71 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

I agree. The 75 ton Mad Cat is going to have JJs that turn like the Victors used to since it is a heavy. Its going to only be 5 tons lighter. I will be fast and turn fast. It will have clan XLs so it can loose an entire torso and keep going. Its going to out class the Victor unless they nerf it into the ground. And some how I dont think they will do that at least at first on $500 gold Mad Cats.

So it gets back to this the Victor needs to work as what it was ment for. And they need to fix jump sniping from another direction. Even if they nerf the Victor to where it cant jump snipe something else will just take its place.

[Ngamok]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 May 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

OK it looks like they are working weopons balance finally to fix poptarting some. So now can you guys balance the Victors and Highlanders from over nerfing them before? Thanks

[Ngamok]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 May 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

They did mention it in the Vlog that is why you have these threads today. http://mwomercs.com/...the-autocanons/

II know all about the pinpoint problem and many suggested solutions. But pinpoint high alpha at range is the problem that is directly related to jump sniping. And in turn to the over nerf to the highlander and victors. And if you cut down the effective range of jump snipers. And you couple that with the slower recharge times of jump jets they already did you have changed the damge you take getting to a jump sniper. Lowering the damage you taking getting in means you are more likely to be able to close the gap. Along with this a fix to SRMs (they also talked about this in the Vlog) will make brawling vs jump sniping mor even. So yes it is time to change balance the Victors so they move like an 80 ton mech not a 100 ton mech.

Here's a Hint:

• AC/5 and UAC/5 have had their max range reduced from 1700m to 1240m

The PPC's max range is what again? 1080m. Guess what. Nothing changes other than they won't hit you with AC/5s only at longer range.

[Nauht]

Khobai, on 28 May 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

PPCs are the one weapon thats present in every single poptart build. So the logical thing to do is nerf PPCs.

So the logical thing is to nerf PPCs for everyone.. including lights, mediums and every other land mech?

Some logic there. It almost sounds like you've got an agenda.....

Put screen shake on the way down would be a good first step. Unable to fire while in the air is another logical choice.

Trauglodyte, on 28 May 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

I'm fine with them being a good short ranged brawler. That was how they were designed. The problem is, and we all know this, that they're not being used as a short ranged brawler but rather as a jump sniper. You can't fix the problem based on the weapons that they carry so they were fixed based on how they're primarily used.

Look, I didn't like it but I still play my Victor just fine. They're more sluggish but I can get past that. I don't much like that they have the same twist rate as an Atlas and I've gone on record as saying that. But, people want them to go back to exactly how they were pre-nerf and that isn't good for the game. Period. If we didn't have perfect pin point damage, it might not be an issue. But, we do so we're stuck with how it is. I don't like PGI's approach but how do you fix the problem based on the problem without bringing us back to the original problem? And, more importantly, where do you stop? To make it more understandable, there is NO point in changing the nerf when people aren't playing the stock load outs. The second everyone starts running nothing but heavy ballistics and SRMs, PGI can look at it. But, even with the upcoming nerf to ACs, the meta is still going to be the Dragonslayer w/ PPCs and ACs.

You're piecing one unrelated nerf to try to balance a meta game problem overall?

Great! Lets make ALL mechs lose 20% torso twist to combat the pinpoint meta.

[xe N on]

Lets say poptarting is a bacteria strain and the Victor is a patient who got infested by them in the right arm.

The normal treatment would be fighting the bacterial infection by e.g. using penicillin. Another solution, though not favorable for the patient, would be to cut off the right arm.

However, PGI's solution is to cut of a leg and state the patient is cured.

Or: I can poptart in all my mechs having balistic hardpoints, energy hardpoints and jumpjets as good as in my Victor. It's not the mech. It's simply because 30 points of pinoint damage combined with jump jets is a very efficient way to play this game.

Edited by xe N on, 28 May 2014 - 11:01 PM.

[wanderer]

They never fixed poptarting before this. This also won't fix poptarting, as the point is that being able to deliver big ol' doses of frontloaded damage is the problem- and 2x max AC range does absolutely nothing to change that.

Making airborne 'Mechs have shake regardless of active jets would have been a poptart fix.

Making ACs burst-fire, thereby forcing damage spread from firing on the move/moving targets would have been a FLD fix that also helped with poptarts.

Paul either is incompetent or by some amazing conjunction of derp ignorant of the actual problems.

[SgtMagor]

yes take the ball and chains that you slapped on my mechs off!

[Ultimax]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 May 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

I agree. The 75 ton Mad Cat is going to have JJs that turn like the Victors used to since it is a heavy. Its going to only be 5 tons lighter. I will be fast and turn fast. It will have clan XLs so it can loose an entire torso and keep going.

It's even crazier than that!

If you sit down and calculate all of the gear the madcat has right now for the prime variant (weapons, engine, armor, structure etc) it has approximately 82-85 tons of stuff.

So it will be working off of the Heavy movement code, with a truly massive engine, and will also be able to fit more than a 75 ton IS mech will in terms of weapons (as clan weapons are lighter) - it will likely be able to fit the same amount or more weapons than VTR/AWS while being faster and more agile.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 29 May 2014 - 05:16 AM.

[xe N on]

I realy would like to brawl with my victors. After nerf, all Victors were made into pure jump snipers, because my Atlas does better in brawling.

[Harathan]

El Bandito, on 28 May 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

So slow in fact, I sometimes wonder what the hell does the balance director do at work.

Makes hats out of the money the Founders gave them.

[WVAnonymous]

Kaldor, on 28 May 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

Victors and Highlanders were nerfed because they had far too much mobility for an assault. It was almost impossible to actually get behind one with the torso twist and JJ capabilities they had. I know, I own all 6 Highlanders, and 3 Victors. Using the abilities they had at their disposal it was far too easy to keep every target in front of you and keep targets at 90m+, so you could unload with an alpha to kill or severely cripple anything that attempted to kill you with ease.

God I miss that... My Dragon Slayer was a monster.

Ultimatum X, on 29 May 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

It's even crazier than that!

If you sit down and calculate all of the gear the madcat has right now for the prime variant (weapons, engine, armor, structure etc) it has approximately 82-85 tons of stuff.

So it will be working off of the Heavy movement code, with a truly massive engine, and will also be able to fit more than a 75 ton IS mech will in terms of weapons (as clan weapons are lighter) - it will likely be able to fit the same amount or more weapons than VTR/AWS while being faster and more agile.

Waiting for mine.

[Mister Blastman]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 May 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

OK it looks like they are working weopons balance finally to fix poptarting some. So now can you guys balance the Victors and Highlanders from over nerfing them before? Thanks

No, they aren't. It is just an illusion. They keep tweaking everything but doing things needed to PPCs.

[XX Sulla XX]

Realy they probably just need to add a bit of movement or shake at range. Something to break up the pinpoint damage. And as the range gets shorter it naturally will have less of an effect.

[Koniving]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 May 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

OK it looks like they are working weopons balance finally to fix poptarting some. So now can you guys balance the Victors and Highlanders from over nerfing them before? Thanks

Unlock your arms.

XX Sulla XX, on 29 May 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

Realy they probably just need to add a bit of movement or shake at range. Something to break up the pinpoint damage. And as the range gets shorter it naturally will have less of an effect.

Koniving, on 29 May 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

I'm well aware, but nothing will get a cone. It'd make competitive players cry. Delayed convergence was great but it was server side. Client side somehow is open to hacking but that's probably because of how simple PGI made that (since there's so much security in a server side system, why protect the client side). But if we had it client side, we'd have delayed convergence without 'lag' throwing it off.

There's other ways too without doing a cone of fire. Play in 3rd person. Especially in a Stalker, Raven, Shadowhawk, Kintaro, Hunchback, Firestarter, etc.

Notice how the crosshair moves?
Move at different speeds.
Notice if the mech jiggles, the crosshair jiggles.
If the mech hobbles, the crosshair hobbles.
If the mech limps, oh god is the crosshair useless!

Wouldn't it only be fair if that was also true for first person?
We'd have no need for cone of fire or random chance or even delayed convergence.

But even better!
Every mech will have a unique (well as unique as the animation is) crosshair movement. Diversity!
Every mech will automatically have improved or worsened accuracy at different speeds.
Climbing a hill? Welp that affects accuracy.
Falling from jumpjets? Oh god you should see what happens! O_O!
Got shot? WHAM! Crosshair jerks so far to the side that you can miss by almost 75 degrees that if you fired then!

So why the heck isn't it in first person? It's not that different from a headbob.

Spread the word.

[Zerberus]

A biased viewpoint with an obvious personal agenda is obviously biased. Just a bit easier to hide when there`S "OMFG!!! WHAT ARE TEHY N3RFING NOW?!?!?" BS flooding teh forums.

XX Sulla XX, on 28 May 2014 - 02:43 PM, said:

They did mention it in the Vlog that is why you have these threads today. http://mwomercs.com/...the-autocanons/

II know all about the pinpoint problem and many suggested solutions. But pinpoint high alpha at range is the problem that is directly related to jump sniping. And in turn to the over nerf to the highlander and victors. And if you cut down the effective range of jump snipers. And you couple that with the slower recharge times of jump jets they already did you have changed the damge you take getting to a jump sniper. Lowering the damage you taking getting in means you are more likely to be able to close the gap. Along with this a fix to SRMs (they also talked about this in the Vlog) will make brawling vs jump sniping mor even. So yes it is time to change balance the Victors so they move like an 80 ton mech not a 100 ton mech.

1. PPCs and AC5w will still synergize very well, especially within optimum / normal poptart range. You just won`t be ablt to troll with the acs at 1700m anymore. OMG, what a huge nerf....

2. Buy any Atlas, put a 360 standard in it (for a blazingly fast 64.x km/h top speed), and then try again to convince yourself that the Victor rides anything like like a 100 tonner.

[Appogee]

El Bandito, on 28 May 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

I sometimes wonder what the hell does the balance director do at work.

He makes plans.

Big plans.

Then he thinks about those plans.

And he changes his big plans.

Into other Big Plans.

Then he takes a nap or goes on a holiday, because making Big Plans is Hard Work.

[Deathlike]

Appogee, on 29 May 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

He makes plans.

Big plans.

Then he thinks about those plans.

And he changes his big plans.

Into other Big Plans.

Then he takes a nap or goes on a holiday, because making Big Plans is Hard Work.

There's a plan?

The plan is dead.

Abort plan.

[Fut]

FupDup, on 28 May 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

The AC range isn't really causing the problems we see today. The real problem is that we can put huge volumes of damage/weapons into a single spot, in one big spike that rips holes in the heaviest of armor.

Yeah, exactly.
If this is PGI's attempt at "fixing" poptarts, it's not going to do anything but force those players to shoot at slightly closer targets.
The end result will remain the same.

Edited by Fut, 29 May 2014 - 08:57 AM.

[DeathlyEyes]

The gargoyle is going to rip IS mechs up in brawl. The only thing close to it is the Victor and PGI has ruined it.

[Ultimax]

Zerberus, on 29 May 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

2. Buy any Atlas, put a 360 standard in it (for a blazingly fast 64.x km/h top speed), and then try again to convince yourself that the Victor rides anything like like a 100 tonner.

I've done that, in the DDC and the Boar's Head. Actually I've gone as high as a 375 STD in the Boar's Head.

The Atlas still has a slower linear speed, but the torso twisting speed is identical to the VTR with the same engine sizes.