41 replies to this topic

[padebra]

I watched the Tournament series, Quarter Final. It was entertaining, but not as much as I expected

Assault doesn't incite teams to move forward (despite the name of the game mode). "Hide and wait for the kill". Push are great but a little comic : "All on the cap !"

Take Counter Strike : It's fun to watch. 1 team attacking, other one defending. 2 possible separated targets ! Roles switch as soon as the bomb is planted !

I can't see why we couldn't have a game mode with the same kind of strategic layer in MWO (Assault, conquest and skirmish are simple and symetric).

Spectator mode is very nice with the free view, but it's hard to understand the fight. (so, it's not so fun to watch). Please hide the name of dead pilots, display only a triangle above players. You can do elegant things ! Show the minimap to spectators ! It's so helpfull to understand what you're watching

Anyway, this is good times. Some matchs are great ! MWO is a enjoyable game, but in my opinion it cannot do "fun to watch" events (e-sport) without a good strategic game mode. (fun to watch = fun to play - balance can't help much)

[JediPanther]

From what I saw on it the whole thing looked pretty dull to play and to watch. Most of it was two teams arty/air striking much as possible and ppc/ac snipping with very little movement till the end when one of the teams absoultly had to get one kill to win. then it was one big cluster bleep to see who could get the most kills at the last 30 seconds.

Lights never attempted to scout and I don't think I saw any lrm fire at all. I doubt this game will evry be really viable as an e-sport with an mw:o convention or some big cash prize spilt between players on the winning team like that other company *hack*blizzard*hack* does. I bet the second place team just got something for the cockpit worth very little value. 3,000mc is about what $15. That's not much of a prize.

[Jaguar Prime]

The matches were okay. My biggest grip is the map sizes. For a competitive match, the maps should be at least 3 times bigger with unknown spawn points. Then lights will have to be deployed to find the enemy and real strategy can be used.

I wish some of the devs had competed in some of the old NBT competitive drops. Then they would know how shallow and limiting the maps are. I understand that large maps arent good for everyday pugging. But if they intend on having competitive matches, They should have MW4 size maps to give teams room to maneuver and allow the players to dictate the terms of engagement.

Most of the matches, the teams already knew where the enemy was within minutes of the start. And they knew what the the opposing team was trying to do after seeing their early movements. With maps this small, your options are very limited.

[Adiuvo]

River City Assault is by far one of the more stale game settings. I think later matches in the tourney really showed how exciting MWO can be from a spectator view.

Check out these two, from the semi finals and the finals.

http://youtu.be/FaVLypXOoqw

http://youtu.be/PxlKJFO0Eoc

[Helmer]

Yep.
Shoutcasting and watching "Esports" in general can be challenging depending on the game , spectator UI, and the shoutcasters themselves.

Take the EVO fighting game tournament in Vegas. Fundamentally they are easy to grasp as they are (usually) Left side guy trying to beatup right side guy, red vs blue, etc. It's easy to grasp the basics and a good shoutcaster , with energy , enthusiasm and information, can enhance a spectators experience.
Conversely making assumptions on the level of knowledge of the spectators, focusing on minutia , or inadequate spectating views can ruin the experience.

MWO is easy to grasp as two sides of big robots trying to destroy each other. However, the current spectate UI (A slight advancement of the CM tools) is still woefully inadequate. I was only able to watch one match and the casting seemed good considering what tools where available and what the teams where doing.

I'll agree. There's alot that needs implemented and refined before it's a more enjoyable, inviting experience.
Cheers.

Edited by Helmer, 30 May 2014 - 11:51 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Because counter-strike, even if it comes down to two rifles, still has the choice of two rifles, while MWO is entirely about The One True Way.

You also have to build up to the two rifles. You don't magically get them instantly. The maps aren't shaped like MOBA maps, if you fail to lock down the enemy team and they take your AWPs, you've given them 4750 dollars apiece for nothing, maybe you want the silencer on your M4, what if you use 3 guys per entrance to ambush their 6 guys, there's the option to mass scouts over the AWP lockdown...

It's also a lot more fun to watch. MWO will never be an e-sport, or even get a twitch following.

[Vassago Rain]

Let me also comment on the *16 out of 24* cash only robots used in the finals.

[Flaming oblivion]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

Let me also comment on the *16 out of 24* cash only robots used in the finals.

Kind of depressing but I would guess I don't actually know that hardpoint wise free to play mechs csn pull off what those mechs can, and lets face it they were being used because of how well they fit the meta, And that's also the reason e sports wont work watching the exact sqame game 3000 times , no ones got time for that.

[Vassago Rain]

Flaming oblivion, on 31 May 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

Kind of depressing but I would guess I don't actually know that hardpoint wise free to play mechs csn pull off what those mechs can, and lets face it they were being used because of how well they fit the meta, And that's also the reason e sports wont work watching the exact sqame game 3000 times , no ones got time for that.

They are superior to the c-bill variants.

Dragonslayer, for instance, can put all four guns on one side, basically using the other as a shield (sword and board), and the ember gets jumpjets, 4 machineguns, and 4 medium lasers.

[Redshift2k5]

The matches were fairly hard to watch, but they acknowledge that the spectator/broadcaster tools still need some work (such as dead pilot named clogging up the visibility)

An asymmetrical gamemode is in the works, one of the two maps in production is being built specifically for attack/defend.

[Wieland]

Flaming oblivion, on 31 May 2014 - 12:27 AM, said:

Kind of depressing but I would guess I don't actually know that hardpoint wise free to play mechs csn pull off what those mechs can, and lets face it they were being used because of how well they fit the meta, And that's also the reason e sports wont work watching the exact sqame game 3000 times , no ones got time for that.

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

They are superior to the c-bill variants.

Dragonslayer, for instance, can put all four guns on one side, basically using the other as a shield (sword and board), and the ember gets jumpjets, 4 machineguns, and 4 medium lasers.

A Tech1 Stock Tournament would probably be more interesting.

By 2016 they could probably have an automated Solaris Tournament System in.
1vs1(same weightclass), 4vs4(1/1/1/1), 12vs12(3/3/3/3), Stock Tech1, Stock Clan
Oh well, we are talking about PGI, dont we?

[Kh0rn]

You also forgot poptart Panic game mode where they act like those ducks at the fair going up and down and you have too shoot them. kinda sad that in order too be in the high elo you have too run meta. I'd rather stick too my Atlas then go for that.

[meteorol]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

It's also a lot more fun to watch. MWO will never be an e-sport, or even get a twitch following.

Sadly, this is true.
I'm loving Mechwarrior and have been doing so for many years, but it will simply never reach the amount of popularity "true" e-sport games like Counterstrike have. I'm not saying this with any negativity towards the game or the players, but it will always stay at a few "competitive" guys cirle-jerking in their leagues while the e-sports scene simply doesn't care.

From a spectators perspective, games like Counterstrike just offer so much more.
Seeing a perfectly executed take or retake of a spot with flawless smoke and flashbangs being used is just entertaining to watch. Guys winning a eco round or even stealing 3 or 4 weapons is great. Seeing a team being away one lost round from losing the match getting 6 wins in a row is so incredibly intense MWO will never catch up to it.

I watched a match of mousesports against some other clan (like a year ago, think it maybe was NiP). Mousesports had pretty much lost the match but then went on a 11:1 winning streak, making it a 1 round game. In this last round one guy from NiP (or whoever it was) with a deagle (no money) headshotted 3 guys in a shocking fashion, taking the game for NiP. This was so exciting to watch i almost threw my beer against the wall because i couldn't take it.

In comparison MWO just offers a sluggish 5 minute slugfest once a team engages and then it's over, which is not fun to watch. You don't see as much of this absolutely freakish highskilled aim you see while watching a CS match (because frankly speaking, targets are easier to hit because of the rather slow gameplay), but (thanks to map and gamemode issues) you also don't have enough tactical depth to make up for it.

5 minute TDM is simply not a gamemode that keeps spectators on their toes. Especially because it is very hard to actually see what is happening.

Edited by meteorol, 31 May 2014 - 01:05 AM.

[ArchSight]

Kh0rn, on 31 May 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

You also forgot poptart Panic game mode where they act like those ducks at the fair going up and down and you have too shoot them. kinda sad that in order too be in the high elo you have too run meta. I'd rather stick too my Atlas then go for that.

No you do not have to run meta to get into the high elo. You just have to be consistant enough at acheiving your goal and know how to make that goal achievable. MWO has more things that are possible than just jump sniping mechs but are 10x more difficult for a team with barely any practice. How many would want to practice the hard stuff that has to be done exactly right to work and maintain the same player's showing up at the right time? The meta of jump sniping is here because it's easy to coordinate with a team's behavoir of sitting back in random games.


I agree though seeing what is happening is what needs to be improved in the spectator mode. A more in depth look at the game if possible.

Edited by ArchSight, 31 May 2014 - 01:37 AM.

[Kassatsu]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

Let me also comment on the *16 out of 24* cash only robots used in the finals.

I counted 9, but I also counted that phoenix shadowhawk as a non-cash one (since it just has a fancy little shoulderplate that doesn't really do anything over the regular variant). Still hilarious to see that this game is blatantly P2W, I get that it's unintentional, but until the meta changes (or they overnerf the AC5 and PPC combo one way or another), the DS is just *THE* go-to mech for being the best you can possibly be in the game. And that's saying nothing about the Ember, though that one is far more debatable.

Edited by Kassatsu, 31 May 2014 - 01:46 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Kassatsu, on 31 May 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

I counted 9, but I also counted that phoenix shadowhawk as a non-cash one (since it just has a fancy little shoulderplate that doesn't really do anything over the regular variant). Still hilarious to see that this game is blatantly P2W, I get that it's unintentional, but until the meta changes (or they overnerf the AC5 and PPC combo one way or another), the DS is just *THE* go-to mech for being the best you can possibly be in the game. And that's saying nothing about the Ember, though that one is far more debatable.

Ember is strictly the best light. Jets, 4 machineguns, 4 med lasers, 35 tons!? Yes, please.

Steel jags brought 5 dragonslayers and 4 embers. LORDS showed a bit more restraint and fielded a mere 4 dragonslayers and 2 embers. I might just go through the semis and check how many of each the other teams brought.

[Khobai]

Im surprised no team brought 7 dragonslayers, 3 ember, 1 ecm spider, and 1 ecm commando

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 31 May 2014 - 02:17 AM, said:

Im surprised no team brought 7 dragonslayers, 3 ember, 1 ecm spider, and 1 ecm commando

Commando has no JJs. Sorry. Trade one less Ember for another ECM Spider.

[Adiuvo]

Vassago Rain, on 31 May 2014 - 12:29 AM, said:

They are superior to the c-bill variants.

Dragonslayer, for instance, can put all four guns on one side, basically using the other as a shield (sword and board), and the ember gets jumpjets, 4 machineguns, and 4 medium lasers.

No they aren't.

Crimson Straight, due to the lack of hills and the city fighting, would technically be better served by a 733C instead of a Dragon Slayer. The Ember isn't strictly better than the Jenner, they serve two different purposes and the team comps reflect this.

Dragon Slayers were taken primarily due to force of habit and the Embers were taken, at least on HoL's part, because Wispsy and I enjoy playing them more.

[Atkins0n]

Yep most the matches are boreing, is it because mwos boreing, or because herp derp it was single elim. Single elim skirm/assault are usually always going be ppl sitting back. Why not? Why fight in turrets? Why move from a clear advantagous spot in skirm? They will hopefully learn that single elim is not the way specially on skim or the current way assault is. Why do you think marik is conquest?