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#421 GroovYChickeN

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 02:49 PM

View PostBongfu, on 23 May 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Another gem from reddit that our very own El General Community Manager helped create.

I guess he is implying that PGI's policy is to laugh at our feedback rather try to develop a game we are paying for to be developed.

Explains a lot really.

Posted Image



I support Niko's response. If you think you know better than PGI. Go make your own damn game and prove it. Otherwise.....

#422 Tremendous Upside

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 02:56 PM

View PostDymlos2003, on 23 May 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:


What? I would do the same? Some of the ideas these people throw out are just ridiculous. Don't try to act all high and mighty. I'm sure you do it to, actually you guys do it all the time with PGI.


Then again /mwo is a cess pool of haters drowning in their hate and will never see any reason.


Yeah, and it's all well and good to feel that way. Essentially telling your customers that you think they're idiots? That's not going to win a lot of people over. See there's a big difference between you or I face palming over what we feel are idiotic design decisions and PGI guys admitting they do the same over us. They're supposed to be professionals...

#423 Runs With Scissors

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 02:59 PM

no doubt most ideas players come up with are infeasible for a lot of reasons, and that the people giving those ideas don't realize why. (my ideas probably fall under that category) But not EVERY idea has to be crap and by ridiculing people trying to improve the game is KILLING what little goodwill those people have left, especially when most are making a point to present their idea in a mature fashion and not in a way to just slam PGI.

Having hundreds of people giving ideas on how to fix things gives PGI the ability to sift through them for a gold nugget of awesome.

This should be welcome because MWO has HUGE problems regarding the balance of weapons, especially PPCs, ACs and ECM. No game is ever perfectly balanced but just looking at the tournament tells you something is wrong.

#424 Bongfu

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:03 PM

View PostGroovYChickeN, on 23 May 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:



I support Niko's response. If you think you know better than PGI. Go make your own damn game and prove it. Otherwise.....


The thing is, at least with founders like myself, I feel like PGI has not lived up to their end of the bargain. I am no game designer, but I am no idiot either. I know its hard work and a lot of elements have to be orchestrated in order to come up with a successful design. However, the truth is laid out there for anyone who isn't an idiot to see. PGI bit off more than they could chew. We are paying them to develop the game for us, the game so many of us Battletech fans have wanted for a long time, and what do we get for that loyalty and financial support?

We get a community manager that censors our feedback and a lead developer that can do nothing but give us half truths and dead horse responses to serious questions we as the financial backers should be asking. Like with any business model, we as consumers are what matter for the product. When we are disenfranchised, drowned out by the same broken promises, and otherwise ignored, how can a company expect anything less than utter outrage?

So my simple response to you is: We are paying PGI to develop this game for us. Ergo, they should be more open to feedback and to the community that is trying to talk to them. Especially the community that has left because they feel this is no longer a Mechwarrior game.

#425 Roland

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:05 PM

Pgi is not Nintendo.
Pgi does not have a history of making some of the most beloved games of all time.

When you do that, then you can compare yourselves to Nintendo's developers.

#426 Wikikomoto

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:32 PM

nobody asked when we're getting the beautiful mackie?? the only question that matters, and nobody asked it.

no, in all seriousness. when can i have my mackie?

#427 The Wakelord

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:06 PM

Really good job. Good answers, good game.

Quote

Q: Do you have any thoughts/plans on trying to win back some/any/all of the community who have become embittered/disenfranchised over time (for whatever reasons) with MWO/PGI?
A: Guys: When we started down this path it had been around 10 years since the last MW game was developed and believe me when I tell you, nobody was going to make one. PGI stepped up with our own money and livelihoods to take on the daunting task or working with a difficult IP with a clouded history to revive the brand, where no other companies were willing to go.

It has not been easy and we have not done a perfect job. But were continuing forward and if we take a step back we can realize were playing pretty darn fun MechWarrior game in 2014 with some advancements we have never seen in a MechWarrior game before AND the best is yet to come!

Great answer from Russ. Now stop complaining you sour little poops.

#428 Bongfu

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:19 PM

View PostThe Wakelord, on 23 May 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

Really good job. Good answers, good game.

[/b]
Great answer from Russ. Now stop complaining you sour little poops.


Mechwarrior is fun, but advancements never seen in a Mechwarrior game? What are those? Unless he means a pay-to-play model and advancements on how to **** a community for money... then yes! PGI has done a fabulous job.

We have been hearing that the future is bright since closed beta. That was years ago in a dark age when we still believed in PGI. Now they have proven they cannot keep their word on ANYTHING that PGI says. They can't even release something like private matches until years later and then make us pay for the ability to use the functionality beyond set 12v12 matches.

Sorry if I seem sour, but I wanted a game from a company that could deliver on their visions. If the company had trouble, they would be open and honest about it, not give us bull and excuses like "game developing is hard." Well no ****. If PGI is not up to the task I would rather see them drop the IP and let someone develop a mod like Living Legends than continue on the downward spiral they are falling into.

#429 Mitzli Softpaw

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:20 PM

View PostThe Wakelord, on 23 May 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

Really good job. Good answers, good game. Great answer from Russ. Now stop complaining you sour little poops.


Nope nope nope. Especially not when they didn't even transcribe the single most popular question into their post here on the forums. They were made aware of this nearly 8 hours ago, tweeted that it would be edited, and it still hasn't been done. It would have taken 1 minute to copy/paste, but instead they ignored it. Wanna know why? It's because it was a question they didn't like with a wish washy answer that was the same BS we get fed every time. I was willing to call it an accident early, but I have even more doubts as time goes on and the post goes without being updated.

Edit for format.

Edited by Mitzli Softpaw, 23 May 2014 - 04:26 PM.


#430 Magic Murder Bag

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:32 PM

After playing Dark Souls 2 and Kerbal Space Program, I decided to come back here to see how the forums are holding up out of boredom....although there are some valid points from some people here, the rest is just as I expected as before.


Stay classy MWO forum users, as I need my entertainment (IGN boards are getting boring to read now).



I expect an "ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED" meme now....

Edited by Magic Murder Bag, 23 May 2014 - 04:33 PM.


#431 Kassatsu

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:41 PM

Quote

So my main statement is that YES we do want to make every effort to have a balanced game that represents OUR interpretation of what MechWarrior/Battletech should feel like.


Way to insult every single player that ever had the insolence to make a suggestion that wasn't already exactly in line with your plans, every single player to have ever touched a MechWarrior/Battletech game in the past, and everyone who has ever wanted even the slightest bit of direction change in the way this game is going. Particularly the paying players who are the reason you're even working on "YOUR" interpretation to begin with.

Now, if YOUR interpretation of what a MechWarrior/Battletech game should feel like is always piloting a Cataphract-3D, always avoiding the completely worthless energy/missile weapons and only following canon when it's convenient... Well, congratulations. You've far surpassed any expectations set forth in YOUR interpretation of what a MechWarrior/Battletech game should feel like. Now if you'll excuse me, I will be playing games that don't inexplicably break everything without so much as testing more than one possibility, and that are actually worth my time (and more importantly, my money).

EDIT because skimming thread:

View PostJohn Norad, on 23 May 2014 - 08:18 AM, said:

Actually I know a lot of people who know the game, most of them have played it, all of them have never set foot in these forums, and their opinion of MWO is not exactly positive.


I can think of four of my friends that have played the game, absolutely loathed it, its monetization scams and where it's headed, and quit faster than it took them to download the client. They are not dumb individuals, nor did they "never give the game a chance", they're all MechWarrior vets and huge gamers I've known for going on 10+ years each.

So for every 'me', I'd be willing to bet money that there's at least four others that tried the game and silently left.

Speaking of gambling, when do we get our random boxes (that cost no less than $5 each) that contain "guaranteed medium lasers with a 0.001% chance of a premium mech skin/hero mech/something you want!" and 99.999% of the time contain the least used consumable in the game?

Edited by Kassatsu, 23 May 2014 - 04:52 PM.


#432 The Wakelord

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:53 PM

View PostBongfu, on 23 May 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Sorry if I seem sour, but I wanted a game from a company that could deliver on their visions. If the company had trouble, they would be open and honest about it, not give us bull and excuses like "game developing is hard." Well no ****. If PGI is not up to the task I would rather see them drop the IP and let someone develop a mod like Living Legends than continue on the downward spiral they are falling into.


There is the concept of "always in beta" that is in vogue in Australian businesses at the moment. It's the concept that rather than release a perfect product, you release something 'good enough' & then improve on it. Now I know people will go 'boohoo but MWO isn't good enough and hasn't even been improved ever' but that's just the sourness talking. From what I've seen MWO has quite significantly improved since it was first released, but not in all the areas promised.

As I see PGI has 2 options.
1) Spend 5 years developing the game & release it only when amazing (like guild wars 2) - this requires the company to have a huge bank account as it is 5 years where the staff are given wages but the company earns zilch
2) Spend 1 year developing the game & then spend the next 4 improving it until it is amazing - this means a smaller company (with less staff or a smaller bank account) can still give their staff some cash & then earn cash to keep on paying staff.

Out of the 2 options, I assume we'd all prefer to play now rather than wait a few years (I know waiting for over 4 years for Blade & Soul MMO has made me gone from excited to "omg still not out, so over that BS")

#433 Kassatsu

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:57 PM

View PostThe Wakelord, on 23 May 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

2) Spend 1 year developing the game & then spend the next 4 improving it until it is amazing - this means a smaller company (with less staff or a smaller bank account) can still give their staff some cash & then earn cash to keep on paying staff.


4 years? I might be wrong here, but I'd call that being blindly optimistic, all things considered.

#434 The Wakelord

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:06 PM

View PostKassatsu, on 23 May 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:


4 years? I might be wrong here, but I'd call that being blindly optimistic, all things considered.

Missing the forest for the trees my sour friend

#435 Bongfu

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:06 PM

View PostKassatsu, on 23 May 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:


4 years? I might be wrong here, but I'd call that being blindly optimistic, all things considered.


Considering its been almost three years and we are just getting private matches and community warfare is still six months out at best.

#436 John Norad

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:07 PM

View PostGroovYChickeN, on 23 May 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

I support Niko's response. If you think you know better than PGI. Go make your own damn game and prove it. Otherwise.....

That's a stupid killer argument.
It doesn't take rocket science to see and understand that a lot of the ideas in the early stages of development, and some of the current suggestions, made by level headed, intelligent people, are far more sophisticated and better thought-out than what PGI has delivered in certain areas of the game.
And it doesn't take making one's own game to prove it.

As has been said already, backed by success and solid development achievements, you can afford to show some arrogance. It still won't make you popular. But at least it doesn't make you look like a moron.
PGI had all the up-front backing, support and goodwill you could wish for. And they messed it up. Is that the right position to laugh at their customers? I doubt it.

Arrogance, ignorance and stupidity are very close to each other.
Disregarding good quality player input because there's also poor quality player input is defintely closer to the latter.

So far PGI has pursued their vision of the game, and to be honest, apart from the visual impression and mech designs (which are awesome), that doesn't really prove them right. On the contrary, it more or less shows that some devs are resistant to advice, and stubborn. If one of them really thinks he compares to Satoshi Tajiri, add 'slightly' delusional.

View PostDymlos2003, on 23 May 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Then again /mwo is a cess pool of haters drowning in their hate and will never see any reason.

You mean people who indiscriminately generalize? Oh wait..

Edited by John Norad, 23 May 2014 - 06:05 PM.


#437 IceCase88

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:27 PM

View PostThe Wakelord, on 23 May 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

Really good job. Good answers, good game.

Q: Do you have any thoughts/plans on trying to win back some/any/all of the community who have become embittered/disenfranchised over time (for whatever reasons) with MWO/PGI?
A: Guys: When we started down this path it had been around 10 years since the last MW game was developed and believe me when I tell you, nobody was going to make one. PGI stepped up with our own money and livelihoods to take on the daunting task or working with a difficult IP with a clouded history to revive the brand, where no other companies were willing to go.

It has not been easy and we have not done a perfect job. But were continuing forward and if we take a step back we can realize were playing pretty darn fun MechWarrior game in 2014 with some advancements we have never seen in a MechWarrior game before AND the best is yet to come!

[/b]
Great answer from Russ. Now stop complaining you sour little poops.


Translation... no body wanted this franchise and we are giving it to you, you ungrateful people! Suck it up and stop whining. We will do it our way and you will like it.

#438 Butane9000

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 06:14 PM

I'm a little shocked by the lack of clan variants.

There available variants a currently in the time line available for the announced mechs:

Adder:
Prime - 2x ERPPC, Flamer (Sniper)
A - 2xLRM20, 2xSPL (LRM Support)
B - LBX5-AC, LPL, 2xER ML (Brawler, Hit and Run) NOT ANNOUNCED
C - 2xLRM15, NARC, ER Medium Laser (LRM Support, Scout) NOT ANNOUNCED
D - ER LL, UAC5, 2xSSRM2 (Sniper, Hit and Run)

Kit Fox:
Prime - LBX5-AC, ERLL, SPL, SSRM4 (Brawler, Sniper, Hit and Run)
A - Gauss Rifle, 2xERML (Sniper) NOT ANNOUNCED
B - UAC10, ERML, ERSL, SRM6 (Brawler, Hit and Run) NOT ANNOUNCED
C - ECM, 3xAMS, BAP, ERLL, SPL, 2xMGs (Sniper, Support, Scout) NOT ANNOUNCED
D - 2xLRM15, LRM5, NARC (Hit and Run, LRM Support)
S - 6xJJ, LPL, MPL, SPL, 2xMGs, SSRM4 (Brawler, Hit and Run)

Black Hawk:
Prime - 12xER ML (Brawler)
A - 2xAMS, 2xERPPC, ERML (Sniper) NOT ANNOUNCED
B - UAC5, LPL, ERSL, 2xMGs (Ranged Support, Scout)
C - Gauss Rifle, SPL, SRM4 (Sniper) NOT ANNOUNCED
D - LRM20, LBX5 (Fire Support) NOT ANNOUNCED
S - BAP, AMS, 6xMPL, 4xMGs (Brawler, Scout)

Stormcrow:
Prime - 3xERML, 2xERLL (Brawler, Fire Support)
A - LRM20, 2xSRM6, 4xERML (Brawler, Fire Support) NOT ANNOUNCED
B - UAC20, 6xERML (Brawler) NOT ANNOUNCED
C - LBX10-AC, LPL, 2xMPL (Brawler)
D - 2xLRM20, 2xSRM2, NARC (LRM Support)

Summoner:
Prime - ERPPC, LBX10-AC, LRM15 (Varied)
A - Gauss Rifle, LPL, SRM6 (Sniper, Brawler) NOT ANNOUNCED
B - 2xLRM20, 2xSRM4, NARC, AMS (LRM Support)
C - UAC20, ERLL, SSRM6, ERSL (Brawler) NOT ANNOUNCED
D - 2xERLL, 2xERML, 2xMGs, Targeting Computer (Sniper)

Timber Wolf:
Prime - 2xERLL, 2xERML, MPL, 2xLRM20, 2xMGs (Varied)
A - 2xERPPC, 3xMPL, ERSL, SSRM6 (Fire Support) NOT ANNOUNCED
B - Gauss Rifle, LRM10, Artemis IV, LPL, SPL, SRM4 (Varied) NOT ANNOUNCED
C - 2xERLL, UAC5, 2xLRM15, ERML, AMS (Fire Support)
D - 2xERPPC, 4xSSRM6, ERSL (Sniper, Brawler) NOT ANNOUNCED
S - 5xJJ, LPL, 2xMPL, 4xSRM6, 2xMGs (Brawler)

Warhawk:
Prime - 4xERPPC, LRM10, Targeting Computer (Fire Support)
A - 2xERLL, LBX10-AC, SSRM6, LRM15 (Vaired)
B - Gauss Rifle, 3xERML, ERSL, 2xSRM6, NARC (Varied)
C - 2xERPPC, 2xLPL, Flamer, Targeting Computer (Fire Support, Brawler) NOT ANNOUNCED

Dire Wolf:
Prime - 4xERLL, 4xERML, 2xUAC5, LRM10 (Juggernaut)
A - AMS, Gauss Rifle, 3xLPL, 2xSSRM6 (Brawler)
B - 4xUAC2, LBX10-AC, 2xERPPC, 2xMPL, ERSL (Fire Support, Sniper)
S - LBX20-AC, LPL, 5xMPL, 2xSSRM4, 2xMGs (Brawler) NOT ANNOUNCED
W - Gauss Rifle, ERLL, LRM20, UAC20, ERSL, 2xMPL (Varied) NOT ANNOUNCED

So the better question is why were some variants scrubbed? I can figure a couple being not that different which is always the case. But others? Not so much.

#439 Threat Doc

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 06:25 PM

View PostDymlos2003, on 23 May 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

What? I would do the same? Some of the ideas these people throw out are just ridiculous. Don't try to act all high and mighty. I'm sure you do it to, actually you guys do it all the time with PGI.
Despite your 1102 post count, I've NEVER seen your name on these forums, EVER. That means we don't travel in the same circles. Until you go back and read everything I've written -and some of it is admittedly negative- you have no right to speak to me like this. I have been a long-time supporter of PGI, because I love the BattleTech/MechWarrior universe, not because of the company that took a decade to release Duke Nukem Forever, or put out a CRAPPY transformers game, or really crappy racing games. Since October 2011, when I signed up on the first day this game was announced, PGI have come a LONG way in their capabilities, and they have produced something I believe is, perhaps, the absolute closest representation to the tabletop game they could get. There are elements of the former MechWarrior franchise games, maybe even a few things from MechCommander, the Light's turn entire too quickly to offset inertia, and ECM is terribly OP, but otherwise, this game is the representation of BattleTech I have always looked for. Before that, no game other than MechWarrior 3 could be used to compare to the tabletop experience, or the dreams I had as a kid and, admittedly, sometimes as an adult. My vision of what BattleTech would look like in a computer game is pretty much matched by this game; the fact I can play it well on the crappy hardware I have, is just icing on the cake.

However, the ideas I give, freely, the work I have done within the BattleTech and MechWarrior universe since early 1985, that I have shared, freely, multiple times in these forums, the money that I have spent, small as it may be in comparison to what some folks have put into the game, but still easily three times more than I've ever paid for a non-subscription game, and more than I paid for World of Warcraft -when I was playing that-, and the sheer amount of man-hours I have put into the development of my mercenary unit, deserve better than "we laugh at your stupid ideas". I have paid my dues, I have earned my way, and yes, Goddamnit, what I say should be taken better heed of!

My statement, which you so blithely knock away as my being arrogant, or acting all high and mighty, was not about any of that, at all. It was shock in the way Niko presented what was written, no matter how long ago that may have been. So much so that, frankly, I didn't believe and, until Niko explains himself, I don't believe it.

Edited by Kay Wolf, 23 May 2014 - 06:27 PM.


#440 Deathlike

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 06:29 PM

View PostButane9000, on 23 May 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

So the better question is why were some variants scrubbed? I can figure a couple being not that different which is always the case. But others? Not so much.


If you refer to the Phoenix Pack "variant update", that is what most likely going to happen in some future. They'll just add them in as a supplement months after the C-bill variants are all available.





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