35 replies to this topic

[SirLANsalot]

So in the new ATD 4 it was said that PGI was having issues getting swappable ammo working in game.

Now I assume they are trying to get it to work like in TT having 2 ammo types to place, thus allowing you to take 2 levels of ammo. Aka 2 tons of slug but 1 ton of cluster. I guess that is where they are running into the issue of being able to program it into the game.

Why not just make it all one ammo type we all use now, like LBX 5 ammo but cut the ammo count in half? So instead of 30 rounds its 15 of each all wrapped up in a nice package (1t 1crit). It would be the cost of having swappable ammo by having 1/2 the ammo per a ton. In game you would be able to just hit the button (like ECM can with counter/disrupt) forcing a reload of the weapon to change between the two. Now here PGI could do 2 different things, either A: Its the same number regardless of type being shot, or B: 2 levels of ammo. So with B you would have say 4 tons of ammo, that's 60 rounds at 15 rounds each of both kinds of ammo. You fight for a while and start running low on slug rounds, you could then swap to cluster rounds and be full up again. Granted the cluster wouldn't be a favorable but you would have ammo again to keep fighting. On the other hand with Option A if you were running low, then you were running low, because for being able to swap ammo, you get less ammo per a ton and that would just be the skinny of it.


That's my thought anyways on how I figure to do the swappable ammo of LBX.
(something the IS needs to even if it would "obsolete" the AC10 but that's kinda the point of Tier 2 tech, wasn't it?).

[FupDup]

SirLANsalot, on 28 May 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

...
Why not just make it all one ammo type we all use now, like LBX 5 ammo but cut the ammo count in half? So instead of 30 rounds its 15 of each all wrapped up in a nice package (1t 1crit). It would be the cost of having swappable ammo by having 1/2 the ammo per a ton. In game you would be able to just hit the button (like ECM can with counter/disrupt) forcing a reload of the weapon to change between the two.
...

I'm gonna have to say "no" to the suggestion of "split" ammo (each ton gives both cluster and slug, rather than one or the other). People shouldn't be forced to take ammo types that they don't wanna use, i.e. someone who wants 3 tons of just slugs should be able to do so, or 2 tons of just clusters, or whatever combination you feel like.

[Alexandrix]

While I too would like to see the option of different ammo types,and being able to swap between them during combat,they evidently aren't going to be able to do that.At least not for a while anyways.I'd rather not see this become another backburner issue that gets swept under the rug and never resurfaces (knockdowns...?).

The simplest way to do it,is to just give the gun an "alternate" firing mode,kinda like ECM can swap modes.If ammo count has to be reduced a bit because of that,fine.

Edited by Alexandrix, 28 May 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[SirLANsalot]

FupDup, on 28 May 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

I'm gonna have to say "no" to the suggestion of "split" ammo (each ton gives both cluster and slug, rather than one or the other). People shouldn't be forced to take ammo types that they don't wanna use, i.e. someone who wants 3 tons of just slugs should be able to do so, or 2 tons of just clusters, or whatever combination you feel like.

However if its a programming issue, then they just might have to do that. IF you do not want to have cluster rounds, then there is this 1 crit less weapon called the UAC that cannot use the special rounds.

[Khobai]

the real question is why would anyone want cluster rounds. theyre not pinpoint. and they crit worse than pinpoint.

[DONTOR]

Todays artillery rounds can do both solid HE round or detonate at a certain time creating an airburst / shotgun effect. It is all done through the fuse, with one kind of ammunition. So it should be as simple as toggle on-off (slug-buckshot) in MWO.

[FupDup]

SirLANsalot, on 28 May 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

However if its a programming issue, then they just might have to do that. IF you do not want to have cluster rounds, then there is this 1 crit less weapon called the UAC that cannot use the special rounds.

But those might have crazy high jam rates, and/or the LBX's might not be bursts (only Ultras are confirmed for bursts AFAIK).


As for programming, I would outwardly think that having the mode-switch being similar to ECM switching would be still possible with segregated ammo. If you toggled to a firing mode that you didn't have ammo for, you'd simply be unable to fire the gun until you switched to a different mode.

Khobai, on 28 May 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

the real question is why would anyone want cluster rounds. theyre not pinpoint. and they crit worse than pinpoint.

Which is why we need to make clusters not suck.

Edited by FupDup, 28 May 2014 - 11:33 AM.

[t9nv3]

Honestly, we all know that one type will always be more useful/efficient than the others. People will figure out which one woks best and the other will be dropped from existence. Just give us slug rounds and call it a day.

[Alexandrix]

Khobai, on 28 May 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

the real question is why would anyone want cluster rounds. theyre not pinpoint. and they crit worse than pinpoint.

I do agree with your point.
But...sometimes I like to play to have fun instead of just trying to maximize my straight up killing potention.Call me a scrub,but sometimes the feel of shooting someone with a mech sized shotgun is just FUN.Not particularly effective...no.but damn FUN. lol

FupDup, on 28 May 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Which is why we need to make clusters not suck.

and this

[SirLANsalot]

Khobai, on 28 May 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

the real question is why would anyone want cluster rounds. theyre not pinpoint. and they crit worse than pinpoint.

Tell that to my side torso that was orange armor before getting blasted by a Dual LBX10 3 SRM6 Atlas. Blew my torso off in one go, and I was sitting there wondering what the hell just killed me. (was in my Highlander Heavy Metal dukeing it out with said atlas before suddenly just dropping)

[Mcgral18]

Khobai, on 28 May 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

the real question is why would anyone want cluster rounds. theyre not pinpoint. and they crit worse than pinpoint.

Well, I think I'll try an LB20x a few times with the cluster round.

It'll be pretty awesome, I think. But not terribly effective.

[DONTOR]

It would be cool if you could have 2 of them set to cluster and 2 to slug. That would rock. (if you had a DW with 4 that is)

[Roadkill]

Alexandrix, on 28 May 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

The simplest way to do it,is to just give the gun an "alternate" firing mode,kinda like ECM can swap modes.If ammo count has to be reduced a bit because of that,fine.

This.

Don't think of it as ammo, think of it as a number of shots. Each ton gives you 15 "shots" and you can choose (via toggle) whether that shot comes out as cluster or slug. That should be relatively easy to code, and is sufficient for me to not break immersion.

And like Alexandrix said, if that's deemed "too powerful" then reduce the shots/ton to 12 or something.

[Bhael Fire]

I'm totally fine with allowing LB-X ammo itself to be fired in either slug or cluster.

That is instead of taking 2 tons of cluster and 4 tons of slug, you'd have 6 tons of LB-X ammo than can be fired as either cluster or slug.

Think of it as special rounds that can be broken up into a cluster when fired, or remain "glued" together as a single slug. The LB-X weapon itself, depending on the mode it is fired in, either breaks the rounds apart when fired or keeps them intact.

After all, this game has so much space magic already, I don't see why it matters.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 28 May 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[Wildgrin]

Personally, it should just be swappable no need to change ammo types. There are modern day cannons which can dynamically change from a target distance airburst to contact without reloading or changing rounds. Ya, I realize that they have bombed each other back to the stone age but I feel this is one place where if it is a coding problem that we can just wave our hands and make the ammo work either way.

I Think that all the lbx ac's(both IS and Clan) should actually be firing as a proximity airburst anyway, rather than as a shotgun.

The affect would be to have an actually controllable shot spread at all ranges. (I would be ok with the canister going off at the indicated range (IS 540, clan ?) meaning that you have the expanding spread from 540m-1620m but a known blast area 0-540)

[Khobai]

Quote

Tell that to my side torso that was orange armor before getting blasted by a Dual LBX10 3 SRM6 Atlas.

Ok but an AC20 + x3 SRM6 Atlas wouldve blown your side torso off too. Your side torso didnt get blown off specifically because he had LB10Xs.

[VanillaG]

Having just listened to the VLog, Paul states that there will be 3 types of Clan AC because of the inability to swap ammo on the fly:

• UAC - Burst Fire
  
• LBX - Buckshot
  
• LBX - Slug

So you will be able to equip a specific variant of the LBX, buck or slug, but not be able to load up different types of ammo for the same weapon.

[Gyrok]

Khobai, on 28 May 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

the real question is why would anyone want cluster rounds. theyre not pinpoint. and they crit worse than pinpoint.

LOL...ok X number of pellets with 1 chance to crit each vs. 1 slug with 1 chance to crit each...hmmm...?

LBX20 = 19 more chances to crit than AC20.

Math is your friend man

[FupDup]

Gyrok, on 28 May 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

LOL...ok X number of pellets with 1 chance to crit each vs. 1 slug with 1 chance to crit each...hmmm...?

LBX20 = 19 more chances to crit than AC20.

Math is your friend man

Part of the issue is how crits work in MWO. When you get a crit, you aren't guaranteed to instantly kill an item like they were in BT. Most items have 10 health each. You would need several pellets to crit the same component in order for it to get destroyed. You'd probably end up just destroying the whole body section before everything is critted out of it (hence why people tend to prefer pinpoint weapons).

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 28 May 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

LOL...ok X number of pellets with 1 chance to crit each vs. 1 slug with 1 chance to crit each...hmmm...?

LBX20 = 19 more chances to crit than AC20.

Math is your friend man

While true, it will take 10 pellets to all hit the same component to destroy it. The A20 can destroy 3 things in a single shot assuming the target had 19 armor or less.

In the same situation, the LB20x might get a single crit damage.

Edited by Mcgral18, 28 May 2014 - 12:34 PM.