80 replies to this topic

[maniacos]

Vweegit, on 27 May 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

This is a very poor idea, and I try constantly to break teammates of the habit. That zombie can still spot for his LRMs and teammates, giving them an idea of force size, composition, and location. If there is not a priority target, you smoke that SOB right the hell now.



Perhaps not, but it's alot more fun if you do. You should be trying to kill everyone, if you don't have a better task at hand. I've been saying this forever, but aggression pays off in this game, if you know how to control your mech, and, importantly, know when not to be aggressive.



I can't believe this needs to be said, but this is doubly true if you pilot lights.

You understood that the topic here is Conquest?

[Vweegit]

Jherek C, on 27 May 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

You understood that the topic here is Conquest?

Why, gee, thanks for pointing that one out.

Yes. And the points remain.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

K/D ratio focus severely cripples the importance of objectives sadly.

[Lykaon]

Jherek C, on 26 May 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

There are some quite easy rules of thumb in Conquest:
- don't hunt for kills
If you disabled a mech for instance, let the stumb zombie wander, it doesn't matter. Go back into cover and look for the next target
- stay alife
You don't have to kill anyone.
- use the terrain for cover
Don't get yourself crippled up or destroyed because you hunted that one heavy that was such a easy kill while his buddies peel off your armor.

LIGHTS CAP, HEAVIES KEEP THE ENEMY BUSY WHILE STAYING ALIFE

It is as easy as this.

And there are some severe flaws in Conquest (and in general with MWo role warfare)

We all know were everything is and we all know the likely location of enemy mechs because the maps are painfully predictable.

This leads to predictable deployments and ease of engagment of the enemy.

The tired old front loaded damage meta has encourage mech balling and clumping up to maximize fire power and to all hill hump for cover as a finely honed machine of giant robotic hiding-ness...
This had lead to artillery spam to handle clumping and hill humping (but has really not done much to stop all the highly skilled ducking for cover occurring.

Add to this the highly predictable nature of a typical pug match the tiny (itty bitty in some cases ) maps that allow a 51kph atlas plenty of time to respond to a light capping a resource node from anywhere on the map before the very slowly shrinking capture bar has even shifted by 50%. so why bother.The time spent watching a slowly shrinking capture bar creep down to 0 then very slowly creeping back up to 100% would be better spent just fighting the enemy.Leaving your team short handed while you wait to get run off by an Assault mech that just jogged accross the entire map is a waste.

The entire game mode doesn't lend it's self to tiny maps,predictable travel lanes and known objective locations.There is no role needed other than crunch forward shooting ACs and PPCs.

You don't need to scout for resource nodes we all know where they spawn.

You don't need recon to locate the enemy they will be moving in the same pattern to the same spot they always do because the maps are painfully predictable.

Fast attack and flanking is out of the question because fast flanking mechs (mediums) are easily destroyed by FLD alpha spamming (the meta) and the maps are frequently so tiny the flanking attempt is compromised by easily redeployed heavy/assault assets that fire 30-40 point FLD alphas (perfect for killing mediums)

So roles available are ineffective time wasting light skirmisher trying to cap or engine of destruction meta humping mech that can respond to nearly any threat on the entire map before it becomes a real threat (unless the map is alpine or tormalaine)

[Joseph Mallan]

Jherek C, on 27 May 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

You understood that the topic here is Conquest?

You understand that many players don't care what the match maker says, to them every match is Skermish!

[Flaming oblivion]

I just logged out yet again but through another frustration, If I cap on conquest in my heavy I'm the only god damn person capping , If I don't people sit there hide behind my skirt begging me to save them because there so bad , and need me to take on the 12 man team with the other 2 men on my team so we can pull them all down and they can run in at the last second and get the kill and only the team knows they're little girls that are so bad they had to take the scraps off the good players to pad there stats grr.

[Joseph Mallan]

Flaming oblivion, on 28 May 2014 - 03:06 AM, said:

I just logged out yet again but through another frustration, If I cap on conquest in my heavy I'm the only god damn person capping , If I don't people sit there hide behind my skirt begging me to save them because there so bad , and need me to take on the 12 man team with the other 2 men on my team so we can pull them all down and they can run in at the last second and get the kill and only the team knows they're little girls that are so bad they had to take the scraps off the good players to pad there stats grr.

Just for my own curiosity. If you have been complaining that you are dying a lot... why would someone hide behind a walking target? I personally would avoid you like the plague, as you draw to much enemy fire!

[Flaming oblivion]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 May 2014 - 03:09 AM, said:

Just for my own curiosity. If you have been complaining that you are dying a lot... why would someone hide behind a walking target? I personally would avoid you like the plague, as you draw to much enemy fire!

My k/d is positive its my w/l I complain about , My k/d only I contribute to my w.l diff story.

[maniacos]

Lykaon, on 28 May 2014 - 01:37 AM, said:

And there are some severe flaws in Conquest (and in general with MWo role warfare)

We all know were everything is and we all know the likely location of enemy mechs because the maps are painfully predictable.

This leads to predictable deployments and ease of engagment of the enemy.

The tired old front loaded damage meta has encourage mech balling and clumping up to maximize fire power and to all hill hump for cover as a finely honed machine of giant robotic hiding-ness...
This had lead to artillery spam to handle clumping and hill humping (but has really not done much to stop all the highly skilled ducking for cover occurring.

Add to this the highly predictable nature of a typical pug match the tiny (itty bitty in some cases ) maps that allow a 51kph atlas plenty of time to respond to a light capping a resource node from anywhere on the map before the very slowly shrinking capture bar has even shifted by 50%. so why bother.The time spent watching a slowly shrinking capture bar creep down to 0 then very slowly creeping back up to 100% would be better spent just fighting the enemy.Leaving your team short handed while you wait to get run off by an Assault mech that just jogged accross the entire map is a waste.

The entire game mode doesn't lend it's self to tiny maps,predictable travel lanes and known objective locations.There is no role needed other than crunch forward shooting ACs and PPCs.

You don't need to scout for resource nodes we all know where they spawn.

You don't need recon to locate the enemy they will be moving in the same pattern to the same spot they always do because the maps are painfully predictable.

Fast attack and flanking is out of the question because fast flanking mechs (mediums) are easily destroyed by FLD alpha spamming (the meta) and the maps are frequently so tiny the flanking attempt is compromised by easily redeployed heavy/assault assets that fire 30-40 point FLD alphas (perfect for killing mediums)

So roles available are ineffective time wasting light skirmisher trying to cap or engine of destruction meta humping mech that can respond to nearly any threat on the entire map before it becomes a real threat (unless the map is alpine or tormalaine)

I no where said, that Conquest is a perfect mode. My intention was more to get better teamwork *if* we are dropping in a Conquest match. Conquest could need many improvements, and the rewards for duck-sitting in a square could be better too, no question.

What many here forget however is that I said, lights should go cap. That means capping together. And when you have 4 lights in the square, the time for cap reduces to some seconds. That's the time, the heavies have to survive using cover and *careful* and *intelligent* movement unlike Skirmish where the whole team storms into pewpew brawl.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Let's not forget the days when ECM was the new meta and those exploiting it for the sake of winning instead of engaging the enemy would play ring around the rosy just trading caps. Then came module strikes, and anyone trying to cap or defend had to eat 3-4 arty strikes and instant death because a strike could come from anywhere across the map. Tryhards and bad game design in an endless loop of perverting the spirit of the game until now most would prefer to avoid the caps and just set up the yee'old regimental line to knock each other down with musket balls. Borrring!

Still... Conquest is 100x better than assault because of turrets.

Edited by lockwoodx, 28 May 2014 - 06:36 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

lockwoodx, on 28 May 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Let's not forget the days when players when ECM was the new meta and those exploiting it for the sake of winning instead of engaging the enemy would play ring around the rosy just trading caps. Then came module strikes, and anyone trying to cap or defend had to eat 3-4 arty strikes and instant death because a strike could come from anywhere across the map. Tryhards and bad game design in an endless loop of perverting the spirit of the game until now most would prefer to avoid the caps and just set up the yee'old regimental line to knock each other down with musket balls. Borrring!

What was the first victory conditions during that time frame sir? In fact I do believe it is STILL the primary victory condition on all but Skirmish Scenarios. So implying that using the primary victory condition is somehow wrong is just bad logic Lockwood.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Conquest sucks right now, may as well fight.

All you ever get is about 6 lag shielded light pilots on 1 team running around capping.

3/3/3/3 would make the game more fun for sure, taking out the other teams lights would net a big advantage.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 May 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

What was the first victory conditions during that time frame sir? In fact I do believe it is STILL the primary victory condition on all but Skirmish Scenarios. So implying that using the primary victory condition is somehow wrong is just bad logic Lockwood.

Your logic is what's bad and backwards sir.

PGI implies the point of conquest is to complete MAP objectives, with the secondary objective being the ability to eliminate your opponents. Otherwise every map would only be skirmish by default. By tryhards exploiting the meta in order to force everyone else to conform to their preferred way to ignore primary objectives, the maps have lost their meaning and it degenerates into skirmish more often than not now. If you go capping, you'll get scorned because they built their mechs for tarting and cry foul when players actually play the way the map was meant to be played. Thank you for allowing me to highlight how the bad behavior by the hardcore community has compounded aspects of bad game design.

Edited by lockwoodx, 28 May 2014 - 07:11 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sounds like the tryhards who's logic is bad to me.

I could care less about players scorning my attempts to win by the primary victory condition... If my Atlas could reach a Cap once in a while!

[WildmouseX]

TexAss, on 27 May 2014 - 03:25 AM, said:

there are nearly no rewards if you win by cap and didnt kill/kill assist anyone...

so again, why should I waste my time standing on a square in a mechwarrior game?

If you kill 10 of 12 mechs, but lose to cap points - you are still a loser!

Edited by WildmouseX, 28 May 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Joseph Mallan, on 28 May 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Sounds like the tryhards who's logic is bad to me.

I could care less about players scorning my attempts to win by the primary victory condition... If my Atlas could reach a Cap once in a while!

Have you tried defending every once in a while? It's a long lost art when it comes to MWO.

[maniacos]

shad0w4life, on 28 May 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Conquest sucks right now, may as well fight.

All you ever get is about 6 lag shielded light pilots on 1 team running around capping.

3/3/3/3 would make the game more fun for sure, taking out the other teams lights would net a big advantage.

Problem is, that for 4x3 you need more players obviously, because as it is now, finding a match by that rule takes aeons.
Maybe the game needs to become more noob-friendly to get more players, but that leads to the other everlasting discussion here.

Edited by Jherek C, 28 May 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[maniacos]

Speaking of primary objectives. This is what you get when you capture the base without fighting.


I got 67k for capping in Conquest without fighting... primary objective in assault gives you null. 25k for win only... someone tell me that win by capturing base is so easy that it deserves no reward?

Edited by Jherek C, 28 May 2014 - 10:41 AM.

[maniacos]

I dont understand this. Why is it so hard for people to think! EVERY conquest I am in either my or the other team acts like idiots, dieing one after another because half of their team is capping while the other half confused think "lets skirmish the enemy that will get me win"
Why is it not possible to use brains in this game

[Thorqemada]

Bcs we witness future become reality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy