67 replies to this topic

[Asmudius Heng]

Flaming oblivion, on 01 June 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

Nah guys its all good, they won using the same tactic and weapons they always do , The only way they know how they need the advantage to win , That should tell you something about there skill level (or lack of hint HINT) that they need to use the best mechs with the best weapons repeatedly to win, Because if they faced the good pilots in anything but meta they'd get destroyed even if the good pilots were using trials, PGI are just using the tourney to cash grab with the sale from the players that want crutch.

Seriously??

While meta mechs are advantageous its sounds like you are just bitter about it and calling these guys low skill.

The top end players are good in any mech, they take the meta mechs because they want every advantage they can get because they want to win at all costs.

To say they are bad pilots is rediculous.

I think the top end meta is way to narrow as well and the lack of role warfare and the OP nature of jump jets is all bad but blame the game balance ... hating on competition players shows an extreme lack of knowledge.

No - i am not a top teir player in MWO, but I have been in previous iterations of MW and know what it takes to get there and its not simply abusing the mechanics believe me

[Sarlic]

I would be ashamed carrying that camo. Game is broken with balance, yet they held a tournament. Riiight...

Edited by Sarlic, 02 June 2014 - 12:02 AM.

[Jam the Bam]

Flaming oblivion, on 01 June 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

Nah guys its all good, they won using the same tactic and weapons they always do , The only way they know how they need the advantage to win , That should tell you something about there skill level (or lack of hint HINT) that they need to use the best mechs with the best weapons repeatedly to win, Because if they faced the good pilots in anything but meta they'd get destroyed even if the good pilots were using trials, PGI are just using the tourney to cash grab with the sale from the players that want crutch.

Oh dear god you are an absolute Moron. Seriously. They won against hundreds of other players ALSO using Meta builds. That means they were good. Good enough to beat all the other players also using the 'crutches' as you call them.

Don't kid yourself that its the simply the mech that's an I win button.

[Kyynele]

Flaming oblivion, on 01 June 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

Nah guys its all good, they won using the same tactic and weapons they always do , The only way they know how they need the advantage to win , That should tell you something about there skill level (or lack of hint HINT) that they need to use the best mechs with the best weapons repeatedly to win, Because if they faced the good pilots in anything but meta they'd get destroyed even if the good pilots were using trials, PGI are just using the tourney to cash grab with the sale from the players that want crutch.

If you ever get to the point where you get to actually play some matches against these guys, I'm afraid you're in for a painful realization of how detached from reality comments like these have been.

I don't pay too much attention to what other people do, but I've seen Eglar completely dominate and deal top damage in a match in a Locust, and I've spectated Proton kill off half of the enemy team in a Jenner after being in a 1 against 11 situation (eventually lost to base cap.) Actually seeing them in action, if anything, should tell you something about their skill level.

In a team tournament, when the best play against the best, they will use the absolute best mechs, because their opposition will do so too. If you don't think that's smart, there's something wrong with you.

Also, finally and unfortunately, truly bad players in meta mechs likely do get some lucky kills here and there, but if they aren't really great shots, they'll be pretty much wasting the potential of those mechs. If a bad player really wants a crutch, LRM boating for example is bound to deliver much easier "I'm the best" feel-good-moments with far less effort, especially in lower Elos.

[Marmon Rzohr]

To the posters above... don't feed the trolls

Sarlic, on 01 June 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

I would be ashamed carrying that camo. Game is broken with balance, yet they held a tournament. Riiight...

A tournament is absoultely the best way to fix balance problems. It makes all the OP stuff surface and gives PGI a view of how they are abused. (ok, everyone by this point knows why the meta is stale, but still the principle is sound) Competitive play is always the best frame of reference for game balance.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Asmudius Heng, on 01 June 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

Seriously??

While meta mechs are advantageous its sounds like you are just bitter about it and calling these guys low skill.

The top end players are good in any mech, they take the meta mechs because they want every advantage they can get because they want to win at all costs.

To say they are bad pilots is rediculous.

I think the top end meta is way to narrow as well and the lack of role warfare and the OP nature of jump jets is all bad but blame the game balance ... hating on competition players shows an extreme lack of knowledge.

No - i am not a top teir player in MWO, but I have been in previous iterations of MW and know what it takes to get there and its not simply abusing the mechanics believe me

Yeah I won't even go so far as to consider meta-abusing tryhards as "no skill" players, because just a few mechs using the meta isn't bad, it takes a coordinated team of skilled players all using the meta to truly abuse it which is why I tell them to get back into 12s where they belong. That's why I've focused on their attitude and the mentality it takes to be willing to play in such a destructive manner when the game is not your typical FPS. It's hilarious when those types try to defend their play style tho. Just makes them look worse and worse the harder they try when it comes to the forums.

Edited by lockwoodx, 02 June 2014 - 01:22 AM.

[xMintaka]

Armored Yokai, on 01 June 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

Meh such typical pilots, imho they shouldn't have gotten the exclusive skin and i think the tournament should have been using purely stock.

Kassatsu, on 01 June 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

Stock tournament or no jump jet/SHS-only tournament pls.

There's a place for that if you want to set it up.

It doesn't make sense that PGI would intentionally limit what mechs you can use in a top flight tournament.

Such a thing would be like forcing all the World Cup (football) players to play with their legs tied together because they are better than you. Even though you aren't playing.

Running a full VTR-DS poptart lance in pugs is, imo, pretty lame and cheap. Relying on meta to stomp people without communication and with varied builds doesn't really say much about your awesome skill. Which is probably one of the reasons whenever I see Eglar ingame he's using a Shadowhawk instead of a CTF or VTR.

The fact remains that the top level players (HoL, CSJ, SJR, etc) are more skilled than the vast majority of us. They use meta builds in competition because it provides a further advantage on top of their skill as well as knowing that their opponents will, in all likelihood, be using those builds as well. So they practice with those builds in PUG matches as well.

Meta builds are categorically NOT an "I win" button. Do they make it easier? Yes. But it takes skill to use them. Put me in a Dragon Slayer and I'll do average at best, and I know enough people who would be flat out worse in a meta mech than their preferred playstyle.

Edited by Lunatech, 02 June 2014 - 01:39 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Biaxialrain, on 01 June 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

I thought this was about role warfare.

I thought this was about huge, lumbering, monstrous mechanical tanks.

I thought this was about strategy, tactics, positioning and teamwork.

The few tournaments I've watched via YouTube didn't contain any of this, in fact, just the opposite. I see most everyone using the same 2-3 mechs with the same loadouts.

What's worse is some are "Conquest" which immediately turn into "Skirmish", what's the point of "Conquest" again?

I've already been in matches where people try to emulate the jump sniping and outright, full on brawling that is shown. Most lose, and lose hard.

Run, jump, shoot, repeat, if you're faster on the keyboard or have faster reaction times you win, not much thought or skill involved.

Boring and available elsewhere.

MW:O is supposed to be better than that, right, the "thinking man's shooter" as I recall.

Which is kinda why I dont wanna join a clan in this game. It will pretty much be...L2 poptart or else die and lose forever, no fun, no nothing.

[Asmudius Heng]

lockwoodx, on 02 June 2014 - 01:21 AM, said:

Yeah I won't even go so far as to consider meta-abusing tryhards as "no skill" players, because just a few mechs using the meta isn't bad, it takes a coordinated team of skilled players all using the meta to truly abuse it which is why I tell them to get back into 12s where they belong. That's why I've focused on their attitude and the mentality it takes to be willing to play in such a destructive manner when the game is not your typical FPS. It's hilarious when those types try to defend their play style tho. Just makes them look worse and worse the harder they try when it comes to the forums.

People will play what they want i will blame the game not the player on this. Though when just pugging and you already own all the toys I am not sure why some persist on using the same meta-mechs though.

In MW4 i knew exactly what mech i could take to do as much damage as possible (Hello ye olde 7ERLL Novacat) but when pubbing i only took that for some practice and prefered to run challenging builds (lol hellspawn).

However its each to thier own - in a system like MWO with a matchmaker it is even more dependant on the developers to pay close attention to game balance and thats where the blame should lay.

Hopefully some of the JJ tuning soming soon and the mythical SRM fix might broaden the meta but we will see ...

[Turist0AT]

Biaxialrain, on 01 June 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Run, jump, shoot, repeat, if you're faster on the keyboard or have faster reaction times you win, not much thought or skill involved.

Thats hawken in a nutshell. And its a more complete and well rounded product. They even have coop vs bots!

[Lykaon]

Dymlos2003, on 31 May 2014 - 12:03 PM, said:

GASP! They used mechs!

But not any mech the specificly meta approved mechs.

You didn't see Awesomes or Dragons or trebuchets or locusts

You did see Victors,Cataphracts,Shadowhawks and Firestarters or ECM Spiders.

Don't even try to convince anyone that there isn't a big fat elephant in the room and it's the same tired old meta that has this game hemeraging players.

[SgtMagor]

kind of a no brainer, tough mechs that can carry good amount of firepower, always thought of the Phract 3D as the "natural born killa" its stock weapon loadout is on par with some assaults.

Edited by SgtMagor, 02 June 2014 - 03:20 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

Did you notice that all the players in the Tour de France used a racing bike? I so hate the meta in bicycle racing.

Monty Python said:

Those of you who wish to play it the hard way, stand upside down with your head in a bucket of piranha fish.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 02 June 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Great Unwashed, on 02 June 2014 - 03:26 AM, said:

Did you notice that all the players in the Tour de France used a racing bike? I so hate the meta in bicycle racing.

Have the winners and top 10 had anything else in common? Bike manufacturer? Tire Manufacturer? Brand of clothier? Helmet maker?

[The Great Unwashed]

Vitamins?

[Joseph Mallan]

The Great Unwashed, on 02 June 2014 - 03:46 AM, said:

Vitamins?

Number of testicles?

[The Great Unwashed]

I cannot attesticle to that

(and rather wouldn't either)

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 02 June 2014 - 03:52 AM.

[Hawk819]

Meta Meta Meta for everybody

Edited by Hawk819, 02 June 2014 - 03:56 AM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Lykaon, on 02 June 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

But not any mech the specificly meta approved mechs.

You didn't see Awesomes or Dragons or trebuchets or locusts

You did see Victors,Cataphracts,Shadowhawks and Firestarters or ECM Spiders.

Don't even try to convince anyone that there isn't a big fat elephant in the room and it's the same tired old meta that has this game hemeraging players.

OMG... how do you get up in the morning with all the complaining...

The game is fun and you can play a ton of different loadouts at the highest level.
In organized 12v12 there is a different story, ofc there is only going to be a small number of select mechs...
In WoT tournaments teams only use a handful of tanks as well. Even LoL - in tournament play you'll probably see something like 30 out of ~120 champions (usually much less then that).

That's what organized play is about. Squeezing the max out of every mech. It has very little influence on how the game is played for the average player, so why all the rage.

Finally a disclaimer: yes some things have not changed in way, waaaay too long. Namely HSR problems and Jump Jets. But other stuff like PPC boats etc have gone away much to the delight of many. So will this eventually. Even next patch adjustments are coming.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 02 June 2014 - 04:00 AM.

[Kh0rn]

I for one refuse too use Meta and any meta mechs. I pilot the AS7-D atlas. I equip various different builds that I come up with and I still do well. I notice one thing the JJ have a major impact on a mechs performance. Remove them from the dragon slayer an watch its effectiveness go down the toilet. I still run up against the meta in my Atlas its the level I reached and now and then I bring them down. I decided too give it a go the whole poptart sense. With out any unlocks with no elites and using a QKD-4H with 2 PPC and JJ I was able too deal 800 damage Its pretty clear poptart is the easiest way too play the game if I can do that in a QKD then that pretty much sums it up. The JJ alone can use too exploit HSR by "Bunny hopping" First thing I did was remove this mech all together and went back too slogging it out in my AS7-D. I have seen what happens when the poptarts use the so called " non meta" mechs..they fall the hell apart some can adapt but most just fall on there face.