point with that its not a 'meta game' is 'min-maxing.'
And if its not an issue why are there so many posts about them, even from experienced players?

Right now, I am running my mouse at about 500 Dpi, and the mouse sensitivity in the game is set really low. (about 20% or less)

As for the meta. There will always be a meta, because there will always be people who want to min-max. Same thing with RPGs, like for example DnD, there will always be min maxers there. (Nicknamed in the circles I frequent as Min Maximus).

Most of us just do our thing, enjoy our mechs, and have fun that way. I don't get the logic behind fielding meta mechs in a PuG drop. That makes no logical sense to be honest. If you are trying to be competitive, you should be in the 12v12s, otherwise, practicing competitively in an absolutely not-competitive environment is just a waste of time, and e-peen enhancement.

Then again, on the other side, many of my friends like running those builds, because they enjoy the play style. Also, some people really like winning, and they maximize their chances with meta mechs.

[Rim Kerenski]

Walker- I'm not exactly looking for something to go ego stomping in, ie min-maxing, I just want to feel like I'm contributing while having fun; which is somehting I am not getting at the moment. I would prefer to learn all the maps and game flow while sitting in my missile boat.
I am certainly going to change up my fang with some of the options from the afore mentioned thread/link and give them a try. I like the sound of the twin AC/5. If for no more than the much needed Cbills.

I'm still playing with mouse settings maiking gradual changes as I go. I need a new mouse and/or stick to start with since most of that stuff got wrecked in my last move.



edit- spelling is not my friend today.

Edited by Rim Kerenski, 04 June 2014 - 03:25 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Rim Kerenski, on 04 June 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

Walker- I'm not exactly looking for something to go ego stomping in, ie min-maxing, I just want to feel like I'm contributing while having fun; which is somehting I am not getting at the moment. I would prefer to learn all the maps and game flow while sitting in my missile boat.
I am certainly going to change up my fang with some of the options from the afore mentioned thread/link and give them a try. I like the sound of the twin AC/5. If for no more than the much needed Cbills.

I'm still playing with mouse settings maiking gradual changes as I go. I need a new mouse and/or stick to start with since most of that stuff got wrecked in my last move.



edit- spelling is not my friend today.

I see, apologies for my misunderstanding.

As for mice, I'm currently using This baby

It's not the bestest or greatest, but it's performance is very good. I like it, and it has 4 Dpi settings that can be switched between, using a simple push of a conveniently located button.

As for having fun, and contributing, that will come to you.

Remember these important buttons too:

1-Left Control: Free look, your torso will keep facing one direction, while your arms can move freely. Great for popping side shots while protecting your CT from side shots.

2-Left Shift: Arm lock, as long as you hold that button your arms and CT will be locked to each other, and move together.

3- R : lock on, I assume you already know this, since you do play an LRM boat, but it is worth repeating just in case we get new players looking at this. Locking on will allow your teammates to see that target and possibly fire on it as well.

4- Mouse Wheel Button: zoom toggle. It won't activate Advanced Zoom, but it will cycle throguh 1.0X, 1.5X, 3.0X zoom modes.

You should also try dropping with friends. It can help you a lot. You'll have people who can watch your back, and if you are in an LRM boat, they will spot for you.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 04 June 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[Pappus]

John Archer, on 23 May 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

You seriously need to tone it down. The OP's post was mello, concise, and well written. He, and other new players that read this, do not need to read your angst-ridden reply.

Btw folks.. IMHO the term 'meta' should be replaced with 'min-max'.

My 12 cents.

Min-max is the wrong word for it.

When you build a sniper, you can min-max the mech in that role. That has to do a lot with what you would call meta, but not all of it.

Meta is, what might have inspired you to actually build the sniper in the first place, because maybe there are gigazillions of slow brawlers out there and you expect to run into those snipers pretty often, giving you and your team the edge.

And that expectation of what your opponent is likely to do is what the meta gaming actually is.

You expect your enemy to do "a", so you build something to counter "a". The enemy might expect you to do that and instead not play "a", but "b" or "counter-counter-a".

That is what meta is and nothing else.

Edited by Pappus, 07 June 2014 - 10:37 AM.