122 replies to this topic

[SirLANsalot]

cSand, on 30 May 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

I guess I just don't see it as "screwing" anyone, anymore than, say, Blizzard not letting you have Orc units if you choose to play as Humans in Warcraft 2

That would be fine if we didn't start out with everything already aka, what we own now.

[SirLANsalot]

Bhael Fire, on 30 May 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Again, they have already stated that players will be able to use ANY mech they want, just not in Faction play...because that's going to be PGI hosted events with restrictions just like any other special event.

So, there's not going to be any hard locking people out of their current inventory for normal matches. You'll be able to use whatever mech you want.

I said regardless of CW OR NOT! I better be able to use whatever effing mech I want in CW, I may have to pay more cbills to get it there and repair it if it dies, but locking me out of a mech I already own is not a good way to keep people playing CW.

This is the problem that has occurred because we already have extensive inventories of mechs. Trying to "play to a faction" isn't going to work for people who already are here, those that come after CW will have to deal with higher Cbills for mechs there faction doesn't normally own. Those of us who already do own those mechs, will just have to deal with higher costs in maintaining those mechs in the theater of war.

[Roland]

cSand, on 30 May 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

I guess I just don't see it as "screwing" anyone, anymore than, say, Blizzard not letting you have Orc units if you choose to play as Humans in Warcraft 2

It would be like blizzard selling you an outfit for hundreds of dollars, and then saying you couldn't use it on a specific faction.

[Bhael Fire]

SirLANsalot, on 30 May 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

I said regardless of CW OR NOT! I better be able to use whatever effing mech I want in CW, I may have to pay more cbills to get it there and repair it if it dies, but locking me out of a mech I already own is not a good way to keep people playing CW.

Yeah, don't know what to say then. There are going to be rules and restrictions in Faction play....just like any other game mode. If you don't want to play by the rules, then you can't play the game in Faction mode. It's not that weird of a concept and is perfectly reasonable.

[Roland]

There aren't going to be the kind of restrictions you are thinking though.

[Veranova]

Davers, on 30 May 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Would be great if they were using tonnage limits, but they are not. 4*3 breaks that idea.

Actually 4x3 has tonnage rules built in to it.

The aim is to first try and match the tonnages inside each weight class, and then add deviation to that tonnage over time.

So a 55 ton medium will initially only be matched against another 55 ton medium, and this will spread to 50 tons, 45 tons, etc, over time.
Because of this a bias can be built in for clan 'mechs as I described above, it's actually in the design they released

Now the question is whether they are going to implement this tonnage matching in the final 4x3 as it hasn't been mentioned at-all in wake of the underlying issues.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Bhael Fire, on 30 May 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

Russ does say in NGNG podcast #105 Pt. 2 that in Faction play, players will be restricted to mechs appropriate for their faction.

So, in Faction play, IS factions will be limited to IS mechs, Clans will be limited to Clan mechs. As for Merc Corps and Lone Wolves, I imagine the types of mechs they are limited to would depend on the faction they have a contract with. So basically, if they have a contract with a Clan faction, then they'd be able to use Clan mechs. That's my guess on how they will do it.

In Public play, players can use whatever mechs they want no matter what faction they belong to.

Clans never used mercs... in fact they'd consider the simple thought of mercernary's barbaric and shameful.

[Bhael Fire]

Flash Frame, on 30 May 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

Clans never used mercs... in fact they'd consider the simple thought of mercernary's barbaric and shameful.

Yes I know. They don't use C-Bills either but that hasn't stopped PGI from letting them do that.

[Vassago Rain]

Bhael Fire, on 30 May 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Yes I know. They don't use C-Bills either but that hasn't stopped PGI from letting them do that.

Because this game is as battletech as mechwarrior 4.

[Belorion]

Bhael Fire, on 30 May 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Again, they have already stated that players will be able to use ANY mech they want, just not in Faction play...because that's going to be PGI hosted events with restrictions just like any other special event.

So, there's not going to be any hard locking people out of their current inventory for normal matches. You'll be able to use whatever mech you want.

Faction Play will be normal play. PUG matches will just be the thing people do in between Faction Play...

What happens in CW will be what people care about. People won't want their 240 dollars worth of mechs only available for practice drops... Even then why practice with mechs you can't use in CW?

[Smitti]

Koniving, on 30 May 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

...Stuff...

We can cater to him when repair and rearm comes along; then he can 'capture' someone's mech and struggle to keep it running up until he ultimately loses it for his Inner Sphere mechbay (though it won't do anything to his Clan mechbay).

^^This.

I had always quite liked the idea of IS pilots having to salvage clan tech. Always wanted to be able to hose what's left of some dead clanner out of the cockpit of his Mad Cat Timberwolf and claim it for my own, as an IS merc, and only being able to modify the loadout with salvaged weapon systems, with increased upkeep costs (specialist tech crews having to be employed) and a longer repair & rearm timeframe (an actual cumulative time period rather than instant, lets say one match downtime for anything like blasted limbs, two matches for CT coring etc etc. Parts for these things are hard to come by, don'cha know...)

Said clan mech could then be used by any player in any engagement without faction restriction as spoils of war.

Salvage rights could be awarded by, say, a 5% chance for whomever did highest total damage to the mech in question, or 10% for highest damage + kill shot, or something like that. Players would then be given the opportunity to pay salvage costs to retain it (a reduced percentage of total mech value via cbills or MC, much like buying any ordinary mech in the shop, just significantly cheaper to reflect the cost of an extra mechbay and R&R just to use the damn thing), then (provided they had a free mech bay) R&R costs to get it running again. That would keep some of the grind in place, and also keep lining PGI's coffers a little to keep them happy.

But of course, we'd need R&R to re-appear.

And for the powers that be to G.A.F about mercs, immersion, CW, cool factor etc.

Edited by Smittiferous, 31 May 2014 - 06:01 AM.

[SirLANsalot]

Vassago Rain, on 30 May 2014 - 06:15 PM, said:

Because this game is as battletech as mechwarrior 4.

Somehow that is a bad thing?


The entirety of the Mechwarrior NAME states its based upon Battletech but entirely isn't Battletech. Strict adherence to tradition means you don't have anything better to think about.

[Belorion]

Yeah its a bad thing. Why call it Mechwarrior if it isnt going to be? There is a reason I play this game and not Hawken or Heavygear.

[GreyGriffin]

I imagine the comments about thinking of it as spoils of war or salvage is followed by a nervous laugh and shifting of the eyes.

Because of course your Liao-aligned Mercenary company has an entire trinary of Clan Wolf heavies of one particular configurating (S) in perfect condition as salvage. That's why you can drop with them whenever you want!

You're all very special.

[Bhael Fire]

Belorion, on 31 May 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

People won't want their 240 dollars worth of mechs only available for practice drops... Even then why practice with mechs you can't use in CW?

Ok, see this is what I find absolutely insane; why would ANYONE buy $240 worth of mechs if they didn't plan on being in the factions that are KNOWN for using these mechs in the first place (i.e. Clans)? And then on top of that, get miffed and all indignant about being asked to follow the rules of special hosted events like those that will be a part of Faction play?

And yes, Public play will be the "normal" mode of play for this game. Faction play, as mentioned numerous times, will be a special mode of play that will be hosted by PGI. There are going to be special rules and restrictions in this mode of play that closer resembles BT lore.

Now, that said, there's a distinct possibility they will incorporate some sort of "salvage" system that would allow IS factions to use Clan mechs, but I would not expect it...much less get mad about it if they decide not to allow it. After all, Clan mechs are made for Clan factions. If you want to pilot them 24/7 in any game mode, then just join a Clan faction.

[Dymlos2003]

Mercs get clan mechs and technology from salvage. They'll be able to pilot them.

[Belorion]

Dymlos2003, on 31 May 2014 - 12:13 PM, said:

Mercs get clan mechs and technology from salvage. They'll be able to pilot them.

Source?

[Jin Ma]

Belorion, on 01 June 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

Source?

i would take what he said with a grain of salt. since IS also salvage clan mechs, and chances are we are not getting clan mechs on the IS faction

[Belorion]

The way it will probably go down is that they will restrict the Clan Mechs to only Clans... all the people who bought them already will pitch a holy fit... suddenly everyone will be able to plan Clan Mechs regardless of their faction.

Just my guess.

Its still an unsure bet.

[Dirkdaring]

I just have a feeling we're going to see clan mechs dropping alongside inner sphere mechs and going at it just like games do now.

I'll be the first one to slap my hand into my face when I see that.