95 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Working with what we already have in the game, the easiest solution is to add ghost heat to Gauss. Give Gauss a ghost heat of 1, with a penalty of like +30-40 heat for firing more than one, so multiple Gauss rifles/PPCs cant be fired at the same time. That would prevent dualgauss/dualppc or triplegauss shenanigans. And mechs that only have dual gauss should theoretically still work fine.

But I see that purely as a stopgap measure. At some point in the future ghost heat needs to be removed and the weapon/heatsystem needs to be completely redesigned/rebalanced with the ultimate goal of bringing pinpoint damage under control.

Edited by Khobai, 28 May 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Foxwalker, on 28 May 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

If you can show me where you saw that, cool. As before I don't disagree that 45, 50 or greater Alphas are bad. I sometimes run a Commando, and have experienced the Dual Gauss or Dual AC20 instant death it causes with a single shot.

I cannot image PGI allowing that happening long with configurations that could do that to nearly every Mech in the game.

Thanks!

I couldn't imagine that PGI would introduce 3pv and ghost heat, ignore Convergence being an issue, not deploy cw for two years, etc...

Believe me the balance crew at PGI could and probably will ignore this potential issue like so:

Then they will deploy "ghost heat Clan edition" or some such silliness and it will


Save your self the headache, don't assume there is any problem or element they will push off or ignore. for a while.

[Jonathan Paine]

Gauss thought:
1 x Gauss: Halve the current charge time, triple the current "stay charged" time
2 x Gauss: Remains "as is"
- Only 1 other weapon can be fired while the gauss is charging, and for 0.5 seconds after
3 x Gauss: Double the current charge time, halve the current "stay charged" time
- No other weapon can be fired while the triple gauss is charging, and for 0.5 seconds after
4 x Gauss: Quadruple the current charge time, no "stay charged" time
- No other weapon can be fired, mech automatically shuts down for 5 seconds after fire due to immense power drain


Mental note to self: probably beyond PGI programming ability

[Foxwalker]

Khobai, on 28 May 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

The Mauler is an upcoming 90 ton IS assault mech. It can do builds like x2 Gauss/x2 PPC or x4 AC5/x2 PPC. Again both these builds exceed the commonly accepted balance threshold of 30 pinpoint damage.

Can you show me where you saw that the Mauler is slated to be introduced? I see a lot of posts where people are asking for it but nothing here that says it is coming. One of my favorite mechs too. I would love to see it and hope they find a way to balance it.

A lot of us have high hopes for upcoming mechs and often we are disapointed. The Orion for one, was my fav in MW3, but while it is an OK mech in this game, it is not nearly as good as I would have liked.

Who would have thought the Jenner would be such a beast? It was junk in TT.

[Khobai]

lol ghost charge

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Felio, on 28 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

30 pinpoint damage at short, medium or long range with the fastest projectile in the game is too much.

Yes, gauss rifles weigh a lot, so it doesn't leave much room for other things. Yes, it is low DPS if you get up and brawl with them. It doesn't matter. Getting nailed with 30 instant damage to a single location without making any mistakes -- because be honest, the first shot a sniper gets is usually a free one -- is a very negative experience.

There is plenty of time while one gauss rifle is cooling down to charge and fire the other. It would still be very effective for sniping. It just wouldn't have that "I got ganked by a cheap shot" feeling.

I can't believe people liked your post.

As someone that still runs and quite enjoys using gauss (I had to readjust my whole style of use of gauss and I originally rarely used them) this would be absurd. Of course, I generally only one one Gauss designs but still. No.

[Strum Wealh]

Foxwalker, on 28 May 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

Can you show me where you saw that the Mauler is slated to be introduced? I see a lot of posts where people are asking for it but nothing here that says it is coming. One of my favorite mechs too. I would love to see it and hope they find a way to balance it.

A lot of us have high hopes for upcoming mechs and often we are disapointed. The Orion for one, was my fav in MW3, but while it is an OK mech in this game, it is not nearly as good as I would have liked.

Who would have thought the Jenner would be such a beast? It was junk in TT.

Bryan Ekman discusses the Mauler in his interview during NGNG # 103 (posted Feb. 21, 2014), from the 32:56 mark to the 33:16 mark - Bryan indicated that he had "seen a Mauler", that Alex Iglesias was working on a concept for the Maluer, and that he (Bryan) "is not saying when it's coming out" during the interview.

[Mystere]

Livewyr, on 28 May 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

Here's an interesting idea I've been throwing out there for a long time now:
Increase the Cool-Downs of all longer range weapons!!!!!!

(Guass to 7-8 seconds, PPCs to 6-7.. ERLL to 5 seconds..etc)

That way, if they want to mount just long range weapons, they're good at long range, and poor at short range (by being straight out-DPS'd by short range weapons.)

I think that would solve a lot of problems. (Including discouraging the super Juicy Dire wolf's Triple Gauss Rifle.)

I have an even more interesting idea: Go full Monty and normalize all weapons fire to the original TT 10-second round.

[Agent of Change]

Mystere, on 28 May 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I have an even more interesting idea: Go full Monty and normalize all weapons fire to the original TT 10-second round.

lol

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 28 May 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I have an even more interesting idea: Go full Monty and normalize all weapons fire to the original TT 10-second round.

By this, do you mean everything fires at the 10 second mark?

Or that weapons will have the proper damage to heat ratio as TT, with whatever cooldown is deemed appropriate?

[MonkeyDCecil]

No. No . NO. listen they will ghost heat the **** out of three or more Gauss rifles. If your 2xppc+2xAC/5 is ok so is two Gauss rifles. end of story.

[AlmightyAeng]

Felio, on 28 May 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

30 pinpoint damage at short, medium or long range with the fastest projectile in the game is too much.

Yes, gauss rifles weigh a lot, so it doesn't leave much room for other things. Yes, it is low DPS if you get up and brawl with them. It doesn't matter. Getting nailed with 30 instant damage to a single location without making any mistakes -- because be honest, the first shot a sniper gets is usually a free one -- is a very negative experience.

There is plenty of time while one gauss rifle is cooling down to charge and fire the other. It would still be very effective for sniping. It just wouldn't have that "I got ganked by a cheap shot" feeling.

Please also complain about 3 ppcs, 2 ppc/2ac5, 2 ac/10's and 4xAC5's.

'cause it's just too much damage! Oh no! What will we DO?!?!?

[Nyte Kitsune]

I agree, thats a silly idea. I'm for removing the charge and giving it a longer recycling time though. The charge is a pain to use AND is the only weapon that has a charge which is stupid. A longer recycle time would make more sense as it could easily be explained as the magnets that propel the Gauss ammo are re-charging, not to mentionwho ever heard of having to "Charge" a Gauss Rifle in Battletech or Mechwarrior.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 28 May 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

By this, do you mean everything fires at the 10 second mark?

Or that weapons will have the proper damage to heat ratio as TT, with whatever cooldown is deemed appropriate?

I meant the latter.

[Master Maniac]

Technoviking, on 28 May 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Yes, so the guy plans his whole mech around these two guns, perfectly times his release, and actually gets a hit for once, and you want to take that all away?

Exactly. Aiming is OP.

[ColourfulConfetti]

No, just no, that's a horrible idea, here's something for you though, try not being oblivious, especially if your a light mech. You're going to have to be more cautious when you spot, or gather intel, ect, never stop moving if your a light. As for the other weight classes, this is why having a scout is important for your team, helps to reveal snipers, poptarts lrms boats ect, but honestly your complaining about a dual gauss shot you didn't know about, but its part of the game, no different from a poptart suddenly alpha-ing you from behind cover, no different from gettign a face full of lrms at the start of the match, no different from being caught by sudden arty strike. Just suck it up, stuff like that can, and will happen occasionally. It makes no sense to target Dual Gauss specifically really.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 28 May 2014 - 01:41 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

MonkeyDCecil, on 28 May 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

No. No . NO. listen they will ghost heat the **** out of three or more Gauss rifles. If your 2xppc+2xAC/5 is ok so is two Gauss rifles. end of story.

Indeed.
In fact, the Vulture C has been rocking the dual-Gauss setup at 60 tons since 1990.

[WhoDidTheElf]

I'm in the boat of removing the charge up mechanic in favor of a long cool down. I realize this does not address the problem of 30 or 45 or even 55 pin point damage, but what it does is open up a space for brawlers to fit.

Brawling weapons need low cool downs. SRMS, Medium/Small lasers, machine guns, ect. need to keep their current cool downs, while larger, more powerful weapons, need longer cool downs. This gives brawlers, and other quicker mechs a chance to close the gap and pound on some one boating heavy long range weapons. A good pilot who can aim will still be able to do a doozy on brawler when they get close, but can only do it every so often. If they miss, it is extremely punishing as they have a long time to wait while the brawler repositions and continues to pound on them.

Same goes for a good brawler pilot. They can avoid the ultra high alpha of the other mech and punish their choice of carrying only heavy long range weapons.

I believe this would not only promote more diverse weapon load outs, but promote more brawling as well. Closing the gap becomes that more important.

[highwayman1981]

A skilled Gauss sniper can be a pain but they deserve thier damage because it takes time to develop the timing to fire them effectively. I have never used Gauss much because i find the timing aspect of the chargeup to be incredibly annoying, I get hit regularly by dual-gauss builds but its my own fault for not effectively using cover. If they catch me "peeking" and hit me in the face then i chuckle and watch the round from someone elses cockpit. If you keep dying then learn to adapt.

[-Natural Selection-]

Wait till you see chainfire on 3 gauss.. You will soon™