44 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Abivard, on 31 May 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

You seem to be a complete Stalker novice.

Stalker's ALWAYS get hit in the side torsos, ALWAYS!!!!!, you do not lose arms, you lose your torso and the arm that was attached to it!

Mastered Stalkers have only TWO module slots! advance sensor module is one of the most useless modules out there, a complete waste of module space, any stalker mounting this is a net loss to their team. Which is why BAP is needed.

Advanced Target decay,
then a choice, either seismic or Arty.

Firing LRM's at ranges greater than 450M is a waste of ammo in most cases, firing indirect is also a waste of ammo in most cases, Not having artemis is bad,bad,bad. Not having TAG is very bad, in fact it is a distinct detriment.

DO NOT stray from the team, stay very close to your main body.

Your optimum engagement range is between 190M and 270M with a direct line of sight and your own tag on the target, This allows you to use your 3 to 5 Medium lasers as well as your LRM launchers, you do have at LEAST 3 MLasers, Right?

Always be moving, whether simply rocking back and forth or running along the back of your front line mechs.

Always count on your teammates to NEVER target an enemy mech!

Learn when to chain fire and when to group fire.

When you fire at an indirect target, carefully observe the effect of your LRM fire by watching both the missiles and your crosshairs to make sure it flashes red indicating that your missiles are hitting the mech and not an obstruction, if it is not turning red when the missiles reach the target, stop firing.

There is a lot to learn about LRM's in order to master them and make them effective against anyone, but anyone can make them easily devastate new or stupid players.

Let's just ignore 90% of your stubborn post that is unwilling to consider or even process some of what I wrote.

Yes, I forgot that Stalkers come with only 1 module. Advanced Target Decay is the most important one. After that, Advanced sensor range works just fine if you want to fire from 800 meters away. Anything less than that, you can bring whichever module you want. I would personally recommend using Seismic sensor. Arty, is a bad choice, the reason that Advanced Sensor Range is better than most is because it allows you to actually suppress the enemy team from a distance. Instead of leaving your team starved for support while you lumber your way towards the front line so you're within 300 meters to engage.

What good is BAP for you. You can't get a lock on an ECM mech to fire your missiles at it anyways. I suggested 400 meters as the optimal range for engagement, and you're saying it should be shorter, in that case why are you using BAP? Your mech can get locks up to 800 meters just on it's own, with no equipment. BAP won't accelerate lock on time, and the range is useless, when an ECM mech is hitting you at 180 meters, your LRMs are useless, so the counter ECM function is useless too.

Also, your whole analysis is based on your weird playstyle where you are using LRMs as a direct fire weapon. It's a play style that is completely negligent of the team you are on. Regardless of how well you perform, your team is going to suffer because of your play style, If you want to be fully independent fine, but carry your weight, and don't get unnecessary deaths on your team, just because you're kill hungry.

No wonder you want a Standard engine in there. No wonder you say optimum range is under 300. You play your stalker like it's a brawler, but with LRMs. That's your playstyle. It's wrong, but that's your playstyle.

A proper indirect fire support mech doesn't need to be THAT close to the fight. Also, you shouldn't be getting hit in the first place, not until half your team is dead anyways, and by that point, it won't make a difference if you live for 10 seconds more.

Another important role for F.S.Us (Fire Support Units, which is what you are), is suppression and indirect fire support for multiple friendlies. You're a force multiplier. Your job should be to find a proper location from which to rain fire on any enemy engaged with your friendlies. Regardless of whether or not you hit or miss. At the very least, you force them to duck behind cover and save your allies from a few seconds of damage. At best, you wreck their mech in one or two salvos.

However, whatever you do. Don't be THAT selfish when in an LRM boat.

All in all, you have an unorthodox play style, that is more suited for SRMs, instead of LRMs, basically, what you are piloting is built as a fire support unit, but you don't pilot it that way.

As for Artemis, as I said, it's optional, works best with smaller launcher numbers, however, it's a personal taste matter, this time I highlighted it, so you can read that part more clearly.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 31 May 2014 - 04:53 AM.

[Koniks]

BAP isn't so you can target the ECM light. It's so you can target the rest of the team while your team takes care of the light.

And if you're not using your LRMs as direct fire weapons, then you shouldn't take Artemis. And Artemis works best with larger launchers. The 5s are already going to hit the CT most of the time if they get through AMS. 10s aren't that much different from 5s.

Edited by Mizeur, 31 May 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[Koniving]

Because everyone else has provided the good help already, allow me to try to give you this simple little tip for the future.

Convince a friend to play. Throw said friend in a light mech. And tell him or her to press R while looking at targets. Instant spotter that you can order around.

[One of Little Harmony]

LRMs are some of the most difficult weapons to master because they require a lot of information that isn't written down.

1. Mech hardpoints only have a certain number of "tubes" for missiles. If you go above the amount of tubes, the amount of missiles you can fire at once is decreased. This can have consequences.

• a. AMS has more time to take out your missiles
  
• b. If you lose lock, you can only have the first "volley" hit but not the others.

2. You have to overcome several anti-LRM mechanisms

• a. AMS: an inexact rule of thumb is that AMS is able to take down 5 missiles before it hits a target. So, you might need to fire a lot of missiles to overcome AMS. So if you have LRM60, but it comes out in 3 waves and you're up against a stalker with dual AMS: 20(missiles per volley)-2(ams amount)*5=10 missiles per volley. 10*3= 30 missiles actually hit target. Of course, this is inexact because the amount is actually a little less than 5, there are some AMS range increase modules and positioning plays an effect to some degree.
  
• b. ECM. If someone with ECM is within 180m of your position you can't lock on to anything. Conversely, you can't lock on to a mech near an ECM mech unless you overcome it with tag, narc, or someone else's BAP.

3. You have to either get a lock and keep it, or at least reacquire it before it goes away. Most other weapons you can just aim on sight.
4. You have to know the spread of your missiles.

• a. Spread reduces to 75% of normal size with NARC
  
• b. Spread reduces to 75% of normal size with TAG
  
• c. Artemis with Line of Sight reduces spread to 66% of normal size
  
• d. You may still gain line of sight bonuses even without line of sight....it's kind of bugged.

5. You have to know what can stack

• a. Tag can stack with Artemis
  
• b. Tag can stack with narc
  
• c. Narc is not supposed to stack with Artemis
  
• d. Narc sometimes still stacks with Artemis because of bugs.

And there's more, but this is what I think are the salient points of the day.

Overall, I do not recommend playing in the back of the field for LRM boats, instead you should play very closely to the front lines, if not at them. If you're in an assault mech, so you can take a lot of hits. Just be careful of pinpoint meta builds that can take you out with a couple of hits. Also, if you're bad at taking on lights (as many assault pilots are) you are more likely to get someone to assist you with them when they're nearby and an easy target. (Because the light is attacking you, and not them)

Edited by One of Little Harmony, 02 June 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[Hamish McPiton]

You can get overwhelmed by all the tag, narc, etc, etc. I think the main thing that will make you a better missile mech' is experience and learning the maps, and then positioning within your team during matches. I never want to be out on the end, or right in the front, or the certain death by lights of being way back in the rear. Learn where the enemy can hide from the missiles and watch your target when the missiles should hit - no damage = pick another target.
I can't remember if it was Kon or one of the other super helpful guys on here but it was advice about Jagers that works for LRM boats, too - "You want to be too dangerous to be left alive but too hard to get at to kill". Pay as much attention to where you are on the map and where the rest of your team is as you do your locks.

Another thing - when I run my JM6-A (the missile Jager) I actively play anti-missile mech or counter battery fire and immediately target any Stalker, Cat, Awesome, or any other common missile boat. If you can launch my way my missiles can hit you, too. Back when there was that trial Catapult I felt sorry for folks using it - I always targeted it first.

Edited by Hamish McPiton, 31 May 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[Abivard]

IraqiWalker, on 31 May 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

Let's just ignore 90% of your stubborn post that is unwilling to consider or even process some of what I wrote.

Yes, I forgot that Stalkers come with only 1 module. Advanced Target Decay is the most important one. After that, Advanced sensor range works just fine if you want to fire from 800 meters away. Anything less than that, you can bring whichever module you want. I would personally recommend using Seismic sensor. Arty, is a bad choice, the reason that Advanced Sensor Range is better than most is because it allows you to actually suppress the enemy team from a distance. Instead of leaving your team starved for support while you lumber your way towards the front line so you're within 300 meters to engage.

What good is BAP for you. You can't get a lock on an ECM mech to fire your missiles at it anyways. I suggested 400 meters as the optimal range for engagement, and you're saying it should be shorter, in that case why are you using BAP? Your mech can get locks up to 800 meters just on it's own, with no equipment. BAP won't accelerate lock on time, and the range is useless, when an ECM mech is hitting you at 180 meters, your LRMs are useless, so the counter ECM function is useless too.

Also, your whole analysis is based on your weird playstyle where you are using LRMs as a direct fire weapon. It's a play style that is completely negligent of the team you are on. Regardless of how well you perform, your team is going to suffer because of your play style, If you want to be fully independent fine, but carry your weight, and don't get unnecessary deaths on your team, just because you're kill hungry.

No wonder you want a Standard engine in there. No wonder you say optimum range is under 300. You play your stalker like it's a brawler, but with LRMs. That's your playstyle. It's wrong, but that's your playstyle.

A proper indirect fire support mech doesn't need to be THAT close to the fight. Also, you shouldn't be getting hit in the first place, not until half your team is dead anyways, and by that point, it won't make a difference if you live for 10 seconds more.

Another important role for F.S.Us (Fire Support Units, which is what you are), is suppression and indirect fire support for multiple friendlies. You're a force multiplier. Your job should be to find a proper location from which to rain fire on any enemy engaged with your friendlies. Regardless of whether or not you hit or miss. At the very least, you force them to duck behind cover and save your allies from a few seconds of damage. At best, you wreck their mech in one or two salvos.

However, whatever you do. Don't be THAT selfish when in an LRM boat.

All in all, you have an unorthodox play style, that is more suited for SRMs, instead of LRMs, basically, what you are piloting is built as a fire support unit, but you don't pilot it that way.

As for Artemis, as I said, it's optional, works best with smaller launcher numbers, however, it's a personal taste matter, this time I highlighted it, so you can read that part more clearly.

People can follow your advice and they will suffer as players, they will cripple their team and always remain in the underhive.

They will die to lights constantly because they are 600 m or more away from the rest of the team.

The second an ECM mech comes within range their whole LRM system becomes neutralized

They will constantly suffer crippling ammo explosions because they carry twice the needed ammo which means you will have ammo in the wrong spots,

They will waste the vast majority of their ammo loads against environment or target loss due to the extreme ranges
.
It doesn't matter if your advanced targeting can make lock at 1000M, your missiles won't hit anything at that range, but your lack of seismic will guarantee you will be surprised ambushed by mechs ALL THE TIME.

I am not writing this advice to stroke your ego Iraqiwalker, but to help new players use LRM's better, and responding to the OP's request for how to play a stalker with LRM better than they are presently. He imply's he is solo dropping, so your advice on how to play a banshee lrm boat in a team environment in the underhive isn't going help anyone.

p.s. The fact that the enemy team seems to ignore you until they have killed all the rest of your team is an indicator that they do not consider your mech to be a threat to anyone on their team, not that your an awesome untouchable killing machine that brings home the wins for his team..

Edited by Abivard, 31 May 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Mizeur, on 31 May 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

BAP isn't so you can target the ECM light. It's so you can target the rest of the team while your team takes care of the light.

And if you're not using your LRMs as direct fire weapons, then you shouldn't take Artemis. And Artemis works best with larger launchers. The 5s are already going to hit the CT most of the time if they get through AMS. 10s aren't that much different from 5s.

Launcher numbers, not tube numbers. (so 3 missile hardpoints, instead of 5)

Abivard, on 31 May 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

People can follow your advice and they will suffer as players, they will cripple their team and always remain in the underhive.

They will die to lights constantly because they are 600 m or more away from the rest of the team.

The second an ECM mech comes within range their whole LRM system becomes neutralized

They will constantly suffer crippling ammo explosions because they carry twice the needed ammo which means you will have ammo in the wrong spots,

They will waste the vast majority of their ammo loads against environment or target loss due to the extreme ranges
.
It doesn't matter if your advanced targeting can make lock at 1000M, your missiles won't hit anything at that range, but your lack of seismic will guarantee you will be surprised ambushed by mechs ALL THE TIME.

I am not writing this advice to stroke your ego Iraqiwalker, but to help new players use LRM's better, and responding to the OP's request for how to play a stalker with LRM better than they are presently. He imply's he is solo dropping, so your advice on how to play a banshee lrm boat in a team environment in the underhive isn't going help anyone.

p.s. The fact that the enemy team seems to ignore you until they have killed all the rest of your team is an indicator that they do not consider your mech to be a threat to anyone on their team, not that your an awesome untouchable killing machine that brings home the wins for his team..

1- No one mentioned a banshee. It's a battlemaster

2- I never said the enemy team ignores me. I just position myself properly, so I stay close to the team, to provide support. If the enemy team manages to get to me, that means they've already taken out all of our front line mechs, and possibly all our second line mechs.

3- I never said fire the missiles at 1000 meters. I said that you don't need a sensor range beyond 1000 since the LRMs don't hit beyond that.

4- My job isn't to get kills, it's to support the team, and that means I need to have enough ammo to throw around on more than just 4 targets and then be empty, and a slow 4 ML platform.

5- I honestly don't care if you and I disagree over this. People have different play styles. I'm helping the OP pilot as an indirect fire support mech. You're helping him pilot as a streak boat.

6- If you stick close to the team, thus 400 meters from the front line, behind some proper cover, no lights will be able to take you down. Since it will only take your team's lights all of 2 seconds to be there to protect you.

7- I suggested under 600 meters (that cover 600-180 btw), because in the 600-400 meters range the missiles have a higher than average arc, causing them to by-pass lots of cover, and you'll still be within range of your team to protect you.

8- I'd rather waste 7 tons of ammo, on environment and minimal damage, to suppress the enemy team, than get 4 or so of my allies killed, because I want to get kills and don't really support them if they are more than 400 meters away from me.

Your piloting is very individualistic, and focused solely on yourself, I believe that if you bring LRMs, you are removing yourself from the front line, so you can support everyone else on your team, and compensate of the lack of tonnage from an assault mech that way. If you bring LRMs, and still engage everyone at 200 meters, you might as well just bring LLs, that way you'll be more efficient at the front line.

9- As for ECM lights neutralizing your ability to lock on to targets when they are close to you. I'll concede that point. However, I will say this: there are 11 other players on your team, ask someone to help chase them off. On the other hand, BAP does have that one advantage. I'll give you that.


All in all, we have different play-styles, and while you have some valid points, you and I will disagree on the rest, and that stems from our individual approach to piloting. You have your way, and I have mine.

[Fiona Marshe]

Everyone's advice is wildly varied, but here's my advice.

1. You're over gunned. While you *can* carry that many tubes, it doesn't mean you *should* carry that many. Heat dissipation and flexibility is more important than tube count; especially PUGing.

4 x A-LRM10s with ~1300-1600 rounds (I'd recommend running with only 1200 rounds to try and break some of the bad habits you're picking up; efficiency of fire can score more than spamming everything in sight). Backup weapons of TAG + either 2 LL or 4 ML and as many heatsinks as possible in the remaining space. If you're feeling adventurous, load a NARC with 2 tons of ammo (quite effective if you can land it before they reach you).

2. I stopped using the Stalker as my missile chassis over a year ago. Reason? A static target waiting to be killed. A Stalker does not have the mobility to keep moving with the group and change the flight pathing fast enough to get around targets in cover. The only things you will hit are low-ELO pugs and pilots caught in the open during a push. Mobility is life (and kills) for any mech; LRM boats included. Playing firebase just attracts Spider and Jenner pilots to eat you while you're isolated.

3. Follow the Atlas-D-DC. Always. Shoot what the Atlas shoots at. Always.

You are a *support* mech, not an uber-god of missile mayhem. You won't rack up huge damage totals (400-600 damage will be the average match), but reducing the Time To Kill for the Atlas pilot will keep you and your team alive longer. Longer match = more damage, assists and kill-steals.

4. Take a close look at the xp/c-bill reward tables. Missile boats get rewarded for one thing; damage and kills. The big rewards come from "saviour kills" and NARC/TAG/ECM Assists. This means you need to be in the main fight spotting your targets with TAG/NARC. Streaks (common) and other LRM mechs (less common) will rack those rewards up quickly for you, negating the need for huge damage totals.

[Ursh]

First of all, I'd look at not using the stalker as a pure LRM boat. A couple of launchers on it to support the team and do some fire suppression are good, but a varied loadout is better overall for a STalker. Some large lasers or ppcs work wonders with high gunmounts. The necessity of using an xl engine is death for the stalker if a light gets behind your lines. If you're pugging a lot, don't expect any help from your teammates if you're 200+ meters behind them when the lights come for you.

If you really want to lrm, the best mech for it right now is in my opinion the BLR-1S

I routinely do 400-950+ damage with it using a lot of direct fire to make the most out of TAG+Artemis. It may seem that my ammo count is low, but in matches where I run out of ammo, the enemy team has usually run out of most of their mechs. I don't recall losing a match where I've run out of ammo. Obviously, I have bad matches as well, but matches that go badly for me tend to go bad for the whole team, because the other team was simply better. In those matches the ammo doesn't matter because you can't use it once you're dead.

I check the map to see if there's a blue triangle with eyes on the red triangle before I fire, which also helps conserve ammo. But mostly I like direct fire because tag+artemis is brutal with chainfire, and I can stop firing when I see the enemy is about to reach hard cover.

Stay very close to the front line, only hang back a tad if your team is navigating their way into a knife-fight range brawling area.

If you hang back doing the indirect fire role, you're relying on someone else for locks, relying on the enemy team to have terrible light pilots, and relying on your teammates to come back and help you if some enterprising fast medium and light lance have snuck around and found you sitting there all alone. That more or less requires you to be in at least a four man team with voicecomms and a dedicated spotter.

[Draconeran]

I find this forum to have some good insight. As a player who loves LRMs I find every one has a different style they like out of their LRM boat.
1. One big volley LRM 40-80
2. Rainmaker as many LRM 5s you can carry in chain fire. 4 min to work well
3. Combination of the two
For a Stalker I might go with http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1f33fa95d339784

I find the fire rate of a 15 and 5 vs 20 to be a lot better
Unfortunately the Stalkers biggest tubes are on the arms and only 10s so 15s and 20s only fire 10 at first then the rest.
Firing your sides on separate buttons helps a lots. I.E. Left mouse for all left side and right mouse for all right side. I use the third button for my support weapon.
Use cycle fire on hot maps if you need it.

I don't own any stalkers but here are my missile builds that do me well. 400-600 most matches 800+ on a great day.
GRF-3M
CPLT-C4

One fast harasser and one slow pain maker.
Hope this help someone

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

So, lots of advice on what to load up with and what modules you'll need.

But, very little on how the support element must operate to actually 'provide support'.

Some items I've used that allows your team to actually want the support.
- If your not on comms, type in at the mission start that you will provide LRM's for their targets.
- ignore the spam being typed back at you,
- those that will really want and need LRM's will now know that you are there.
- BE THERE, when they need you, follow around/behind the lead elements.
- It does no good for you or your team if you are 800m behind them with a reach of only 1000m.
- Plan your routes that you are going to move, and have a backup if something changes.
(This might not always be something that you can completely accomplish, but 'read' where the team is moving and plan accordingly. Your there support, not a lone gun.)

- Never stay in one place for more that a few launch's, the missile trails work both ways.
- The Enemy lights and LRM hunters are just waiting for a direction to move to 'get you'.
- Try never to be 'out of Friendly support', don't go off to a flank they can't help you out of.

Watch the Battle progress and try anticipating the direction you will need to launch your LRM' in. If there are launch obstacles in your way plan accordingly.

- As the Enemy target Id's are presented and you see there load-outs, try to keep this in mind.
1. Those with long range weapons, those with brawling systems, and where the ECM Mech's are.
2. the long range Mech's tend to seek covered firing locations, and you'll loose them quickly.
3. the Brawlers need to be exposed to deliver there weapons, longer locks.
4. Seek those targets as they will be normally attacking your lead elements and the lock should stay long enough for your 'Support' to actually make a difference.

- Watch the flank locations of your friendly Mech's as they battle, Enemies will try to flank.
- If you can lock them before they get where they are going, your team will see them on there HUD's.
- Firing on these flankers may deter any plans they had, but you may now be there target.

- Firing on the move always works better, but requires a keen sense of direction and planning, keeping your targets locked till the missiles impact.
- Moving diagonally behind your team presents the enemy with a moving target that changes range and makes for a difficult target.
- If you only need to present your shoulders or upper torso to launch then seek a launch position(s) that will give you cover from fire as well as cover from view.

- Link TAG into all of your weapons systems,
- Firing a 'direct shoot' at an Enemy may loose the first few missiles but the TAG will lock on for everything following.
- Keep your situational awareness, if the Enemy is pushing, provide support fire as you fall back, it may just be enough to turn the tide.
(this requires good knowledge of the terrain you just walked through, and steering in reverse while firing, keeping the targets locked, possibly some torso twisting, remembering your minimum range for the Missiles, keeping you heat managed, and occasionally throwing in some energy weapons as the target closes.)

Keep Calm! and here's your towel, you'll need it.

- Get the maximum range from your sensors with the advanced sensors
- Include BAP to push this even further
- Load up the advanced target decay and the target info gathering.[You may now be out of Modules slots!]
(better to know the load-out of the Enemy in wither it has sniper, missile, or brawling systems.)

Sidenote:
The Stalker might not be the optimal Mech for a full on LRM load carrier, due to the reduced Modules and it's speed on the Battlefield. It was originally designed as an all range fighter and didn't depend on just the long range to complete is mission.

Good luck,
9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 01 June 2014 - 07:22 AM.

[Bront]

Worms4u, on 30 May 2014 - 12:29 PM, said:

Anyway.. I got a stalker recently with 2xLRM 20, 2xLRM10, and some SRM's for close range defense.

All missles have ARTEMIS, I also run with a tag.

I'm sure some of this has been covered before, but I'd like to go into some of it anyway.

1) I am a HUGE proponent of builds that pay attention to the number of tubes in any hardpoint. An LRM20 in a 10 tube launcher is mildly annoying as you get 2 waves of 10 LRMs, at a spread closer to the LRM20, so your missiles get eaten up by AMS faster, AND you spread damage more.

2) LRM10s have, in my personal experience, one of the best spreads of the LRM. Denser than the LRM5, not as wide as the LRM15 or 20. Beyond that, they pierce AMS fairly well, and heat is pretty good. LRM5s and 15s are more tonnage efficient, making them usable as well. LRM20s are the most space inefficient and tonnage inefficient launchers. (Tonnage wise, launchers are 2, 5, 7, and 10, and space wise, they're 1, 2, 3, and 5 for the LRM 5, 10, 15, and 20 respectively.)

3) Knowing when to alpha, and went to chain fire is important. Chain firing is useful for area denial, ammo conservation, and the suppression effect, where as an alpha can finish a damaged target, put an initial hurt on a target, or pierce lots of AMS.

4) Let your teammates know you're bringing LRMs. Pugs won't always support you with LRMs, but they'll usually try if you tell them you'll give them support firepower.

5) Be ultra-aware of your position. It's easy to get overwhelmed if you're caught alone, and it's easy to be in a position where you can't hit your target due to obstacles.

6) Know your arcs. Under 400M, LRM arcs are not very high, where as they get higher after 400M. most noticeably an issue when behind cover.

7) TAG and Artemis require LOS to be helpful (or are supposed to), so be aware of LOS.

8) Bring AMS. LRM boats are good targets for LRMs.

9) Bring some backup weapons. On a stalker, I've had great success with a 2 x ALRM10, 2XALRM5, 2xLL + 2xAMS and TAG, on other mechs, 2-4 MLs can be helpful. For the LL build, your direct fire can supplement your LRM damage, while on ML builds, the MLs are backup short range weapons. When I pilot lights, LRM boats with no supplemental weapons are generally termed "lunch".

10) Drop with friends. LRM boats work better on teams, and it's easier to call out targets on a voice chat.

11) Maintain locks. Look your missiles in when you can, or else they'll stop tracking.

Other than that, practice. It's an art as much as anything, and not as easy as "Lock, fire, repeat"

[Koniks]

IraqiWalker, on 31 May 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Launcher numbers, not tube numbers. (so 3 missile hardpoints, instead of 5)

Pretty much irrelevant. If you're firing 15+ missiles at a time and you plan to be LOS, you want Artemis.

And there's huge value in having LRMboats that can engage with LOS between 200-400m. Namely, more of their missiles will hit, and more of their missiles will hit the CT.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Advice:
- Stalkers need standard engines, I tried an XL in one the last week and the number of matches I end with a side torso blown off with a standard engine and die in with an XL has made me a believer in that.
- BAP to deter one ECM light from affecting you, two you are in trouble.
- Target Decay
- advanced sensor range after mastering the mech. So you can see them out farther, but could be replaced with seismic sensors.
- pairing up with a light spotter with TAG and two other LRM mechs. This is a devastating lance, even if someone wants to charge you. With this type of lance on Alpine or Caustic Valley it is fire twice dead, next.
- Chain fire or volley fire, depends. The amount of AMS you see after you fire and your tube counts. Chain fire can kill quicker than volley fire. Tube count also affect the effectiveness of volley fire where chain fire may not be needed. This is time on target - the number of times in a given period that damage is being done to your target. Also remember, do you have a snap shot with only 2 to 4 second exposures on river city or do you have someone out in the open on Alpine.
- Have TAG
- Have some back up weapons, for those lights that get through. 5 ML's in a stalker can tear apart a jenner or put an already damaged medium, heavy or assault out of action. The builds with 3 or 4 are not that bad either.
- If you can see that stationary Atlas-D-DC dump fire on him about two volleys, since he will be reacting to the first when the second hits and that is when you hit him with TAG.
- Know what areas you can not hit due to buildings or Terrain. Or learn, just like you are doing now.
- Know the areas that you will hit the terrain or buildings in front of you.
- My best hit percentage is with LRM 10, then LRM 15, LRM 5 and last LRM 20's. This may be due to broken locks, AMS or using tube counts smaller than the launcher.
- Artemis, is a great thing and does focus missiles on the target, but a tighter grouping on the target.

One thing to note, I bought a 3F stalker (The one with the best twist range last Sunday and purchased The 5M Friday.) I had a theory about the tube counts with chain fire that I had to try. I expected a higher KDR due to this. Then I realized I normally due this in other mechs by varying the tube sizes and when and when not to volley or chain fire.



Lets begin with how tube count affects the number of times you hit a target.

6 tubes
LRM 15 - Initial fire, 6, 0.5 seconds later 6, 0.5 seconds later 3, 3.25 seconds later restart.
4.25 seconds total or 3 hits
LRM 20 - initial fire, 6, 0.5 seconds later 6, 0.5 seconds later 6, 0.5 seconds later 2, 3.25 seconds later restart
4.75 secons total or four hits
LRM 10 - initial fire, 6, 0.5 seconds later 4, 3.25 seconds later restart
3.75 seconds total or two hits
LRM 5 - initial fire 5 3.25 seconds later restart
3.25 seconts total for one hit

10 tubes
LRM 15 - Initial fire, 10, 0.5 seconds later 5, 3.75 seconds later restart.
4.25 seconds total for two hits
LRM 20 - initial fire, 10, 0.5 seconds later 10, 4.25 seconds later restart
4.75 seconds total or two hits
LRM 10 - initial fire, 10, 3.75 seconds later restart
3.75 seconds total for one hit
LRM 5 - initial fire 5 3.25 seconds later restart
3.25 seconds total for one hit

for 15 tubes
LRM 15 - Initial fire, 15, 4.25 seconds later restart.
4.25 seconds total for one hit
LRM 20 - initial fire, 15, 0.5 seconds later 5, 4.25 seconds later restart
4.75 seconds total or two hits
LRM 10 - initial fire, 10, 3.75 seconds later restart
3.75 seconds total for one hit
LRM 5 - initial fire 5 3.25 seconds later restart
3.25 seconds total for one hit

For 20 tubes
LRM 15 - Initial fire, 15, 4.25 seconds later restart.
4.25 seconds total for one hit
LRM 20 - initial fire, 20, 4.75 seconds later restart
4.75 seconds total for one hit
LRM 10 - initial fire, 10, 3.75 seconds later restart
3.75 seconds total for one hit
LRM 5 - initial fire 5 3.25 seconds later restart
3.25 seconds total for one hit

So now firing in a 3F stalker, 2 x 10 tube and 2 x 6 tube missile hard points. Using 2 LRM 15's and 2 x LRM 10's.
Volley fire for three volleys.
Fire 32 missiles, .5 seconds later 18 missiles, first volley done 3.25 seconds later 12 missiles, .5 seconds later 28 missiles, .5 seconds later 10 missiles, second volley done 2.75 seconds later 12 missiles, .5 seconds later 8 missiles, . 5 seconds later 20 missiles, .5 seconds later 10 missiles, third volley done.
total time: 9 seconds, 150 missiles with 9 periods of hits.

Chain fire
Fire 10 missiles, .5 seconds 5 missiles, .5 seconds 6 missiles, .5 seconds 4 missiles, .5 seconds 6 missiles, .5 seconds 4 missiles, .5 seconds 10 missiles, .5 seconds 5 missiles, 1.25 seconds 10 missiles, .5 seconds 5 missiles, .5 seconds 6 missiles, .5 seconds 4 missiles, .5 seconds 6 missiles, .5 seconds 4 missiles, .5 seconds 10 missiles, .5 seconds 5 missiles, 1.25 seconds 10 missiles, .5 seconds 5 missiles, .5 seconds 6 missiles, .5 seconds 4 missiles, .5 seconds 6 missiles, .5 seconds 4 missiles, .5 seconds 10 missiles, .5 seconds 5 missiles.
Total time: 15 seconds for 150 missiles with 24 periods of hits.
At 9.5 seconds for 110 missiles with 17 periods of hits.

Now using a Jagermech A with 4 LRM 15's with four 15 tube count hard points
volley fire
Fire 60 LRMs, 4.25 seconds later 60 LRMs, 4.25 seconds later 60 LRMs.
Time 8.5 seconds for 180 LRMs with three periods of hits.

Chain fire:
Fire 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs, 2.75 seconds later 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs, 2.75 seconds later 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs, .5 seconds 15 LRMs
Time 10 seconds, for 180 LRMs with 12 periods of hits.
at 8.5 seocnds 135 LRMs, with 9 periods of hits.

Cat A1 with 6 LRM 5.
Volley
Fire 30, 3.25 seconds, 30, 3.25 seconds.
time for three volleys 6.5 seconds for 90 missiles and three periods of hits.

Chain fire (OMG)
Fire 5,5,5,5,5,5 ,5,5,5,5,5,5 ,5,5,5,5,5,5
9 seconds for 90 missiles with 18 periods of hits
6.5 seconds for 65 missiles with 13 periods of hits.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 01 June 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[Barkem Squirrel]

Almost for got

Number of LRMs to carry. Think that you want to fire 36 times.

4 tons for LRM 20
3 tons for LRM 15
2 tons for LRM 10
1 ton for LRM 5.

It is also affected by your play stile, individual mechs on how you adjust the number of tons of LRM ammo that you carry to suit your needs as in everything with this game.

[Zordicron]

There is a lot of advice good and bad on this thread so far. I will put my own advice here too, both as general LRM play and also some about stalkers.

Stalkers:

I played mine as fighters, I dont think i even put a LRM on one of them. All my K/D were above 1, most above 2, W/L solid positive also. Mostly I put LL and SRm on, I think the one with 5 missile points i ran lolstreaks, poor, poor light mech that thought it could pick on the cumbersome stalker. Anyway, the thing MUST have a std engine, std 300 is my norm, though depending on what you go with the max engine is ok too. Dont put a puny engine in the thing, it already turns slow and a small engine will make it unplayable. If you keep moving in a fight, and dont pull a leroy jenkins or do a rambo/death march out into focus fire, you are a tough cookie. never understood the squishy stalker comments, the thing survives, always, with a std engine- you lose ST pretty much every match and keep pluggin. What that means is the enemy has to basically strip all the armor off your mech before it can take you out. There arent many mechs in the game(centurian) that can also say this.

So: STD engine, no matter what, dont skimp on it rating wise. Stalker like ML and LL, with missile support, moreso then missiles with some laser support, though you can make that work to(I prefer LURMPOCKOLYPSE, my awesome 8R for lrm boating, but the one battlemaster and even that one orion are pretty solid also, oh and of course traditional catapult)

So for LRM play:

You dont want to be that guy standing at 850M with like one other team mae shooting into a total blind. Thats what n00bs do. Especially a pug drop, you just dont know if they are targeting a mech and will hold it long enough for you to hit, or EVEN IF IT IS A VIABLE TARGET. That last part, that is the failure of most lrm boats on pug matches. When I spot on a pug, I will drop a target if I see a lrm mech on my team shooting at it with my lock, and it has no chance to actually hit due to cover. Most players dont do that, because they dont even know they are actually spotting for you, they just happen to have that enemy targeted. So, again, standing in the way back shooting over a cliff to a mech 850M away you cant see or know nothing about is FAIL.

Move with your team. This goes to loadouts too. Move with the big boys, not in front, and be mindful of where you are so you can fire. Big boys going tunnel, well, hang back, tell them you wont be able to help in that situation. If they ignore you, go with them anyway. If most of your team went into tunnel, and you decide to hang out, you will be way back and fall to patroling lights, or fall into that blindfire useless stuff again. Hopefully tunnel team exits tunnel also, and you can help at that time.

otherwise, stay within 400M of your brawlers. "But I will get shot at!" No F'ing way man!! In a mechwarrior game you will get shot at?!! Who cares. You are in your STD engine stalker, or Awesome 8R with LRM60 of instant gank(plus tag) or whatnot. IF you stuck with your team, and IF they can get a shot at you, it means you have LOS on them, and are likely in tag range, and your team is also there helping protect you and keeping some of the enemy busy. LRM's work best within 350M, but past 225M. Travel time is reduced to irrelevent, they cant hide, your LOS plus artemis plus tag if you can= holy gank. My KDR on my awesome 8R is almost 4/1. Tag plus 60 missiles on CT of atlas even = he cant in any way come close to killing me before he eats dirt. On Stalker, it would be similar, but you would add some LL fire with your LRM, more on that in a sec.

So, with me so far? Stay closer to your team, GET YOUR OWN TARGETS dont just rely on flakey spotters, especially on pugs= no getting flanked by LRM hunters and much much better hit ratios due to LOS and travel times.

So then loadouts:

Engine: stick with basic rules per chassis. Stalker=std engine, etc. Awesome 8R is THE exception, due to needing room in ST for 2 LRM15/artemis so no XL. But Awesome in general is an odd duck in this game, and I dont recomend it to anyone that is still getting comfortable with their playstyle and other mechanics of the game. Anyway, as a rule, LRM20 is reserved for mechs with very limited hardpoints(like T-bolt 5SS with one point, or atlas K) because it gets you most bang for buck of the point. Even a 2 hardpoint mech does better with LRM15, due to recycle time and heat/tonnage(except maybe catapult C4, because of lack of backup weapons) The real bottom line, many times less is more. That stalker you have for instance, lapping a pair of LRM 15 on it, or maybe 4x LRM10, and freeing tonnage for some LL, even just a pair of LL, Is going to make the mech perform better in more situations. It also allows you to defend yourself.

Think of it this way: LRM mech, you ill be with your team, so having some lasers to shoot at the enemy on top of the LRM fire is going to really be effective as you are going to be in range anyway. PLUS if your enemy is playing peek-a-boo with a large rock for cover, LRM fire might not be effective, but a pair of LL will be, and might be enough to persuade the enemy to leave his cover for another tactic(hopefully one that allows you to LL AND LRM him). Lights coming to get the LRM boat? HAH, take this light mech(PEW) Find yourself going tunnel with your team? At least you have something to fight with. 4x ML is also ok here if you cant find tonnage.

Exception again: Awesome 8R. I couldnt find tonnage for more then a pair of ML, but once again, Awesome is a strange beast, and best left till you know what you are doing. Even my very missile heavy battlemaster I cut a little speed for and slapped 4 ML on it. 4 ML is still 20 dmg, nothing to sneeze at and enough to make lights know you arent a no skill kill.

BAP: use it, why wouldnt you? It has nice bonuses, and your LRM platform is going to benefit from it. DDC getting to close for comfort? Well, his sneaky ways are foiled. Add the sensor range and on some maps, there is no place for an enemy to hide, within range or not, knowing where the enemy is is a big advantage.

TAG: if you have more then LRM15 equipped, likely worth it, more then LRM 25 equipped, 90% of the time it was worth it. Beyond that you should have the laser pointer pointed at every target you have. 1 ton, 1 hardpoint, with lots of missiles in a LOS target situation within 400M(because you followed your team)= GANK. Poor, Poor HBK's(and jagers), how many times have I removed your effectiveness from the match in one salvo because you tried to line up that silly AC20 shot at me from 300M? lol. anyway......

Ammo: You have now equipped your LRm platform with tools to defend yourself and not just blind missile spam, tools to help fight with your team in the actual combat zone and not just missile spam from the home base, and your engine is big enough for you to keep up with the team and not make you into an eggshell(no XL stalkers). So, you should run out of ammo. not until the match is well decided(either way, if you are going to lose, your LRM splats will likely get nulled by a brawler closing the gap on you, you DO need some pals around to help focus fire even with instagank Awesome 8R) If you finish a match, consistently with 100+ missiles left n reserve, well whats the point then? besides, you run out of missiles, and there is 3 enemies left? odds are you are in just as good a shape as your team mates, and you are in a tough stalker!(or otherwise, most decent LRM playforms are fairly tough) So , get on those front lines and eat some dmg so your pals with more/better brawl weapons dont eat it as fast. Your W/L will be better. Besides, if you have 400 missiles left, and its down to the end, you are either going to have some left and win, or are asking for an ammo explosion and flaming death loss. End of match fights always come down to shorter range combat unless someone is playing CoD ecm raven or something. You dont want 400 missiles worth of liability when you are going to end up in a brawl anyway in the last 3 minutes.

So, still with me? Stick with your team, within 200M of your front lines, 400M of your target is best. Equip lots of missile launchers, but only as many as what you can fit WITH some backup lasers, 2 LL or 4 ML. Less can be more. Put enough ammo on that you run out by the end of the match. Dont use an XL engine in a mech that sucks wit it, and use an engine that is big enough to let you use those backup weapons you put on decently. Talk to your team, tell them you have LRm's, but dont be "LRM boat, targets plz" go get your own damn targets because you will be 200% more effective. ASK IF THERE IS ANY NARC! Then, watch for it. NARC is like a giant bullseye painted on whatever that lets your missiles turn into max range insta gank heatseeking radar guided doom launchers. If you see a NARC in range, alpha strike missiles till you overheat. Seriously, poor it on.

Finally, good LRM platforms:
Awesome 8R, but not until you figure out other stuff
battlemaster
C1 catapult
Stalker(but facewreckz brawlstalker is just as good)
Then there is some others, but these others arent seen as much IMO
Orion
Kintaro(smaller launchers, but can be very mobile and devestating in a good players hands)
Trebuchet(see above)
c4 catapult(nnot as good as C1 cause of no backup weapons)
A1 pult(see above)
Highlander(sort of a waste of 90 tons IMO, but has good tubes)
The one HBK, 4j I think can use LRm veryy effectively as a close support mech(LRm and some ML at 300M as you stand next to your atlas pal)
Jager A(I prefer SRM splatjager)
I have seen some wolverines and griffins, but they are usually better equipped as direct fire suppot mechs.

Basically regardless of what you choose though, the playstyle I talk about above and the loadouts remain similar. Stick with the team and use launchers WHILE YOU MOVE and equip back up/brawl lasers.

Remember this: a camping mech is a dead mech. This is true for any build of any mech. Stand there long enough, the enemy will find a way to shoot you from advantage.

[Vanguard319]

Lunatech, on 30 May 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Nothing is as effective as being on comms with a dedicated spotter calling out targets and tagging/NARCing for you or getting your own locks. Relying on indirect fire in pugs is, as you've been finding out, literally hit and miss.

This, indirect fire is only as effective as your spotter. if they can maintain LoS, then you can let it rain, if they can't do so to save their life, then you are going to waste a lot of ammo trying to take out one target. Ideally, if your spotter is carrying a Tag, NARC or UAV, then you should be good for indirect fire. If they aren't, be prepared to rely more on direct fire.

[RLBell]

Mizeur, on 31 May 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

BAP isn't so you can target the ECM light. It's so you can target the rest of the team while your team takes care of the light.

And if you're not using your LRMs as direct fire weapons, then you shouldn't take Artemis. And Artemis works best with larger launchers. The 5s are already going to hit the CT most of the time if they get through AMS. 10s aren't that much different from 5s.

The other use for the BAP is that other LRM equipped mechs can fire on the ECM mech.

[Abivard]

RLBell, on 01 June 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

The other use for the BAP is that other LRM equipped mechs can fire on the ECM mech.

Don't forget, it also allows your team to see there is an ECM light attacking you!
In fact there is a whole slew of things BAP does for you.

[Domoneky]

Don't discount the psychological effect of LRMs. 9 times out of 10 most pilots will either disengage (Lights and mediums) or seek cover (Heavies and Assaults). This effectively puts a Mech out of the fight for a second or two. Good units and capitalize on this to move up and gain ground or allow certain units to lay down some suppressive fire.
There isn't really a point in having Artemis if you plan on hanging back behind the line some and unloading missiles on a target if you don't have LOS. That's more for weapons like SRMs that require LOS to be used effectively. ECMs will shut down your LRMs which is why its always good to have a fall back weapon like lasers. Lasers need no target locks plus they are ammo independent thus allowing you to stay combat effective despite the loss of firepower. The biggest thing though is going to be experience. Its going to take you a few matches to help optimize your build to how you are best comfortable and best effective in combat. However, it would behoove of you to remember that you will engage targets within your minimum firing distance, you will run out of ammo, and you will be outmaneuvered. the first two are easily solved by using short range weapons and energy weapons. the third is with a team.