244 replies to this topic

[GLIZZY GULPER]

Here's another post about how community warfare has been here all along and that PGI was right as well all along: CW would be out in 90 days.

Edited by Tal Ravis, 28 May 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[TheMagician]

GaussDragon, on 28 May 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

It's full of people who want to play. r/mwo is a wellspring of former but yet (still, amazingly) potential customers who are hoping PGI can make some basic changes with A) balance (this is the overwhelming issue that you see over and over) and communication. If this thread is any indication, point B seems to be failing pursuit.

I don't think that we'll see a return of most of you. I think you either accept that this game is going to move at a snail's pace, including new content, fixing map bugs that have existed for a year, and weapon balance issues, or you quit. The game is still enjoyable for me, as it requires solid team play and player ability to move and aim effectively. It's a great frustration, definitely, as I see so many lost opportunities for this game. I see developer priorities misplaced, I continually wonder how this game is surviving, and wonder why I try so hard to create a competitive scene when there are games out there with real $$ to be made if you have the skills. But damn, its still the most enjoyable game I can find.

[John Wolf]

Everyone makes mistakes, even people who have jobs which involve a high amount of dealing with people.

I doubt that anyone on this forum has had a perfect life and never done something poorly. Those mistakes are how we learn, but lets not continue to bash someone for a mistake. Point out the mistake, and hope that the lesson is learned.

Some people are unhappy with the game, some people are unhappy with other people.. focus on what you have the power to effect. Provide constructive input, be a community.

EVERYONE makes mistakes.

Thanks Clavell for a calm and well worded post.. there are 10 pages of posts in here that I'm having a hard time getting through myself. We need a little more positive.. someone release an urbanmech already.

[Kaemon]

lockwoodx, on 28 May 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

I'm glad you got this off your chest, it has been a long time coming. The game is making steady progress and it's time to address the ugly side of the community for what they've degenerated into, entitled children who are upset you don't hold them in higher esteem than the rest of the silent majority. They are the classic example of "special snowflakes", both bitter and jaded. I understand you let your human side get the better of you in the heat of passionate discourse, and understand their outrage of the behavior of a professional that represents a company. Now that your head is no longer buried in the sand and you've stood up to bullies, I hope the community lends some respect for having the brass to speak your mind.

They get away with murder bashing PGI the way they do, and I totally understand why they're confined to Reddit where they can use mob mentality tactics to strong arm and distort the truth. Sites that use voting systems are subject to manipulation via scripts, multiple accounts, etc and are a bullies paradise for making it seem like the majority agrees with their narrow viewpoints. It's no surprise they are beginning to pile on the hate here too, because it takes the heat off their own sadistic actions. Best of luck with this situation. I take no issue with anything that was said and your apology letter was appropriate imo.

Cheers

I think this has been hashed on enough.

I agree, UNLEASH THE PEACE URBIE!!!

Edited by Kaemon, 28 May 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Maybe you should post on mwomercs, the website of the game your company reps for, and not the marxist pseudo intellectual ****hub that is reddit, Niko.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 28 May 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[Roadbeer]

John Wolf, on 28 May 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

Everyone makes mistakes, even people who have jobs which involve a high amount of dealing with people.

I doubt that anyone on this forum has had a perfect life and never done something poorly. Those mistakes are how we learn, but lets not continue to bash someone for a mistake. Point out the mistake, and hope that the lesson is learned.

Some people are unhappy with the game, some people are unhappy with other people.. focus on what you have the power to effect. Provide constructive input, be a community.

EVERYONE makes mistakes.

Thanks Clavell for a calm and well worded post.. there are 10 pages of posts in here that I'm having a hard time getting through myself. We need a little more positive.. someone release an urbanmech already.

That would be great, but first someone has to acknowledge that they actually MADE a mistake.

Doubling down and equivocating is not acknowledgment of a mistake, it's reinforcement of your position.

Which is pretty much par for the course with PGI. Not only did Russ make the island comment, a few months later he doubles down on it claiming it "Is now part of Battletech Lore", only after a year has he marginally acknowledged that the comment MIGHT have been a mistake (while saying he's had "Good fun" with it).

This isn't new territory here, this is SOP, every bad idea implemented and every communication failure just stubbornly continues to be embraced by PGI. It's somewhat like a pilot trying to correct a damaged plane, and rather than eject, rides it into the ground like a dart.

[SQUIRRELLL]

John Wolf, on 28 May 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

EVERYONE makes mistakes.

Thanks Clavell for a calm and well worded post.. there are 10 pages of posts in here that I'm having a hard time getting through myself. We need a little more positive.. someone release an urbanmech already.

I think Niko needs to lead by example. He is a part of why the community is so toxic. He has been negative and condescending to his player base. Notice how r/mwo praises Karl and Fox for there honest opinions and great work they are doing? Niko on the hand is jaded, and has fixed views that will confinue to divide the community. His bias is evident in the posts he's made here, and has no intent on mending the community but to divide it further.

[Creovex]

Roadbeer, on 28 May 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

That would be great, but first someone has to acknowledge that they actually MADE a mistake.

Doubling down and equivocating is not acknowledgment of a mistake, it's reinforcement of your position.

Which is pretty much par for the course with PGI. Not only did Russ make the island comment, a few months later he doubles down on it claiming it "Is now part of Battletech Lore", only after a year has he marginally acknowledged that the comment MIGHT have been a mistake (while saying he's had "Good fun" with it).

This isn't new territory here, this is SOP, every bad idea implemented and every communication failure just stubbornly continues to be embraced by PGI. It's somewhat like a pilot trying to correct a damaged plane, and rather than eject, rides it into the ground like a dart.

Seriously, go find a new game. Everyone is annoyed by delays but guess what? You will get it when they are damn good and ready to give it to you. Otherwise, walk and move on. I understanding wanting it to be a great game but wanting everything now and yesterday is unrealistic and childish....

Every other post I think of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory from when I was a kid (the good version with Gene Wilder) and keep thinking I want all of you whiners to go for that golden egg.... It is one thing to give constructive feedback, another to disagree, and then to be completely obsessive forum trolls who NEVER finds anything good in the game....

If it's that bad, go find a new game.

[Gorgo7]

Roadbeer, on 28 May 2014 - 08:34 AM, said:

That would be great, but first someone has to acknowledge that they actually MADE a mistake.

So, from what I've read of your posts you have been working up to admitting your mistake of changing sides these last four months...
Good on you.

All is forgiven.

[CeeKay Boques]

LakeDaemon, on 28 May 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

In the closed beta days we used to discuss Entitlement. Everything that is happening here is entitlement run amok.

PGI needs to get out of the business of trying to please everyone with friendly dev interaction (rewarding rampant entitlement) because it just feeds the crowd of vocal griefers. A lot of "island" comments and perceived blow offs from PGI occur because any opinion they give can be taken at least two ways (politics 101) and used against them by detractors. PGI is having to defend comments, restate opinions, apologize etc.. then they are over extended.

PGI needs to close their PR doors, stand their ground, limit their communication to the general public with well constructed, informative announcements rather than apologetic, peace brokering trying to separate themselves from the haters. Thats an impossible battle even for a huge game developer much less a small team like PGI and this current dev model.

Premium players should have a separate section in the forum where their posts are responded to with more consideration and frequency. Non premium players should be free to post in all the other sections as it is now and should be responded to when reply or moderation is needed.. not demanded. This forum is wide open and at the mercy of griefers. Devs and mods shouldn't have to dance to all the gun shots at their feet. If a player wants their opinion to be considered separately from the tide of mostly hate posts, a premium account is not an unreasonable requirement.

Yep I said it. Let the flaming begin. btw, Im not a premium member.

If they closed their PR doors, many would just walk away. In the argument, there is hope for change. Behind the steel curtain, they have to PRODUCE. And we would only be able to judge them on their content and their timely release of it.

Maybe you're right. Maybe that's better. But it doesn't LOOK better.

[LastKhan]

Hey Niko lets real talk,

See, from what ive read so far here is you probably shouldnt have went on a tangent of saying every last bit of that rant saying people were banned and not seen as customers (Yes, i know you didnt mean everyone who lurks there.). All that needed to be said was "MWO is no longer posting to r/mwo and will now just posting to r/hpgoutreach." No need to smack the lurking troll bee hive of r/mwo which is now festering here.

I could care less about this Reddit feud all together, but a little more professionalism was needed here honestly. (Funny it just lets me know that actual community warfare is alive and well. heh.)

What i would like more as well as most people on here is you posting all the goodie info here before Reddit or twitter. You have innerspherenews for that dont ya?

Someone watching from the sidelines ~Khan

[DeathlyEyes]

The thing that confuses me is a lot of the questions raised on /r/mwo were asked for quite some time now. The way they have been asked recently has gotten quite hostile, only because it seemed these questions had gone ignored. I do not go on /r/mwo very often if ever but have just recently read a rather new thread Victor Morison started that seemed quite civil that seems like the latest exchange between that community and Niko. I don't fully understand what lead to this whole melt down judging by its content. http://www.reddit.co..._summon_a_niko/

I know for fact that Ghost Heat has been a hot topic (no pun intended) since its creation. So its understandable that these discussions or lack thereof could cause a meltdown.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

LakeDaemon, on 28 May 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

In the closed beta days we used to discuss Entitlement. Everything that is happening here is entitlement run amok.

PGI needs to get out of the business of trying to please everyone with friendly dev interaction (rewarding rampant entitlement) because it just feeds the crowd of vocal griefers. A lot of "island" comments and perceived blow offs from PGI occur because any opinion they give can be taken at least two ways (politics 101) and used against them by detractors. PGI is having to defend comments, restate opinions, apologize etc.. then they are over extended.

PGI needs to close their PR doors, stand their ground, limit their communication to the general public with well constructed, informative announcements rather than apologetic, peace brokering trying to separate themselves from the haters. Thats an impossible battle even for a huge game developer much less a small team like PGI and this current dev model.

Premium players should have a separate section in the forum where their posts are responded to with more consideration and frequency. Non premium players should be free to post in all the other sections as it is now and should be responded to when reply or moderation is needed.. not demanded. This forum is wide open and at the mercy of griefers. Devs and mods shouldn't have to dance to all the gun shots at their feet. If a player wants their opinion to be considered separately from the tide of mostly hate posts, a premium account is not an unreasonable requirement.

Yep I said it. Let the flaming begin. btw, Im not a premium member.

Neither am I but this might make me consider being one.

[TKSax]

Barantor, on 28 May 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

/r/mwo folks are upset because they aren't all mechwarriorbuddah although it seems to them they got thrown into that same boat. They are justifiably upset because they don't deserve that criticism. Regardless if they have negative feelings about the game or not, they aren't all evil trolls out for blood from PGI.

I would be one of those, I still play the game, I don't give any money (any more), I give help when possible on r/mwo when new players come there, and like most people there I tell them to download it and try it, but don't on spend any money on the game for a while, so you can make and educated decision with your money.

SQUIRRELLL, on 28 May 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

I think Niko needs to lead by example. He is a part of why the community is so toxic. He has been negative and condescending to his player base. Notice how r/mwo praises Karl and Fox for there honest opinions and great work they are doing? Niko on the hand is jaded, and has fixed views that will confinue to divide the community. His bias is evident in the posts he's made here, and has no intent on mending the community but to divide it further.

Niko,
Remeber this..
http://mwomercs.com/...49#entry3043649

May you should adhere to it, and I know reddit is not an official platform, but you are a PGI Official and identified as such there.
This all started because Niko said Admittedly, we do more face palming than laughing, because we do want to try to explain to players why certain ideas just won't work, rather than leaving them in the dark" guess what Niko a whole lot of people are face palming this whole episode you created/suggested.

Edited by TKSax, 28 May 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[Khavi Vetali]

SLDF DeathlyEyes, on 28 May 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

... I do not go on /r/mwo very often if ever but have just recently read a rather new thread Victor Morison started that seemed quite civil that seems like the latest exchange between that community and Niko. I don't fully understand what lead to this whole melt down judging by its content. http://www.reddit.co..._summon_a_niko/

Link originates from r/outreachhpg, not r/mwo. If Morison is not civil there, his post wouldn't even exist. He is going to put PoliteVictorMorison out of a job.

For what it's worth, you either have fun playing the game, or you leave. If you feel so burned by what MWO is that you troll, threaten people, and actively try to harm the current development of the game, your priorities need some evaluating. The moment MWO stops being an enjoyable experience for myself, I'll go play something else. So far, so good.

Edited by Khavi Vetali, 28 May 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[Innocent]

I believe the real problem here was giving an outside forum power. They have given this power by answering posts there that they ignore on the official PGI forums. If they would be active here then it would pull the teeth of the haters elsewhere. This forum can be moderated but will only work if PGI staff is active on it.

Give us regular updates. Post screen shots of what you are working on (clan mechs in action with current IS mechs). Drop hints about the direction you are going with the game.

[DeathlyEyes]

Khavi Vetali, on 28 May 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Link originates from r/outreachhpg, not r/mwo. If Morison is not civil there, his post wouldn't even exist. He is going to put PoliteVictorMorison out of a job.

Either way those questions he asked were asked many times over since ghost heat was introduced with no clear answer. After awhile that really can jade people into saying bad things. I am not saying this is an excuse for bad behavior though. I am just saying its a two way street and people don't usually just behave badly for the sake of behaving badly. In this case I think it was a lack of attention.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

lockwoodx, on 28 May 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

I'm glad you got this off your chest, it has been a long time coming. The game is making steady progress and it's time to address the ugly side of the community for what they've degenerated into, entitled children who are upset you don't hold them in higher esteem than the rest of the silent majority.

Kaemon, on 28 May 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

I think this has been hashed on enough.

I agree it's time to get back to enjoying the game. I've spent more time on the forums lately due to being stuck with work than playing so I felt like throwing my hat into the arena and taking a few bullies down a peg. Either they will grow up and tone it down a notch or continue to drive players out while they watch the world burn. I'll just get in drops while we can and hope for the best at this point. The forums need a Tsunami to clean out all the haters at this point so I'm gonna turn my Stalker into an Ark.

Edited by lockwoodx, 28 May 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[InRev]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 28 May 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

Maybe you should post on mwomercs, the website of the game your company reps for, and not the marxist pseudo intellectual ****hub that is reddit, Niko.

I have no clue wtf is going on, but this post needs no context.

Do this, for the love of Christ. Seriously, Reddit is just bad, regardless of the clique to which you want to appeal.

[Name140704]

TheMagician, on 28 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Most of the people who post on /mwo no longer play, and many haven't for at least a year. It's rarely used for discussion of current topics, except when it comes to bashing. So I see no reason for PGI/IGP to support it, and that their recommendation that devs avoid using it, is not surprising.

This was the main page just prior to Niko' professional blunders:

There is some stuff in here that doesn't qualify for that description, but a decent portion of the submissions do. From the front page:

• Heatmap Helper & API - Informational post from PGI staff, says discussion is on outreach
  
• MW:LivingLegends Night - Not related to MWO
  
• Some of you might help here too? - x-post to outreach
  
• Faction Tourny Winners - Informational post from PGI staff, links to forums
  
• Apparently we are all banned - You're here.
  
• Cut your losses, don't come here says PGI - qualifies for the descriptor
  
• Solaris VII combat - Links back to forums
  
• JR7-D Build Help - An actual factual post! Quality discussion, too.
  
• Does any own more than three variants - Actual post, not much discussion, just people replying with what they have/do WRT variants
  
• MWO: Dire Wolf - PGI screenies of the new mech
  
• Help me summon Niko - Crosspost to outreach trying to get attention to some issues, some ok discussion
  
• 14 years experience - ******** on old PGI works
  
• Heavy Gear Pledges - Link to a game not related to MWO
  
• Log in, my free day - Bitching that the 24hours of free premium time activated immediately
  
• LIES.TXT - Complaints about how PGI fails to deliver based on stated deadlines, something we've heard a lot
  
• Tourney Double Header - announcement of some private matches
  
• PGI progress report - links back to Outreach, which then links to the MWO forums, again more complaining about failure to meet deadlines.
  
• I wish MWOs mechs had this level of detail - Unhappiness with artistic design and compromises made to support low end machines (I also have issues with this)
  
• Positive look at MWO since the AMA - Sarcastic response to the AMA
  
• I am loving the free stuff - Backhanded comments like "these hack frauds are finally trying to treat customers like they give a ****", while "making a positive post"
  
• I think PGI fired most of their art team - Complaints about map/level release schedules
  
• Russ Bullock Ass Me Anything - I... don't need to say anything here, the title says it all.
  
• Free Day of Premium Time - link back to the MWO forums notifying users of their free day
  
• Before I dive into MWO, what are the biggest... - An actual factual post. I feel sorry for the guy, with multi-paragraph detailed responses of what people don't like about the game and/or its developers. Some helpful replies, none-the-less
  
• MWO is a successful title - Poking fun at how long it is taking to unlock the "social rewards"

You don't know everything, plenty there still play.