69 replies to this topic

[Willard Phule]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

Technically then they're still Inner Sphere ACs used on old Star League (thusly Clan) mechs. They wouldn't be 'uniquely' Clan in the sense of reduced weight, slots, etc. At least not from an on the surface level. Then again I've been reading mostly 2800 to 3025 to collect weapon samples.

You're right, I double checked it. They'd either have it refit with UAC/LBX class ACs or it'd be some kind of Isorla/Brian Cache find/leftover Star League equipment. Not common, depending on when and where you are in the timeline. Seems to me I've read about some of the secondary clans trying to push into the Invasion Corridor that were fielding some weird crap....especially the Ice Hellions.

Still...shame you can't use specialty ammo in standard ACs. It's one of the few things that makes them useful later on down the line.

[Koniving]

Willard Phule, on 26 May 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

Still...shame you can't use specialty ammo in standard ACs. It's one of the few things that makes them useful later on down the line.

You mean in MWO right? The Clan LBs in MWO is the first step to allowing that, as we're supposed to be able to 'switch' ammo.
I wonder how they'll let us do that. I imagine it involves using the arrow keys and then another button to select the weapon and 'toggle' the ammo?

[Koniving]

Waelsleaht, on 26 May 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

IS mech fires UAC5, shooting 2 rounds for 10 damage.
Clan Mech fires UAC5, shooting 3 rounds for 3 damage and jamming.

IS UAC/5 1 round for 5 damage, no jamming. 2 rounds for 10 damage and jamming.
Clan UAC/5 5 rounds for 5 damage, no jamming. 10 rounds for 10 damage, jamming; all 10 rounds fired before a regular AC/5 can fire a second time. (So in the time it took that Inner Sphere UAC/5 to pump out 2 shells, you just pumped out 10).

So in the time two of these fire, I'll have pumped 10 shots per Clan UAC/5.


Paul only ever mentioned "Ultra autocannons will do 5 round bursts."

Now, Paul specifically says "Just the Clan UAC, not the Inner Sphere." Its during the confusion between Sean and Darren where one of the two is correcting the other that Clans don't have 'autocannons'.

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2014 - 03:40 PM.

[Waelsleaht]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

IS UAC/5 1 round for 5 damage, no jamming. 2 rounds for 10 damage and jamming.
Clan UAC/5 5 rounds for 5 damage, no jamming. 10 rounds for 10 damage, jamming; all 10 rounds fired before a regular AC/5 can fire a second time. (So in the time it took that Inner Sphere UAC/5 to pump out 2 shells, you just pumped out 10).

So in the time two of these fire, I'll have pumped 10 shots per Clan UAC/5.


Paul only ever mentioned "Ultra autocannons will do 5 round bursts."

Now, Paul specifically says "Just the Clan UAC, not the Inner Sphere." Its during the confusion between Sean and Darren where one of the two is correcting the other that Clans don't have 'autocannons'.

they never mention anything about shooting 10 rounds. but then again they never mention anything about double shooting either. So to say it will shoot 10 rounds without jamming is just an assumption. but i doubt they would have it do 10 rounds then jam. if anything it would jam mid way. Because ive had my UAC5 jam after the first round. why not have it jam part way threw 5 rounds?

[Koniving]

Waelsleaht, on 26 May 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

they never mention anything about shooting 10 rounds. but then again they never mention anything about double shooting either. So to say it will shoot 10 rounds without jamming is just an assumption. but i doubt they would have it do 10 rounds then jam. if anything it would jam mid way. Because ive had my UAC5 jam after the first round. why not have it jam part way threw 5 rounds?

Specifically the only mention was UACs will do "5 shots" a rating.
The Inner Sphere weapon is 1 shot per tap.
If it's 5 shots instead of 1, then...if it's 5 shots per tap, then 10 shots is a logical progression. The weapon isn't supposed to ever jam unless you double tap (thusly should never jam on the first shot anyway), so for the Clan UAC/5 it shouldn't start jamming until somewhere between "6" and "10" on the 'double tap' if it jams at all. It's supposed to match the jam chance of the Inner Sphere UAC/5.
There wasn't a mention of if there would be variation in it for each class, sadly.

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2014 - 03:53 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Waelsleaht, on 26 May 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

they never mention anything about shooting 10 rounds. but then again they never mention anything about double shooting either. So to say it will shoot 10 rounds without jamming is just an assumption. but i doubt they would have it do 10 rounds then jam. if anything it would jam mid way. Because ive had my UAC5 jam after the first round. why not have it jam part way threw 5 rounds?

You fire once, 5 shells come out. You fire twice, 10 shells come out, or it jams. Not individually.

[Waelsleaht]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

Specifically the only mention was UACs will do "5 shots" a rating.
If it's 5 shots per tap, then 10 shots is a logical progression. So it shouldn't start jamming until somewhere between "6" and "10" on the 'double tap'.
There wasn't a mention of if there would be variation in it for each class, sadly.

yes but he never says anything about it double shooting. he only talks about the UAC20 doing 5 rounds for 20 damage. not once does he say it double shoots for 40 damage with 10 shots.

all the same we will find out tomorrow. (or soon as he mentions his intention to reveal more clan stuff before end of may.)

Waelsleaht, on 26 May 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

yes but he never says anything about it double shooting. he only talks about the UAC20 doing 5 rounds for 20 damage. not once does he say it double shoots for 40 damage with 10 shots.

all the same we will find out tomorrow. (or soon as he mentions his intention to reveal more clan stuff before end of may.)

dont forget the clan UAC is a completly different mechanic then IS UAC. i wouldnt put it past them to only have 5 rounds and no double fire but a faster weapon recycle.

[Koniving]

Waelsleaht, on 26 May 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

yes but he never says anything about it double shooting. he only talks about the UAC20 doing 5 rounds for 20 damage. not once does he say it double shoots for 40 damage with 10 shots.

all the same we will find out tomorrow. (or soon as he mentions his intention to reveal more clan stuff before end of may.)

Double shooting is what they all do. Standard and double rates of fire. Why would they not?

Btw... here's a funny thing.
UAC/5 mechanic already in the game.
1 shot for 5 damage.
*2 for 10 damage.
"5 shots for 20 damage."
"* 2 for 40 damage."
Hmm...

It may be possible for them to change the overall mechanic, but lets be honest you'd then make RACs completely pointless and invite jams before even completing 5 damage with a UAC/5. Not only is it stupid but it makes absolutely no sense.

The only thing truly changing is how many shots fire.

It's as simple as changing the 'beam time' for medium lasers from 1 second to 1.25 seconds for Clan ER ML.
Except instead of beam time it is projectile count per tap. After all one firing still has to produce "5" damage and 1 heat per firing.
Otherwise you have an "AC/1" that generates heat in 0.2 point intervals, and can macro it so that you're completely heat neutral.

So what I'm saying is yes its possible, but it doesn't seem bright. Though even if they did it your way it would still be within lore (but would need 6 shots or 4 shots instead as it's supposed to be 'double' the shot count when using the 'ultra fire' function and be native at 3 or 2 shots without it). They are the sort that'd say "just control your fire" and leave you hanging, but to do that properly in a well received way they'd need to let players choose between 'standard' and 'ultra fire' firing speeds. New mechanics, new buttons, new problems. PGI already dipped its hand in 'new' and got burned. Plus we never heard a 'machine gun' style mechanic be mentioned. Just a specific, arbitrary "5 shots." Then there's the mechanic for the double tap system which already exists.

Sadly we know PGI doesn't seem to care how well received its mechanics are (look at ghost heat. Though I could understand for third person view; their financial backers IGP and/or Microsoft? forced it).

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[Waelsleaht]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

Double shooting is what they all do. Standard and double rates of fire. Why would they not?

Btw... here's a funny thing.
UAC/5 mechanic already in the game.
1 shot for 5 damage.
*2 for 10 damage.
"5 shots for 20 damage."
"* 2 for 40 damage."
Hmm...

you just wont let me get the last word will you? you have to attack me with your logic.

Remember this game developer does not follow BT lore. They do not follow logic. They want different flavors between them. not the same weapons.

I never once said they wont do it. I am saying they might not. Devils Advocate of sorts. conversation material. But fine ill let you get the last word. if you respond attacking me yet again ill just ignore it for my own sanity.

[Strum Wealh]

Hans Von Lohman, on 26 May 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

PPC's should be like other energy weapons, and do damage as a beam (which is actually a series of individual hits like an MG, but the art and sound effects trick your brain a bit).

To me PPC's should be a tri-burst weapon and fire three shots in rapid succession.

That is what they're doing with the Clan Ultra AC, and probably because of the C-UAC-20 in particular. I think this also needs to apply to the PPC's, and then maybe we wouldn't have needed ghost heat?

Khobai, on 26 May 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Nah it should fire once but the damage should arc like lightning across multiple locations. So instead of doing all 10 damage to one location it might do 6 damage to one location, 3 damage to an adjacent location, than 1 damage to another adjacent location. PPCs are described as being similar to lightning bolts and we know it does electrical/emp damage so having it arc across locations makes sense.

"The tank's main weapon is the Parti-Kill PPC. Unlike other particle cannons, the Parti-Kill does not use an energy collection capacitor or similar chamber. Instead, it uses a series of magnetic collection bottles that gather their energy straight from the fusion reactor. These energies are then channeled through a larger magnetic bottle and released from the cannon. This fires an energy 'shell' that loses cohesion and disintegrates at 540 meters. The Parti-Kill's bolts are unstable at ranges under 90 meters." - Manticore Heavy Tank, TRO 3026, pg. 64

In addition to the above, every canonical reference to PPC fire from 'Mech- or tank-mounted weapons describes the weapon as firing a single bolt or pulse of what looks like "man-made lightning".
With regard to the notion of "arcing": a PPC bolt is described as looking like a lightning bolt, but it is nothing of the sort; it is a particle beam weapon, not an electrostatic generator.
"Consisting of a magnetic accelerator, firing high-energy proton or ion bolts, PPCs can flay armor through kinetic and thermal damage. While popular belief may hold that PPCs are an electromagnetic weapon, it’s worth mentioning that even though most PPC bolts look like a flash of manmade lightning, the actual electrical component of a PPC attack is little more than an intense burst of static." - TechManual, pg. 233

However, smaller units - namely, the Man-Pack PPC and the Semi-Portable PPC - can fire either single larger bolts/pulses or bursts of smaller bolts/pulses (for the burst-fire modes, the MechWarrior RPG rules for SMGs are used), according to page 110 of TRO 3026.

Coupled with how the various autocannons are described to work (see here), the only weapons that should be both "pinpoint" (e.g. be able to concentrate all of their damage in a single specific location) and front-loaded (e.g. deliver all of their damage instantly when the salvo connects) are the PPCs, the Gauss Rifles, and the UACs.
The rest of the weapons should be one or the other - lasers and burst-fire ACs (which is how the vast majority of AC types work in the source material) would be "pinpoint" but not "front-loaded", while LB-X cluster rounds and the vast majority of missile launchers (where # of tubes ≥ # of missiles) would be "front-loaded" but not "pinpoint".