67 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Finster, on 31 May 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

What, no Locusts?

my locusts are mastered all five of them, bites the meta in the ass

[Joseph Mallan]

Hawk819, on 02 June 2014 - 03:55 AM, said:

Meta Meta Meta for everybody

Your recommendation has limited a peel!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 02 June 2014 - 04:40 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 June 2014 - 03:34 AM, said:

Have the winners and top 10 had anything else in common? Bike manufacturer? Tire Manufacturer? Brand of clothier? Helmet maker?

how about the alleged performance enhancing drugs ?

[The Great Unwashed]

I decided to go full meta now that the Dragon Slayer was for sale; I got 7 kills in a VTR-9S with half the basic skills unlocked... some luck was involved but it does play quite effectively (plain silly actually). The poptarting remains annoying though.

Perhaps the JJ should have a lot of heat generated.... the heavier the mech, the higher the heat scale too, so that lights remain relatively unaffected. Could take care of the PPC poptarting?

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 02 June 2014 - 06:44 AM.

[Sarlic]

Kyynele, on 02 June 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:

If you ever get to the point where you get to actually play some matches against these guys, I'm afraid you're in for a painful realization of how detached from reality comments like these have been.

I don't pay too much attention to what other people do, but I've seen Eglar completely dominate and deal top damage in a match in a Locust, and I've spectated Proton kill off half of the enemy team in a Jenner after being in a 1 against 11 situation (eventually lost to base cap.) Actually seeing them in action, if anything, should tell you something about their skill level.

In a team tournament, when the best play against the best, they will use the absolute best mechs, because their opposition will do so too. If you don't think that's smart, there's something wrong with you.

Also, finally and unfortunately, truly bad players in meta mechs likely do get some lucky kills here and there, but if they aren't really great shots, they'll be pretty much wasting the potential of those mechs. If a bad player really wants a crutch, LRM boating for example is bound to deliver much easier "I'm the best" feel-good-moments with far less effort, especially in lower Elos.

I have seen these guys using JJ, using PPC and more. Nothing new. They're all the same. Not that i want to offend them but i do not care. Matched against them; pure metafest. Team got stomped. Boring! Next please.

Edited by Sarlic, 02 June 2014 - 04:18 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Armored Yokai, on 01 June 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

Meh such typical pilots, imho they shouldn't have gotten the exclusive skin and i think the tournament should have been using purely stock.

Do you really want to wear a skin of shame..

Well well..umm its like this guv, I started out doin the light stuff Grass, splat cats, ya no, but.. bu, I couldn't help it I got addicted an jus do Poptarts

Edited by Cathy, 02 June 2014 - 04:19 AM.

[Kh0rn]

the JJ alone increase the combat effectiveness through the roof simply because there is no draw back too them. There is no need too check your landing, save juice so your legs don't go back. No cone of fire, no shake through the air in a very un aero dynamic machine and they don't even "jump" its a friggin hover jet. I did tests with it A jenner with and with out JJ and the difference is staggering.

[Outlaw]

Well if they implimented JJs like they were in MWLL they would only have two uses, quicker navigation of rough terrain, and getting into/out of trouble. Jump Jets in that game were like strapping an Atlas rocket to your back, it shook like hell, and your heat went through the roof, made for some interesting combat though.

[C E Dwyer]

Kyynele, on 02 June 2014 - 12:59 AM, said:

If you ever get to the point where you get to actually play some matches against these guys, I'm afraid you're in for a painful realization of how detached from reality comments like these have been.

I don't pay too much attention to what other people do, but I've seen Eglar completely dominate and deal top damage in a match in a Locust, and I've spectated Proton kill off half of the enemy team in a Jenner after being in a 1 against 11 situation (eventually lost to base cap.) Actually seeing them in action, if anything, should tell you something about their skill level.

In a team tournament, when the best play against the best, they will use the absolute best mechs, because their opposition will do so too. If you don't think that's smart, there's something wrong with you.

Also, finally and unfortunately, truly bad players in meta mechs likely do get some lucky kills here and there, but if they aren't really great shots, they'll be pretty much wasting the potential of those mechs. If a bad player really wants a crutch, LRM boating for example is bound to deliver much easier "I'm the best" feel-good-moments with far less effort, especially in lower Elos.

Shrugs, I've no issues with peoples skill levels, what I have issues with, are people abusing the way the elo works to steam roll the average players, seeing a lance of meta DS's steam rolling a bunch of people trying to work out which way is up is a pretty sad reflection on these 'Pro' players.

[Kh0rn]

I second the motion on the MWLL jumpjets You did not see a lot of poptarting in that game but they were very useful from gettin from point A too point B.

[Prezimonto]

Lunatech, on 02 June 2014 - 01:38 AM, said:

It doesn't make sense that PGI would intentionally limit what mechs you can use in a top flight tournament.

Such a thing would be like forcing all the World Cup (football) players to play with their legs tied together because they are better than you. Even though you aren't playing.

Running a full VTR-DS poptart lance in pugs is, imo, pretty lame and cheap. Relying on meta to stomp people without communication and with varied builds doesn't really say much about your awesome skill. Which is probably one of the reasons whenever I see Eglar ingame he's using a Shadowhawk instead of a CTF or VTR.

I don't think the issue is that the players are good or bad at all. Props to the guys who won the tournament. The issue is that an extremely narrow range of mech builds, and consequently and extremely narrow range of mechs are viable at that level. It tells us that game balance isn't as good as it should be.

Take a look at League of Legends from several years ago, even when they had around the same number of champions as we have mechs, different teams could develop strategies that employed a wide array of tactics to win a game.

MWO is jump snipers mixed with a few ECM mechs. Spread apart far enough that consumables can't hit more than one or two mechs, remain visible to at least 3 or 4 mechs for overlapping field of fire, poptart for the win. I'm not saying these guys aren't exceptionally good pilots, I'm irritated that it's such an obviously better way to play. I've been angry about this for over a year. I don't see it changing, and it has contributed to general boredom with the game. All it takes in a pug match is trying to face down 2 or three people with this strategy and unless you brought the same mechs and builds you rarely have a fighting chance of winning. Granted there are otherways to play that CAN work in pugs but this is THE best, highest reward for lowest risk style of play. The combination of Jump Jets to get to a firing position mid-air, and receive nearly instant cover after firing(high damage, low risk), and pin point weapons make this is easiest way to destroy an enemy with the lowest chance of being destroyed.

Also, asking players to play stock, or era mechs would be a much greater test of teamwork and individual pilot skill as the mechs themselves aren't as optimized. If you actually believe that the style tournament just finished DOESN'T limit the type of mechs and mech builds on the field, in practice, the results say you're wrong.

My general thoughts are that JJ should apply a Cone of Fire to all weapons throughout the entire flight when on and when off, it should take your mechs gyro at least a half second to stabilize, if not a full second. During that time the Cone of Fire should still be applied. Additionally, mechs should take serious leg damage for uncontrolled landings (in excess of a minimum velocity at landing) that damage should scale with the rate of descent and the mech's mass. Together, if you want to fire mid air you need to either accept damage yourself (pushed your mech up high enough to get stable fire while out of cover, meaning uncontrolled landing) or accept a cone of fire to your shots (pushed up more slowly, fire, controlled landing with remaining jump jet power). I also wouldn't mind if jump jets generated more heat the larger the jump jet.

Edited by Prezimonto, 02 June 2014 - 04:54 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

On the other hand, I don't see these poptarting teams very often (I see 'famous' people so I guess I'm in high ELO). When I do, our team gets absolutely splattered against the scenery, even when you manage to hit the poptarters with good 30D shots: the N-squared law is against you.

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 02 June 2014 - 06:02 AM.

[RussianWolf]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 June 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

Which is kinda why I dont wanna join a clan in this game. It will pretty much be...L2 poptart or else die and lose forever, no fun, no nothing.

feel free to send me a friend request. We in PugLife don't act like that. Half the mechs I'm running right now are stock configs..... in the Public queue. Just bought my Stalker 4N last night and did very well in its first outing.

[Biaxialrain]

Jump jet heat!!! Now, that's an idea.

They could shut down in midair and collapse upon landing. Still alive but unable to get upright.

Brilliant.

Seriously though, jump jet heat is a great idea.

[wanderer]

Quote

Which is kinda why I dont wanna join a clan in this game. It will pretty much be...L2 poptart or else die and lose forever, no fun, no nothing.

Plenty of casual groups out there even now that won't force-feed you meta.

Just don't expect to win against competitive groups if you don't play competitive- sorta like taking a stock Ford Focus to the Indy 500. You can drive on the track, but you're gonna get lapped.

[TygerLily]

The final two should have met up before hand and agreed to use Locusts, Awesomes and Dragons only.

[Ursh]

Grats to the winners...

To those who abhor that playstyle, there are plenty of more casual groups out there that won't force you to use meta, but rather exist so that guys and gals can get together and have some fun shooting mechs.

To those who will inevitably boast about how skilled they are at killing jump-snipers...you're actually only good at killing poptarts pretending to be jumpsnipers. It's played out over and over again for the past year. When the best players use the best mechs and start jump-sniping, there is no counter to it other than to be better at it than them.

[Biaxialrain]

With the current meta the more MW:O gets pushed towards the Hawken playstyle the fewer players it will have.

Twitch, vanilla weapons, no skill, flying mechs, no tactics, no teamplay, no strategy, the player with the faster reaction time wins, no fun for the majority of players.

In that situation you don't have to put any thought into anything, run to your opponent and then run around your opponent.

Sound like fun? Players will get tired of having their a$$es handed to them by metaplayers and then eventually quit playing altogether, especially if you really like a mech class that has been obsoleted by the current meta.

Like I said, run, jump, shoot, repeat.

So MW:O is all about being better at jump sniping now?

Wow, I've had it so wrong.

[xeromynd]

Well gosh golly gee darnit I was expecting Quickdraws, Awesomes, and Trebuchets.























But seriously. I've tried fighting the meta with MORE meta, putting some goold ol' PPCs and AC5's on my JM6, and the sad thing is that it works well, but at the same time, I have NO fun playing. It's really disappointing when you're a generally not-terrible pilot, and can't even win games anymore with the builds you've loved so much, and have so much playtime logged.

Re: PPC/AC Meta & Poptarts:
To quote Game of Thrones
"I imagine it must be so exciting to squeeze your finger here and watch something die over there"

Edited by xeromynd, 02 June 2014 - 06:57 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Don't hate on these guys they are great in these mechs. You can't blame them for using what wins in a tournament. Some of them have been working together for a long time and just no what to do along with having impeccable aim. If your going to get mad, get mad at PGI. They are the ones that brought in pinpoint damage, without adding simple and realistic weapon functions like recoil and sever deadfall leg damage.

Our team didn't join the tournament purely for the Meta reason. We don't like it, we don't play it and we know the top 2 teams do. Yet we don't fault them for it one bit.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 02 June 2014 - 07:02 AM.