Cabal668, on 10 July 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:
If you look at a Tank (Leopard 2 for example) you see it also has recoil even if it weights 65tons. If the recoild wouldn't be absorbed by the recoil absorbing mechanism and the Tank with its Tracks itself you wouldn't hit ****. The barrel would raise and bounce and the shot would go anywhere. So i don't think recoil is negligible.
Back to the topic: I don't think cone of fire is the best way to balance weopons for a simple reason:
If you are good at aiming you get hurt by the system, if you are bad at aiming it won't hurt you much.
For example World of Tanks has this cone of fire, so if you even aim the best you can your sot will be anywhere in the aiming circle. This is ****, because even if you aim at weak spots, the shot will go somewhere by the formula used.
My idea to prevent poptarting and make aiming still worthy is to restrict the fire of high energy weapons. So you can only fire one PPC OR one Gauss but not all together, because of the high energie consumption of these weapons. So Ghost heat would be no problem, also the charge of Gauss is not needed anymore.
The benefit of this is, that a poptart or sniper has to show itself longer to bring the damage to a target. Now a poptad or sniper is visible only < 1 second so you can't even give em damage of one medium laser. If he has to use chainfire he will be out of cover for more than one second to have the same amount of damage dealt and has to lead with the target.
Maybe you should put this idea into the voting, too.
That's what the "propose another solution" vote is for. But I do try to mention suggestions worth noting.
As for your suggestion, elimination of cone of fire is not the best idea. All you have to do is up the precision of the cone for "still shots" as opposed to "moving shots" where the cone will most definitely spread. This spread goes up as the speed goes up.
You could also combine crosshair "shake" based on terrain obstruction or movement, or make this additional system stand-alone--and simply make the crosshair move as the 'mech does. Basically, the crosshair would behave in the same way as it would if you were in third person (the crosshair actually moves in accordance to the 'mechs movement and shakes if you hit particularly rough terrain).
Lobotomite, on 10 July 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:
Simplified idea: just add a crosshair behaving similar to the ones known from present infantry shooters. Movement/Jumping -> cone of fire. Standing still -> no cone. In addition to simulate the targeting computer it could also have a cone which adjusts over time when your crosshair adjusts the range to the targeted area/mech. Recoil could have a similar effect, widening the cone for splitseconds and mainly affecting rapidfire weapons like UACs. The code should also already be ingame. Look at the random LBX pellets spread.
Good suggestion, but I think it would be easier to simply make the crosshair behave the same way it does in first person as it does in third-person. Again, I'm all for cone-of-fire, but I think they should combine both systems, tbh. Plus, my faith in P.G.I.'s programming skills is not the highest... I think it would be better to start with a baby-step, rather then a full-blown leap into a combined system of both crosshair shake and cone-of-fire.
Bobzilla, on 10 July 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:
Make the arm reticle represented by 2 circles spaced slightly apart so as they can't land in one section of a mech at distance, but up close the target appears larger, so both reticles can fit in one section. The distance between should be adjusted so an average sized mech, at 300m will fit both reticles in any given section.
Then do the same for the torso. But make the distance between slightly different than the arm reticles. So even with arm lock, or in the 'resting' position none of the weapon locations line up perfectly.
With this done, at a range beyond 300m (can be adjusted), the weapons in both arms would never hit the same location and the weapons in both torsos would never hit the same location. Now with great skill, the weapons in one arm, and one torso could land in the same location.
Pros:
This means it takes skill to aim a lot of dmg in one spot at range, which is still limited by weapon placement. Which skill should be represented.
Also will add some appeal to pilot lights, as they are small and won't be taking large alphas at range.
Gives an indirect buff to spread and short range weapons.
Takes away some of the risk and adds some reward to brawling.
Cons:
Certain mechs will have excellent hard point locations to line up torso/arm PPFLD weapons like the DS.
Not sure where head weapons should fire, maybe exactly between the torso reticles.
Excellent suggestion. That would make "dual targeting" a thing and add another manuever pilots could try. However, as you said, some 'mech's have better hardpoint alignment then others. Which WOULD pose an advantage for the 'mechs you mentioned. However, for 'mechs such as the Highlander or Victor you also have to remember that their strength is also in their ability to jump-snipe. If you add crosshair shake (or crosshair "wandering") on the way down as well as the way up during a jump, then you've effectively made the jump-sniping maneuver into a high-risk, medium-reward maneuver like it is supposed to be.
Ancient Demise, on 10 July 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:
I think we should shy away from pinpoint hits while standing still. That might encourage a little too much sniping. I would say at minimum, a 1 meter deviation from center at 500 meters (about a 0.23 degree cone) so that well placed shots will still hit but will probably not all hit the same spot. I am assuming your proposal includes different cones for each weapon fired at the same time.
As far as ghost heat workarounds, I think the core issue of mwo's heat system should be addressed to fix that. Your proposal goes a long way to eliminating the need for ghost heat but with a better heat dissipation system (not to get off topic) the convergence solution would be even better.
Correct, for the most part.
Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 11 July 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again here, the single best fundamental mechanics change PGI can add is dynamic precision reduction.
DPR introduces shot deviation around the point of aim. Accuracy remains perfect, but precision fluctuates. Apply stacking, scaling, dynamic modifiers based on current heat %, current throttle %, and stability state (JJs on/off, on/off the ground, recently received impulse, potentially weapon recoil of some kind, etc.).
This introduces a whole range of choice and decision making to the game, and ultimately real pilot skill should be more about choice than about base reflex. A monkey can have amazing reflexes, but can a monkey time his shot to achieve optimum shot placement based on on-the-fly heat, movement, and stability modifiers?
The individual deviations wouldn't have to be all that major, either, because of the stacking nature of DPR. Plus, the DPR mechanic could supplement or outright replace the Ghost Heat mechanic, while also allowing PGI to revert some nerfs and other mechanical innovations that they've had to do in the past.
You're gonna have to explain DPR in fourth grade terms... I lost you after the second paragraph. Sorry, I mean no disrespect.
Edited by ReXspec, 11 July 2014 - 12:45 PM.
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