18 replies to this topic

[Sacred Solace]

Hello, everyone! I am in need of advice for medium mech builds. The story is as such:

I have been piloting the Raven 4X for a while now due to its outstanding versatility as a light mech. However, I have essentially done all I can for it. I have unlocked through the elite tier skills and recieved various bonuses, and have built it as such:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...513862df5263b69

I am very happy with this loadout, and it regularly gets me 300 damage, sometimes up to 500 and even 600.

But again, there isn't much I can do with the Raven. I've essentially built the perfect build for my playstyle, and I don't think the other light mechs can get much better. Therefore, I want to move up to the medium mech class.

I currently have no predisposition as to what mech I want, or even what role it should be. Any suggestions would be welcome, and I would be thankful for them.

So I ask, what medium mechs do you think are best? Which ones do you think would suit me? And once more, thank you!

[I 0____o I]

No JJs? You're basically forgoing the one advantage that the 4X has over other Ravens.

[Sacred Solace]

I don't use the 4X for JJ's, I use it for the machine guns. The jump jets would drag my speed down about 10-15kph, which is simply too much for me. But that's just my preference. You could also drop the machine guns and strap on the jump jets. But again, preference. It's just what's been working for me.

[Void Angel]

Well, to translate your Raven directly into a Medium, you're looking at a Blackjack. You're going to be slower, but you also get jump jets. If you were wanting to branch out more, the Shadowhawk is an excellent all-around choice - however, I can't say how it relates to the Griffin and Wolverine, since I haven't piloted those 'mechs.

Edited by Void Angel, 30 May 2014 - 10:06 PM.

[ArchSight]

When upping the tonnage of your mech choices they'll gain an increase in armor points per cap and more tons to use for the armmament but will loose speed due to the engine increasing in weight. Your play style will slightly change to compenstate for these subtle differences tell you get used to the next 5 tons.

Sense you pilot a raven used for harrassment/flanking your already partially trained to play as a medium pilot. Many medium pilots out fit their mechs for long range harrassment/flanking with a couple heavy ranged weapons, A fast engine that gets them near 100kph(96kph) with speed tweak, and extra firepower to reach near a 30 firepower rating to defend themselves in a brawl with lights. Thats the average build i see running around with mediums but there is other ways to run a medium like the LRM medium mechs like the hybrid HBK-4j, the griffen and the trebuchet. Brawling mediums are usually light killers with many streaks or an ac20 mounted glass cannon build. Once SRM's are 100% hit reg you'll likely see faster glass cannons with those instead of an ac 20 due to weight savings and damage.

Currently there is one 40 ton medium that runs almost as fast as a light called the cicada which has a ecm varient. There is one 45 ton medium that has high mounted hard points, jump jets and one fast variant(BJ-1X) without jump jets which is called the Black Jack. At 50 tons there is three varients: the Hunch Back, the centurion(zombie mech), and the trebuchet. The trebuchet is the fastest and has two jump jet varients. The TBT-7K varient has high mounted ballistic and energy hard ponts with out jump jets. There are four 55 ton mediums: Griffen, Wolverine, Kintaro and the shadow hawk. Most of them have the same max engine ratings capable of getting to 116kph with speed tweak. The shadow hawk has high mounted hard points with jump jets. The griffen and wolverine has jump jets and the kintaro doesn't have jump jets.

I'm not going to pick for you. Your going to have decide what mech is going to be a happy choice for you.

I also like to add that in order to unlock the third module slot for your raven light mechs you'll need another light chassis elited.

Edited by ArchSight, 30 May 2014 - 11:22 PM.

[Sacred Solace]

Thank you for your feedback! It looks like the blackjack and the shadowhawk would suit me well. I like the speed of the blackjack, and the shadowhawk looks like a good choice because I love omnimechs for their versatility, and in addition it has a great high-mounted ballistic hardpoint for an ac10 or even a gauss rifle. I'll have to look into those.

[Sacred Solace]

So I've been working with the shadowhawk and blackjack, and these are two builds that in theory could be pretty effective. Still would like input from an experienced shadowhawk or blackjack pilot though!

Shadowhawk: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9e53577bae44440

Blackjack: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...28aeb5867902edf

Again, I'm no expert on these mechs, I just put together a couple builds that looked effective to me.

[xMintaka]

Drop a heatsink on the Shadowhawk to fit two jumpjets and it looks like a solid build.

One thing to keep in mind is the SHD's abysmal torso twist. If you're used to the Raven it's going to be something of a shock.

It's still a fantastic mech, but I prefer more agility in regards to torso twist so for the 55tonners I lean towards the Griffin. Despite it being generally considered worse than the Shawk.
It's also worth noting that it is possible to make any individual SHD move faster than the Blackjack.

Have you considered the Cicada? Has an ECM equipped variant, two good energy boats, one ballistic version and the hero packs two missile launchers.

[Sacred Solace]

I've tried the cicada, and for whatever reason absolutely hate it. I have no idea why, I'm just awful at using pretty much every variant. Which is strange, considering its striking resemblance to the raven. I think that maybe the blackjack would be more my speed. It's much more agile, which I like, and I've found a good sniping loadout now, as follows:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2bebfbd95f81277

It's pretty hot, but again it's designed to be a sniper.

I also did not know the Shadowhawk had such dismal agility. I will look at the griffin though. I've also been looking at the trebuchet since it is said to be remarkably agile.

Edited by Sacred Solace, 31 May 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[Sacred Solace]

Sorry for all the posts, but I made what I think would be a decent griffin:

XL engine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1136644b4a54917

Standard Engine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f75320969fdb3b5

I was also considering 2 large lasers, but I felt like I lost too much heat dissipation. Anyone know if that would be better?

Edited by Sacred Solace, 31 May 2014 - 06:14 AM.

[Spheroid]

The Shadow Hawk does not have terrible agility. Its torso twist rate is superior to the Griffin. Of the three variants I only like the 1N.

Nothing wrong with Blackjacks, always nice to see more in game.

[xMintaka]

Spheroid, on 31 May 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

The Shadow Hawk does not have terrible agility. Its torso twist rate is superior to the Griffin. Of the three variants I only like the 1N.

Nothing wrong with Blackjacks, always nice to see more in game.

I was referring to torso twist range but wasn't clear on it. Apologies for the misunderstanding.

With an equal engine, the Shadowhawk and Griffin feel the same on the ground. The Griffin can mount more JJ's plus it has far superior torso twist and lateral arm movement. With 2x basics it's possible to fire behind you.


Nothing quite like running from an assault while still pelting them with LRM's.

[Sacred Solace]

The only problem I have with the 1N is that every single weapon is mounted on one side, and if you lose that side, it's game over. And yeah I figured out that the griffin can reach 80 degrees farther with its torso, but is slower in the twist. I feel like this would be better for me personally, as I'm so used to the 120 degree twist raven.

As for the mechs, I feel like I'm going to get a blackjack first, and then advance to the heavier griffin. I'm trying to work my way up in weight, and I think this would be the best course of action for me personally. I'm feeling that the BJ-1 would be best, as it is the most versatile, has the best torso twist, and is jump-jet capable within the blackjack variants. The speed is going to be a big shift, but I think it's the next step for me.

[Void Angel]

But conversely, unless you're running an XL you can use the entire off-side as a shield - and unlike the poor Hunchback, the enemy can't just shoot the other side anyway. If you are running an XL, then it doesn't matter much - once you lose your torso weapons, you're spattered across the landscape anyway.

Because there's always someone who doesn't know, you can get a good idea of how a 'mech is going to behave by using Smurfy's Awesome Reference Page - you can even click on the torso twis range numbers to get the twist rates at various engine speeds.

[Ballimbo]

As I truly like Blackjacks (and perform the best in them of all my mechs), I would like to share my experiences with them.
First off I played this game only for a few months with breaks in between - so there are certainly much better pilots out there than I am. And I play all my Blackjacks with my individual playstyle, which is up close and personal with the opponents (it is almost a melee ). So I can't say much about long range snipering with BJ's.

So let me tell a bit about the "brawling" Blackjacks.

Let's start with it's two weaknesses:
- slowest speed for a medium (except the BJ-1X variant, but that has an annoying torso-twist limit)
- less armor than most other mediums (except the cicada, but which is must faster). So if you get focused, you'll quickly find yourself spectating

Strengths:
- Can bring a whole lot of firepower onto the field (many Hardpoints, evenly distributed over the chassis, high mounted hardpoints)

There are 2 conclusions from the above for a close-range fighting Blackjack:
- Go as fast as you can.
- Go for high(est) Alpha, not for dps.

Why?
You have to "brawl" with movement. The armor is too thin, and the internals to low on numbers, to expose yourself too long to enemy fire. That's also the reason why not to go for dps weapons. I mean weapons with long "face-time" on the enemy - if you expose your front for some seconds to the opponent, you'll get ripped apart. So you'll have to shoot, twist and fade away. And come again (best from another angle) to shoot again and fade. Think of drive-by tactics, or some sort of "fly low and hit hard" - just never stop moving.
Maybe that all sounds familiar for a light pilot (I don't have experience with lights), but it won't be the same. You're a lot slower in the BJ's. You can't zigzaging under the shots and whatever functions with lights when they're close. Don't try circling, that doesn't work with BJ's, you're too slow for that. Don't stand still near an enemy only because he's shooting somewhere else - he could just turn around or there could pop in another enemy, just never stand still. Lateral movement is your friend.
You have to use cover ALOT. Best evironment are the urban maps. When there isn't scenic cover, try to use other mechs (own and also enemies). Stay with you're teammates. You'll help your team best as an close-quarter escort / fire support mech. And you're good as an anti light. But don't hunt them, let them come in your range. You aren't as fast as them to chase them, but you're just fast enough for keeping them under your aim when they circle around you. A few good alphas and they're gone.

So returning to the builds. (let's keep the BJ-1X aside, this here is for the other three variants). Put in an XL 235 Engine. Yes, an XL. You'll be fragile in the BJ, as I said, but you also need a punch in firepower for the mentioned playstyle. Also, keep the Heat-efficiency on the minium. If all goes well, you won't be firing on cooldowns. You will fire your high alpha, reposition, and fire again, but by then, you should already got a bit cooler. For example my best build runs with 33% heat-effiency, and that works fine (and it would be lower, if we hadn't to put in another heatsink with that engine). On an variant with JJ's, I never needed all of them. 2 JJ's often are enough in my opinion. If you take a bigger balistic gun (as you should on the variants with ballistic ), three to four tons of ammunition is enough for this playstyle. (around 30 to 40 shots).

I'm saying this all, because you should aim for a firepower over 30. (over 33 would be even better, for headshots ).

For example, a popular build is an AC20 and 3 ML's. Such as the champion BlackJack:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b#i=122&l=stock
(I would take off .5 ton armor and add a 2nd JJ, but that's preference)

Or you could take a look at mechspecs for some build-toughts:
http://www.mechspecs.com/
(there you'll find builds for all chassis)

As for the BJ-1X, with that variant you can play a bit with the engine rating. Going for more speed but less firepower, or applying the same principles above (but with much more cooling, since it's all energy) and only a moderate engine bump. So there you have more options.

Ok, enough for now
Just remember: this is all my playstyle and my opinions - I'm sure there are plenty of other builds that work too. But for me, I love my BJ's like this.

[Wildstreak]

Void Angel, on 30 May 2014 - 10:06 PM, said:

Well, to translate your Raven directly into a Medium, you're looking at a Blackjack. You're going to be slower, but you also get jump jets. If you were wanting to branch out more, the Shadowhawk is an excellent all-around choice - however, I can't say how it relates to the Griffin and Wolverine, since I haven't piloted those 'mechs.

Spheroid, on 31 May 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

The Shadow Hawk does not have terrible agility. Its torso twist rate is superior to the Griffin. Of the three variants I only like the 1N.

Nothing wrong with Blackjacks, always nice to see more in game.

As a Griffin pilot who mastered all three, here is my simple belief on them.

Griffin - all can LRM boat. The 1N and 1S have a weakness you have to know about and be ready for.
1N - Some say it can also snipe but I was not good at it. I also ran a couple of different mid to short range builds for sniping and brawling. Now I have 3ML & 3SRM6 for occasions. The whole right side is not the weakness, just the RA if you LRM Boat. If you know how to use a Mech with a Shield Side, then you should be OK. Lost a lot of 1N RAs.
1S - Ran this as an LRM boat and it did very well so I never tried anything else. Possible to do another build but the RA is even more of a loss since it has 4E compared to the 3E of a 1N. Oddly, I hardly lost the RA maybe due to LRM boating at mid ranges.
3M - The most survivable of the lot. Tried a couple of builds, 2LL & 4Streak now 2MPL, LRM10 & 3 Streak. Both very effective, first one nearly got me to 1000 damage and I never get that high.
If you can deal with 2 variants having the RA weakness, know how to shield it, Griffins can be fun. Always max out JJs at 7, amazing what you can do with 7 JJs.

[Sacred Solace]

Thanks guys! The feedback is great. Again, any input is welcome. I'm probably not the only one interested in this, so if you're an expert, speak your mind!

[juxstapo]

The Blackjack is my best and favoritest performer out of my current collection of 67 mechs. My "multiple-1000-damage-game" chassis if you will... and I can't add a single thing to Ballimbo's post, he pretty much covered it. I will say the Champion Blackjack wasn't something PGI pulled out of their {redacted}, but was based on the community developed Boomjack and is one of the best Champion purchases IMHO. The only difference in my Boomjack and the (C) is I mine mounts one less mLas in favor of another ton of ammo.

[Sacred Solace]

I've started using the BJ-1 and have the xl 235 engine, double heat sinks, and ferro-fibrous armor. I use two ppc's and two med lasers, and it's been going great for me so far

Edited by Sacred Solace, 03 June 2014 - 01:37 PM.