15 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Yes... this again.

General consensus is very few (and by that I mean like 3 weird people) like the present Gauss charge mechanic. Parallel to this... There's the present war between players who despise the high-alpha pin-point alpha and those who swear by it...

PGI did the Gauss charge to break it from being combined with PPC and or AC mini-alphas. With that they threw in Ghost-Heat to break the massive boating alphas that were the rage at the time.

Now they're messing with AC ranges...

I will admit their efforts have been a mixed bag with IMHO marginal success. In short... they've done a lot of balance two-step, taking 2 steps forward and one step back... And disenfranchised one camp or the other along the way.

My new and exciting solution that as far as I know has not been suggested:

1.) I'm largely ambivalent with the upcoming AC changes... I'm willing to give'm a try.

2.) Remove the existing Gauss charge mechanic.

3.) Apply a simple movement-based charge / delay to both the PPC and the Gauss.

Explanation: The premise is both the PPC and Gauss require a massive amount of energy to be built-up and stored in a capacitor prior to issuing a shot. The production of energy via the engine is capped and as such, movement... or more precisely the magnitude of movement has a direct influence on the length of time it takes to prime and charge their individual capacitors. The faster the mech is moving... the longer the ramp-up time prior to issuing the shot. Jump-jets are treated to the same ramp-up penalty as if the mech was at full speed.

Examples:

PPC/EPPC:
- movement / speed "0" = No ramp-up penalty, issued shots fire instantly.
- movement / speed "1-20% max speed = .10 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "21-40% max speed = .20 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "41-60% max speed = .30 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "61-80% max speed = .40 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "81-100% max speed = .50 second ramp-up penalty.

Gauss:
- movement / speed "0" max speed = .10 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "1-20% max speed = .20 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "21-40% max speed = .30 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "41-60% max speed = .40 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "61-80% max speed = .50 second ramp-up penalty.
- movement / speed "81-100% max speed = .60 second ramp-up penalty.

* Number of stacked weapons adds +.01 for each stacked weapon. I.e.. 1 PPC @ 20% max speed = .20 delay. 2 PPCs @ 20% max speed = .22 delay. etc...

** Exampled delays are 1st suggestion and can be tweaked for desired effect.

Functional example:

X Mech is utilizing a mini-alpha combo of 1 A/C5 + PPC + Gauss:
- Player is standing still (Sniping)
-Player pulls the trigger and fires all three at once:
~ A/C fires immediately.
~ Gauss round delays .10 seconds.
~ PPC discharge fires immediately.
Result: The shots are desynchronized.
*A/C round is affected by ballistic drop-off and time-to-target.
*Gauss is desynchronized from the A/C and PPC.
*PPC is unaffected.

As the speed / magnitude of movement increases, so so does the delay and the disparity of the synchronization. (Again... shooting while JJ'ing is treated like 100% max speed)

Desired results:
- Snipers regain ability to stand and deliver a ranged high-alpha shot. Why? They are forced to be stationary to maximize accuracy but at the cost of being a non-moving (easy) target.
- Gauss is no longer hampered by the present clumsy charge mechanic, re-invigorating it's usage.
- PPC (Especially grouped / paired) become less meta-viable secondary to desynchronization.
- Jump-sniping / poptarting gets mitigated secondary to desynchronization.

TL, DR: Remove the clumsy Gauss charge and fix pin-point accuracy issues via a movement-based shot delay that de-harmonizes the present mini-alpha groupings.

Thoughts?

[FupDup]

The problem with any penalties tied to movement is that the main "culprits" of the current "meta" don't get hit as hard as the more "innocent" builds. As a prime example, let's say I've got a Griffin running around with an ERPPC in its arm. That Griffin HAS to be mobile to be viable, because it inherently has less armor and firepower than a larger mech. Mobility is literally the one and only advantage it has. Now let's look at a Stalker or some other tubby assault mech. He doesn't need to move very fast when he's lining up his shot, because his very high-mounted arms pretty much hide him for the most part. He can actually afford to stand still for a split second, and then immediately back up after he's done his business.


I'd prefer for a convergence system to not factor in movement speed at all, for the sake of not nerfing the least used weight classes. My own favorite suggestion is Homeless Bill's...

http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/

Edited by FupDup, 29 May 2014 - 09:32 PM.

[zazz0000]

Make that FOUR people who like the charge mechanic!

[DaZur]

FupDup, on 29 May 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

I'd prefer for a convergence system to not factor in movement speed at all, for the sake of not nerfing the least used weight classes. My own favorite suggestion is Homeless Bill's...

http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/

HB's suggestion is kind'a the grass-roots concept most all suggestions are derived and I'd support that solution as well. That said, it's functionally probably the most mechanically involved solution that would require a pretty hefty re-write. Having said that and knowing PGI... I'll get to bone a moviestar before they'll entertain something as deep as HB's suggestions.

Re: Your conundrum example: Maybe the ramp-up penalty is only applied when grouped? This way your singular PPC is unaffected?

[FupDup]

DaZur, on 29 May 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

HB's suggestion is kind'a the grass-roots concept most all suggestions are derived and I'd support that solution as well. That said, it's functionally probably the most mechanically involved solution that would require a pretty hefty re-write. Having said that and knowing PGI... I'll get to bone a moviestar before they'll entertain something as deep as HB's suggestions.

By that logic, most of us probably should stop posting suggestions at all, because only a very select few make it into the game. I'm being a bit of a "dreamer" in terms of mechanic suggestions, rather than "what is within PGI's grasp/whim," because the latter would be very depressing.

DaZur, on 29 May 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

Re: Your conundrum example: Maybe the ramp-up penalty is only applied when grouped? This way your singular PPC is unaffected?

Still doesn't absolve my concern of the "nerf gun" missing its intended target (i.e. sort of like the Victor and Highlander turning/twisting nerfs, which hurt brawlers more than poptarts...). If we must have a charge-up or delay (rather than a whole convergence rework), you can base it on some other kind of factor.

Maybe base it on how many you're trying to fire at the same time? The only issue with that, though, is that a macro might be about to get around it (by firing them in a series, a split-second apart). The system would have to somehow detect that additional shot being fired like 0.05 or whatever after the first, and then add the penalty to that additional shot as normal.

Edited by FupDup, 29 May 2014 - 09:50 PM.

[DaZur]

FupDup, on 29 May 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

Maybe base it on how many you're trying to fire at the same time? The only issue with that, though, is that a macro might be about to get around it (by firing them in a series, a split-second apart). The system would have to somehow detect that additional shot being fired like 0.05 or whatever after the first, and then add the penalty to that additional shot as normal.

Actually a staggered macro would simply be a non-movement based version of mine.

Truth is, while I agree with you in principle, the reality is movement should rightly invoke some increase in targeting and aimpoint... Dismissing real-world reticle stabilization and embracing lore fluff... It should not be as easy to sight a shot at 100kph as it is going 5kph.

[Kassatsu]

DaZur, on 29 May 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Actually a staggered macro would simply be a non-movement based version of mine.

Truth is, while I agree with you in principle, the reality is movement should rightly invoke some increase in targeting and aimpoint... Dismissing real-world reticle stabilization and embracing lore fluff... It should not be as easy to sight a shot at 100kph as it is going 5kph.

Or sailing through the air like an airplane. There are a ton of possible fixes but we don't hear a single word about them even considering anything. My favorite poptart nerf? A very slight delay on the reticle shake stopping, something like 0.6 seconds. I should also note, that while it's shaking, your actual aim is still stationary - Try firing a laser while jumping up. I can see people using a medium laser (or chain-firing two of them) to act as a sort of... laser sight to gauge where their shots will land. That alone would force them to stay in the air (and line of fire) longer, as well as require far more skill than the current pop up, left-click, drop and wait method employed now.

[Alex Warden]

zazz0000, on 29 May 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

Make that FOUR people who like the charge mechanic!

add one

hell i made 2 kills in a brawly Trial of Position match with my gauss phract... not so easy but hell of a fun...
they finally added some challenge to the gauss, pls don´t ruin it by MORE stupid non-canon mechanics

Edited by Alex Warden, 29 May 2014 - 10:17 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

because only a very select few make it into the game

well we finally got an artillery nerf and x2 autocannon max range. weve been suggesting those for months. just have to be consistently annoying and patient

[Tekadept]

It's a nice idea, but unfortunately MWO on this matter is

Edited by Tekadept, 29 May 2014 - 10:24 PM.

[Reitrix]

Wonder what would happen if Chain Fire was enforced on weapon groups, and the only way to fire all of them at once was to use the Alpha Strike keybind on a 15 second cooldown >_>

[Alex Warden]

Reitrix, on 29 May 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

Wonder what would happen if Chain Fire was enforced on weapon groups, and the only way to fire all of them at once was to use the Alpha Strike keybind on a 15 second cooldown >_>

lol, suggested like 10 times by myself alone, since CBT ... maybe in 2 years or so, when they realize that alphas are not an "emergency move" as it should be...

[Tekadept]

Most "Meta" players can get away with this mouse..

[Reitrix]

Tekadept, on 29 May 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

Most "Meta" players can get away with this mouse..

It is amusing when dueling a Meta Mech 1v1 on my Ilya watching them shoot-powerdown-shoot-powerdown until i core them.

[Mycrus]

Leave gauss charge where it is...

Introduce input lag to the ppc shot to simulate the engines building up power to fire...

Tweak ghost heat if it is a sacred cow that can't be deep sized.

And for crying out loud... fix hit Registration

[OneEyed Jack]

Alex Warden, on 29 May 2014 - 11:23 PM, said:

lol, suggested like 10 times by myself alone, since CBT ... maybe in 2 years or so, when they realize that alphas are not an "emergency move" as it should be...

That's ridiculous.

You're trying to imply that "alpha" is some kind of special attack, but in practice it's nothing more than firing all reasonably compatible weapons at once. For some mechs this is a big deal. But other mechs are designed to fire everything at once without it being an issue. For an Assault loaded down with big energy weapons an alpha might be something you save for just the right time, but for a Spider with 2 medium lasers, it's just a shot you are not only willing to take with every trigger pull, but one you need to.