60 replies to this topic

[Biaxialrain]

It's called cover and concealment, look it up.

Players that feel the need to break cover and die b/c of some ego or machismo are fools.

Fast lights break up the enemy formation, run interference and spot, LRMs soften them up and then it's on.

I can't tell you how many times I've been the last man standing with 4-6 kills. I've had 7 kill, 1100 damage games as the last man standing b/c my teammates were pugs/noobs/scrubs, or whatever you call them, with no patience that walked out to trade damage for damage and lost.

I watch the guys that scream "push" within the first 5 minutes of a match, they are usually the first to go.

Get some patience, learn how to play a tactical game and use strategy.

[Veranova]

If you're in an Assault your W/L is more important than your K/D

If you do even 300 damage, get stripped and die, but your team goes on to win that match. It's thanks to you and your ability to absorb fire while dishing it out.

[Ursh]

Biaxialrain, on 29 May 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

It's called cover and concealment, look it up.

Players that feel the need to break cover and die b/c of some ego or machismo are fools.

Fast lights break up the enemy formation, run interference and spot, LRMs soften them up and then it's on.

I can't tell you how many times I've been the last man standing with 4-6 kills. I've had 7 kill, 1100 damage games as the last man standing b/c my teammates were pugs/noobs/scrubs, or whatever you call them, with no patience that walked out to trade damage for damage and lost.

I watch the guys that scream "push" within the first 5 minutes of a match, they are usually the first to go.

Get some patience, learn how to play a tactical game and use strategy.

And you cleaned up on the mechs they engaged, congrats. That's definitely a tactic.

I'm curious, what do you do in games where most of your team waits behind cover with you? The enemies, not counting locusts and commandos who screw up their legs tripping over pebbles, aren't going to kill themselves or strip their own armor.
I've seen some guides from guys who won the tournaments, and who are a lot better known than you. A.B.F. (Always Be Firing) They rack up 5+ kills and 1000+ damage by actively finding mechs to shoot the hell out of, rather than getting a bunch of free damage from destroying components that were hanging by a thread because some dead teammate was nice enough to pre-shred them for you.

[Biaxialrain]

I am always engaging.

If not for your team and teamwork then you don't get a win or good numbers no matter what.

I do it smartly, continuously move and make use of cover, not out in the open where I take fire from multiple shooters and/or LRMs.

I see too much tunnel vision and players exposing themselves during a fight while focusing on one mech.

I don't mop up, I'm always shooting. One lone pilot against 3-7 shredded mechs isn't going to last long regardless.

I've watched entire lances, usually a premade Alpha lance, try and stay out of the fight and mop up, it never works. They get a kill or two and then die like they left their team to do.

[Ursh]

Biaxialrain, on 29 May 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

I am always engaging.

If not for your team and teamwork then you don't get a win or good numbers no matter what.

I do it smartly, continuously move and make use of cover, not out in the open where I take fire from multiple shooters and/or LRMs.

I see too much tunnel vision and players exposing themselves during a fight while focusing on one mech.

I don't mop up, I'm always shooting. One lone pilot against 3-7 shredded mechs isn't going to last long regardless.

I've watched entire lances, usually a premade Alpha lance, try and stay out of the fight and mop up, it never works. They get a kill or two and then die like they left their team to do.

Okay, that makes more sense. Your first post made it sound like you never jump out from behind cover, which isn't what you meant it to sound like.

[Wrathful-Khan]

Nobody is suggesting making a suicidal run directly at the machine gun nest, in the open, straight through the minefield.

You never want to expose yourself to more than one mech at a time. But if you know where a large number of enemies are, then you know where a large number of enemies aren't.

Let that sink in.

Using this knowledge (and cover) you can approach the enemy from a safe, but unexpected direction. When you do make a contact (if you've done it right, he'll be looking the other way) you come out just enough to engage the one mech at a time.

[mogs01gt]

I totally agree with the issues brought up in this thread.

There is another side to it, I hate the players that charge ahead and die in the first 2 or 3 minutes of the match and do less than 100dmg.

[ktKAPS]

This is too funny as I ran into this the other day and maybe I just got lucky but I managed to get close to 700 damage done along with 5 kills and each person on my time did not break 100 or even manage to get 1 kill across 11 guys. We still lost but I was simply amazed this happened.

Maybe I got lucky or stole kills from softened up targets but it still blew my mind.

The other I love is when I do initiate a charge at the right time, everyone still stays back and watches me die. If I see somebody going for it, I follow right along and die with honor or maybe just stupidity, lol.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Some of you (not surprising from the Steiners who are some of the worst tesm playerd on the field) are such pompous wankers. Really. The inflated ego and sense of self. I wouod hate to have you on a team with me.

I do believe sometimes assaults should be first, but sometimes it should be faster lights that csn turn an enemy around or cause disruption as the larger mechs plod out. Sometimes patience is the key and your impatient gotta make something happen is the reason your team moves out of position and yoUr team loses.

If your team loses, the team loses, regardless of individual numbers and if you arent taking the time to elevate your team members (who may not know better) you arent a great leader... arent even a great warrior... often times those players are 'meta humpin' surats who think the gsme is a finessed COD.

To those whom I lead and sometimes grow impatient witH I apologize. I will do a better job of not being the kind of teammate that these freebirth mech drivers are.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Sometimes as well a frontal assault does not work and you have to backtrack, retreat and come from a different angle (protecting the rear from a counter attack). I tend to like a leapfrog approach where faster movers get out first, Set up cover, and then let the big guys move back with the more manuevarable guys tsking angeled shots of protection. But there are multiple ways of doing a retreat.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

This is why I posted in that thread asking what we respect, that I respect people who don't play scared.

Even when i'm in an LRM mech, if I need to push, I will push.

I really hate people who hide for no apparent reason.

[Nyte Kitsune]

Archie4Strings, on 28 May 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

i agree! Especially the Assault Pilots often dont see/know/understand that they should be the first ones in line and still stop immediately once the first AC hits them somewhere....
You cannot do damage without taking some yourself!!

Usually i try to lead a charge too, even if i dont pilot a frontline-assault-brawler or something similar. Still better than just to wait until the match is lost.

I just think that the very most of the Players dont read the Forum or new Players help and though they will probably never, or just MUUUCH slower, become a good Pilot who knows what to do and when to do it!

But, just to balance it all a bit. There are good matches too

Actually the "Assault" pilots shouldn't be the first in. Typically Lights should be the first in to "Scout out" enemy positions and take a few shots if they can, then withdraw to the safety of the larger mechs or hide somewhere until they can strike from behind or where the enemy is distracted. Mediums are Better Armored and Armed than lights and are best used to make quick strikes then falling back while Heavies engage.

1: Most assaults lack the speed and maneuverability to "Get in first"
2: Mechwarrior is "Role Warfare" Light, Mediums and Heavies are faster and more mobile, Assault were intended to "Finish the job" being built to take hits from already damaged mechs that made strikes against the enemy.
3: Yes, Assaults tend to have a lot of armor, but it isn't there to wade into the start of a battle, only an idiot in an Assault will do that "Unless" the allied mechs are already engaged in combat.

I do however agree that someone has to lead the charge on occasion to get the team moving, I've done this in both my Shadowhawk and my Atlas (Which usually dies right away due to lack of the ability to withdraw from said charge), but some sacrifices have to be made sometimes.

To the guy I quoted, not to sound mean, but really, learn what mechs are for which roles. Few assaults are built to lead a charge as anyone who has piloted an Atlas would know, we don't get anywhere fast, but when we do get there, things die.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Flaming oblivion, on 28 May 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

No kidding. And I've been in the 12-2 wipes on both sides generally if I get a kill or both idc. The tards are only hurting my w/l.

I have played along side of you FO and the above is an absolute indication of how bad of a team player you csn be. We were in a gsme recently and your actions and behavior was to the point where it made me not want to support you because of the brazen and brash want to head straight up against the force we were opposing... no finesse, no overall tactics and at the end the slogging of the people you played along Side with.

Sadly i feel your attituDe typifies Other steiners though i realize thst there are quite a few excellent steiners who have an appreciation from lore and dont have the overall bad teammate attitude steinerd on the field seem to have. An over inflated sense of self ability compared to everyone else even though the house can be some of the most gimmicky In their attempts to win.

FO I want to thank you. Its you and your ilk that get me riled up. That makes me want to forget about how Ive met Michelle Obama, the president of Taiwan, been a Fulbright member or have my picture in the NYC subway system. Id gladly take team playing tards against twelve yous after practice and time to gel together as I feel (just an opinion)
that personality types like yours are toxic to team cohesion and as you grow to be bested you will blame the ,tards, on the team and will fall apart. Ive seen it so many times before.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Btw, i apologize for using the term should. Simetimes i feel it is best would be phrase to use.

Edited by Daisu Saikoro, 29 May 2014 - 09:34 AM.

[Jman5]

I know no one wants to hear this, but your best bet is to simply bring long range weapons to pug matches. Particularly if you're lone wolfing.

I will happily push the enemy when the time is right, but you just can't rely on 11 strangers to catch the opportunity and follow you into a brawl. For your own sanity, it's better to have a loadout that compensates for pug cowardice and indecision.

If you really insist on making decisive flanks and short range fights work consistently, you really need a 4-man of similar loadouts. Pugs are much more willing to follow when they see 4 guys pushing than they are if it's just you.

Also for god sakes, you have to communicate with your team if you want to make a push work. Way too often I see a guy charge in out of no where and then scream at the team for not following him. Maybe it was a great time to push, but I didn't see what he saw. Buddy, I had no idea you were gearing up for a push until your mech looked more like swiss cheese. Give me some advanced warning because I'm not psychic.

[Zerberus]

"Assaults first" is total BS in 99% of all tactical situations, and anybody with even a modicum of knowledge of warfare knows it.

Do heavy cruisers spearhead seaborne engagements, or is it destroyers and submarines?
Do you spearhead air conflicts with a spectre gunship, or with Raptors?
On land, do you send in the tanks first, or do you send in fast, mobile infantry first to prepare for teh armored assault?

I`ll give you a hint: the correct answers are all on the same side of the commas.
AFAIK the only scenario where sending the very biggest guns in first ever "worked" is simulations of all out nuclear warfare. "Worked" in this being defined as "the other side was annihilated and at least 1,000,000 of our entire race survived in some way, shape, or form."

In the type of conflicts depicted in this game, the best tactic is generally to first send out the fast harassersto scout and terrorize the enemy as well as break down morale and supply routes, support them wwith long range fire, then engage with the main strike force, and only then do you commit the heaviest, most valuable, but also most easily destroyed (and very happily targeted) assets.

In MWO, that means that when everyone is already occupied with stomping out fires (brawling with mediums and heavies, chasing lights, trying to get away from lights,....), that`s when the assaults should come around the corner and create a panic that results in a massacre

Edited by Zerberus, 29 May 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Zerberus, on 29 May 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Assaults first is total BS in 99% of all tactical situations, and anybody with even a modicum of knowledge of warfare knows it.

In teh type of conflicts depictid in this game, the best tactic is generally to first send out the Fast harasserss to scout and terrorize the enemy and break down morale and supply routes, then the main strike force and only then do you commit the heaviest, most valuable, but also most easily destroyed (and very happily targeted) assets.

In MWO, that means that when everyone is already occupied with stomping out fires (brawling with mediums and heavies, chasing lights, trying to get away from lights,....), that`s when the assaults should come around the corner and create a panic that results in a massacre

Which would be well and good if we had some kind of dynamic game with supply lines and assets.

It would also be great if having your Mediums go in, didn't end with them getting FLD'd to death in 5 seconds.

One of the reasons pushes have to start with either Lights or Assaults is because TTK is insane. You either need lights who can't get hit or assault who can take a few shots.

This is also why poptarting is used so much.

[xTrident]

Biaxialrain, on 29 May 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

It's called cover and concealment, look it up.

Players that feel the need to break cover and die b/c of some ego or machismo are fools.

Fast lights break up the enemy formation, run interference and spot, LRMs soften them up and then it's on.

I can't tell you how many times I've been the last man standing with 4-6 kills. I've had 7 kill, 1100 damage games as the last man standing b/c my teammates were pugs/noobs/scrubs, or whatever you call them, with no patience that walked out to trade damage for damage and lost.

I watch the guys that scream "push" within the first 5 minutes of a match, they are usually the first to go.

Get some patience, learn how to play a tactical game and use strategy.

Exactly. It's much easier to kill the enemy by surprise attack, or even better from behind than heads up directly at them... in practically every game I've ever played.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Zerberus, on 29 May 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

On land, do you send in the tanks first, or do you send in fast, mobile infantry first to prepare for teh armored assault?

You send in the tanks first, in an armored spearhead, and you bring infantry in to follow up and exploit the breach. Or at least that's how it worked in Wars I and II, which are far closer to Battlemech combat than modern warfare is.

[Ihasa]

Hm, being one of the assault pilots that has no problem leading a charge, I'm learning quite a bit from this thread and will have to temper my aggressiveness further.