32 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Almond Brown, on 26 May 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

Damage drop off works pretty well. If someone wants to waste ammo (heat not so much) hitting me at less than optimal range, why the hell not. An AC20 at 600m is waste of perfectly good ammo but you see it fired all the time. Plink Plink is doing "something versus, crap, Large Map, I am useless unless the enemy closes...

P.S. I think the LRM in BT was 630m (21 hex) Long Range.

The problem is that those extra ranges serve the current static meta a lot. If the weapon fall off ranges are globally eliminated, why would you be useless on a large map since everyone's range are affected? It will actually make mechs with SRMs easier to close in without getting shot to bits--giving brawling a new lease in life.

I don't mind if the LRM range is 630. I prefer to use it at less than 630 meters anyway. At least LRMs will feel like one of the longest ranged weapon, as opposed to being outranged by many energy and ballistic weapons.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 May 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

El Bandito, on 26 May 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

Of all the immersion issues, that is the least of concern IMO. Besides, in all the materials I read, I don't recall IS mechs in 3050 duking it out at over a kilometer. I do remember them generally slugging it out within few hundred meters. I'd say current 2-3x range is actually killing the Battletech immersion.



That's why people should learn to bring mixed loadouts. Also, reducing fallout range will actually help against long range sniping and empower brawling.

Actually if you look at MW4, it just meant that people boated long ranged weapons and played reverse/accelerate games at max range to get in shots without people being able to shoot back effectively (since they had like 1 second or less to shoot back)

[Khobai]

agreed no more x3 range.

ballistics need to be lowered to x2 max range. And ERLL/ERPPC need their range lowered as well.

the long range on weapons make sniping a dominant playstyle and brawling weapons have no real place in the game.

Also the x3 range on ballistics and absurd range of the ERLL really hurts LRMs, since LRMs are supposed to be one of the longest range weapons in the game, yet get outranged by weapons like AC5s and ERLLs. Nerfing the range on these weapons puts LRMs in a better place.

Edited by Khobai, 26 May 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

Put in an Alpha/ no Alpha game mode. Players that want up front, pinpoint alpha gameplay are happy, hell why not remove ghost heat for them as well ( hail the return of the 6 ERPPC Stalker). People that don't want Alpha Meta play can have their mode as well. There, conundrum solved.

[Khobai]

Quote

People that don't want Alpha Meta play can have their mode as well

Nobody should want the alpha meta. Its detrimental to the game in every sense. It makes it so only a very small subset of weapons and mechs are worth using while every other weapon and mech is obsolete.

[Almond Brown]

El Bandito, on 26 May 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

The problem is that those extra ranges serve the current static meta a lot. If the weapon fall off ranges are globally eliminated, why would you be useless on a large map since everyone's range are affected? It will actually make mechs with SRMs easier to close in without getting shot to bits--giving brawling a new lease in life.

I don't mind if the LRM range is 630. I prefer to use it at less than 630 meters anyway. At least LRMs will feel like one of the longest ranged weapon, as opposed to being outranged by many energy and ballistic weapons.

So it is the SRM yet again. Well sadly the other weapons, those that out-range almost ALL the shorter range ones would still have the same advantage.

So to FIX that just provide the SRM's a 2x bonus (with drop-off of course), along with Flamers and then ALL weapons have the same added ranges based on type. No need to change all but 2, just change the 2 oddballs.

Edited by Almond Brown, 26 May 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[Ryokens leap]

Khobai, on 26 May 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Nobody should want the alpha meta. Its detrimental to the game in every sense. It makes it so only a very small subset of weapons and mechs are worth using while every other weapon and mech is obsolete.

Agreed Khobai, but it seems the Meta, top tier honchos have PGI's ear more so than the rest of us Plebians. I don't want to play their style and they don't like mine, therefore an Alpha/ no Alpha game mode may help the issue. The player base is already divided so what could it hurt?

[Gyrok]

El Bandito, on 26 May 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

Eliminating the fallout range will make SRMs a viable choice and make LRMs actually long ranged missile.

I'm down with that.


If not, then increase missile range by 2x. Fair is fair.

Negative, if LRMs were removed from the game, I would not shed a tear at all. They are currently so OP I cannot even stand to play them. They require no skill to use, what-so-ever, and are only a crutch for players with high pings and low skill.

Do not get me wrong, there are some skilled players that run them, but that does not mean they take skill to play well. Running at my ELO, my BLR-1S has a KDR north of 2.00 with a W/L around 1.5 and averages almost 600 damage per match. Granted, I have a bad match here and there when I am not paying attention and get caught out...but generally I put up 600 damage and 2+ kills per match, and it is TROLLISHLY EASY.

By contrast, in my highlander, I average just shy of 500 damage per match and roughly 1.5 kills. I have 4x as much seat time in a highlander as I do in my missile boat, and I am an above average shot...(pushing 65% accuracy with UACs and similar with PPCs).

LRMs should actually be dialed back to where they were before...unless this is all preparation for LAMS. If that is the case then I am perfectly happy with where they are since they will become irrelevant again soon, as all low skill threshold weapons should be...(also explains why no ECM variants for clans yet announced if LAMS is indeed coming...interesting thought though).

[Khobai]

Quote

Negative, if LRMs were removed from the game, I would not shed a tear at all. They are currently so OP I cannot even stand to play them. They require no skill to use, what-so-ever, and are only a crutch for players with high pings and low skill.

Theres nothing OP about LRMs at all. Everyone at the top levels of competitive play uses PPCs and ACs. Not LRMs.

[El Bandito]

Almond Brown, on 26 May 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

So it is the SRM yet again. Well sadly the other weapons, those that out-range almost ALL the shorter range ones would still have the same advantage. So to FIX that just provide the SRM's a 2x bonus (with drop-off of course), along with Flamers and then ALL weapons have the same added ranges based on type. No need to change all but 2, just change the 2 oddballs.

Even if PGI increase the missile ranges with fall off range, it will do very little against snipe meta due to slooooooooow missile speed, in comparison to its new range. As I mentioned the umpteenth time reducing other fall off ranges will help diversify the gameplay, thus benefiting everyone.

Gyrok, on 26 May 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

Negative, if LRMs were removed from the game, I would not shed a tear at all. They are currently so OP I cannot even stand to play them. They require no skill to use, what-so-ever, and are only a crutch for players with high pings and low skill. Do not get me wrong, there are some skilled players that run them, but that does not mean they take skill to play well... ...LRMs should actually be dialed back to where they were before...unless this is all preparation for LAMS. If that is the case then I am perfectly happy with where they are since they will become irrelevant again soon, as all low skill threshold weapons should be...

So you want an entire lore based weapon system that is mostly used in low elo pug matches and is totally countered by a team with half a brain, to be nerfed out of relevancy just because it is easy to use? That's utterly laughable.

News flash: I find PPCs and ACs also easy to use--especially on my meta DS. That does not mean I want them removed though.

Oh, Strikes are also stupidly easy to use as well.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 May 2014 - 05:50 PM.

[Theodore42]

Try shooting at mechs from 1800M with the gauss rifle. You will find it is very easy to hit anybody... as long as they're standing still. So just don't stand still and you got nothing to worry about. Also, at 1800M you're doing 1 damage, so it is more a waste of ammo than anything. I only do it to buff my assists and get more CBills. Also, its funny to hit a light mech running at 1800M and they look around and try to figure out where the shot came from. LOL! But for 1 damage it is a waste really.

Take River City as an example. If I'm trying to snipe the brawlers fighting around the buildings, I'm gonna have trouble getting shots off, and am just as likely to hit a friendly appearing from behind a building as an enemy. But if players are brawling in the the river where there is no cover, I'm gonna chew you up. That's just how it is. There is a place to brawl and a place to snipe. Choose to fight where you have the advantage.

Also, I know it hurts to drop in a brawler on Alpine. There are some things you can do but they mostly depend on the enemy coming to you. LAME!

I wonder how this game would be different if you could pick your mech AFTER you get into a map. Maybe with UI 2.0 this is possible? Maybe??

Anyway, GGs all, look forward to seeing you on the battlefiled. (Don't be afraid of my gauss at 1800M!)

[Wolfways]

Khobai, on 26 May 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Theres nothing OP about LRMs at all. Everyone at the top levels of competitive play uses PPCs and ACs. Not LRMs.

I'm not a top player, or anywhere near that, but LRM's are almost useless against me because i know how to use terrain. When i'm using LRM's however i do okay with them, which just shows i'm not in a high ELO
I tried using LRM's only in direct-fire and was shot to crap because i couldn't torso twist while holding the lock. Imo LRM's need to be fire-and-forget (and yes i'm saying that because since CB i've been waiting for a Mad Dog Prime, and with the way LRM's currently work it will be useless ...assuming my ELO goes up, which i feel it has just recently).

[Praehotec8]

I have to second this. There is a general consensus (so it seems from reading the forums) that brawling is difficult and should be buffed somewhat.

Lowering the effective engagement range of all weapons except LRMs would give LRMs a bigger purpose than currently without being overpowered.

It would also lower the engagement ranges, making it easier for brawlers to get in return fire before being cored by PPC/AC5 fire, thus making brawling a more effective tactic.

All of this could be accomplished WITHOUT nerfing the abilities of other weapons, and would still allow sniping skill to matter. It also would be more intuitive for newer players (who may not realize that an AC can fire 3X its listed range, but an LRM not only stops at exactly 1000m, but it has a minimum range also).