40 replies to this topic

[Varik Ronain]

Jacobei, on 01 June 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Jump sniping bad / LRMS good?

But what if you did both? Dual ppc, tag and dual lrm 15 or 10s with jumpjets and a speed of 86kph? Take the two most hated things and roll them into one lol

[InsiderGamer]

I am for fall damage for legs based on 'Mech weight class.

That said, I also want to hear the argument against simply adding crosshair shake regardless of whether a Jump Jetting 'Mech is on the way up or down (as was the case for about ~1 week (?) in MWO before this was changed).

If you're close to an enemy, you can still JJ + fire, but far away, you will not be able to without your aim suffering. As mentioned before, you could modify the amount of crosshair shake based on 'Mech weight class as well (more for heftier 'Mechs).

Why not implement either (or both) approaches?

Edited by InsiderGamer, 01 June 2014 - 04:47 PM.

[Vercinaigh]

InsiderGamer, on 01 June 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

I am for fall damage for legs based on 'Mech weight class.

That said, I also want to hear the argument against simply adding crosshair shake regardless of whether a Jump Jetting 'Mech is on the way up or down (as was the case for about ~1 week (?) in MWO before this was changed).

If you're close to an enemy, you can still JJ + fire, but far away, you will not be able to without your aim suffering. As mentioned before, you could modify the amount of crosshair shake based on 'Mech weight class as well (more for heftier 'Mechs).

Why not implement either (or both) approaches?

Because it removes a -skill- from the game, like it or not it is a skill, it is something you learn to do. And against others that know it it is much harder to pull off than it looks, just like brawling isn't as simple as it looks. There -are-other ways to fix the balance issues, and most of it has to do with the maps themselves.

[Mycrus]

Jacobei, on 01 June 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Jump sniping bad / LRMS good?

2 legs bad

4 legs better

[Jacobei]

and mw5

[Ursh]

Khobai, on 01 June 2014 - 11:34 AM, said:

not really. highlanders have reinforced legs. theyre designed to jump on the heads of other mechs.

That's lore from the 2750 TRO, but nothing about the mech really reflects that, such as reduced leg critical space or increased internal structure. Unless you really want to add in all the other design faults and quirks listed in the 2750, 3025, and 3050 TROs. Like mechs that were supposed to have jamming problems with ammo feeds, faulty ppc housings that caused overheating, temperamental autocannons, etc.

Plus, since so many people put ES on their Highlanders anyways, maybe there wasn't room for the additional supports after they ripped the mech apart and then refilled every last critical spot with non-factory loadouts.

[Sarlic]

I want both. A fuel system and faling damage. Makes people think to jump or not. And shake effect.

Edited by Sarlic, 02 June 2014 - 12:44 AM.

[Blue Boutique]

Regarding the Highlander reinforced legs, there's a difference between slamming into mech above from a few meters above to hitting the ground from the apex of the lift.

Edited by Blue Boutique, 02 June 2014 - 01:33 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 01 June 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

I don't recall that ever happening in MW3 or MW4. Which titles featured that?


Also, a poptart doesn't necessarily have to go very high to get his shot off. The really good ones only pop just high enough to shoot, and then fall out of sight before anyone knows what hit them. Having the falling damage code reworked is still something that really should happen (right now, Lolcusts and Commandos are the main/only mechs penalized by it), but unless they crank it up to the sky I don't expect a total revolution to result from it.

tonnage/10*elevation. That is the formula for TT falling damage... If the DEVs are interested in how it works in the Universe.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Well, seeing as they have no fall damage now, yeah, adding fall damage could be a good thing to start with.

I went on tourmaline and found the highest part I could, jumped off it and just free fell, did it like 5 times and only barely had my legs turning yellow. This in a Victor......85t free falling a good 100m+ on its legs? I doubt it would end well for it.....

[Rogue Jedi]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 01 June 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

I cant wait tell my light can fall off a 2 foot rock and not take leg damage!

A while ago I did an experement using a 12JJ Spider on testing grounds I went to the top of the hill with the tunnel underneath on Crimson Strait

I moved back to give myself a run up then set speed to maximum and just before the hill starts to drop I triggered the JumpJets, I kept the Jets on until they ran out of fuel, I landed on flat ground between 2 buildings, the legs took little damage, I would guess no more than 15% leg armor, for the sake if imersion I would expect the mech to suffer severe damage to (if not loss of) both legs from this type of fall.

you would be hard pressed to fall much further than that in MWO yet the Spider seemed to take the same ammount of damage for a 300+ meter fall landing at near terminal velocity as it would for a 10 meter fall, based on this it seems you loose a fixed number of HP (I would guess between 5 and 10 points) from leg armor (or internals when no armor remains) regardless of the distance or speed you fall.

also why do you loose leg armor from a fall? fall damage should be applied direct to internal structure as that is what would take the stresses of falling not leg armor.

I hope PGI will eventuarly add scailing fall damage based on fall distance, landing speed and weight of mech (possibly with a quirk to reduce damage to the Highlander due to reinforced legs).

[Lykaon]

Reticule shake to reduce the accuracy of high volume FLD alpha strikes fired from poptarts or as I like to call them

Highlanders,Victors,Cataphract 2Ds

Seriously we have a mechanic that effects all mechs with jets to handle a few that can fit a FLD weapon payload with enough damage output to be dangerous and enough heatsinks to fire it ?

Are we still embracing the failures of the PGI dev team?

Stop discussing how to build a better bandaid and look to the root cause.

Front loading damage needs to go.

[Chemie]

JJ are not broken. If you nerf them, they just go int he heap with flamers and MG and almost every weapon except PPC/AC5

Fix high pin point alphas... not ghost heat, JJ, legging assaults, etc

[Vandul]

InsiderGamer, on 01 June 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

I am for fall damage for legs based on 'Mech weight class.

That said, I also want to hear the argument against simply adding crosshair shake regardless of whether a Jump Jetting 'Mech is on the way up or down (as was the case for about ~1 week (?) in MWO before this was changed).

If you're close to an enemy, you can still JJ + fire, but far away, you will not be able to without your aim suffering. As mentioned before, you could modify the amount of crosshair shake based on 'Mech weight class as well (more for heftier 'Mechs).

Why not implement either (or both) approaches?

Rather than screen shake on the way back down, why not some image distortion (heat shimmers) as your mech falls through its own heat/plasma wake? Easy Peasy.

[InsiderGamer]

Vandul, on 02 June 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

Rather than screen shake on the way back down, why not some image distortion (heat shimmers) as your mech falls through its own heat/plasma wake? Easy Peasy.

My thought is maybe depending on implementation, players might be able to adapt and learn to 'see through' the heat wake, or tweak graphic settings to some degree to mitigate the effect.

With crosshair shake, no real amount of adaptation or tweaking graphic settings can get around it (as it is when Jump Jetting upwards). It's a little more solid, and again, leverages what's already in the game (so less dev work needs to be done).

Heat wake may also affect performance to some degree. Because players have recently applauded the recent options to remove things like cockpit glass to save even just a few FPS, adding another effect like the heat wave may prove less popular.

Hope that makes sense. I like the idea, I just think crosshair shake would be easier to do for those reasons above.

[Trauglodyte]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 June 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

tonnage/10*elevation. That is the formula for TT falling damage... If the DEVs are interested in how it works in the Universe.

<snicker> Yep, they're interested alright

[InsiderGamer]

Vercinaigh, on 01 June 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Because it removes a -skill- from the game, like it or not it is a skill, it is something you learn to do. And against others that know it it is much harder to pull off than it looks, just like brawling isn't as simple as it looks. There -are-other ways to fix the balance issues, and most of it has to do with the maps themselves.

And I absolutely hear you! Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of the JJ mechanic, and in fact, I'd like to see it become even more of a thing in terms of fleshing it out.

What I would like to see is due to the crosshair shake (less so on smaller weight classes), Jump Jet+Shoot is relegated to closer encounters. Therefore, there is an increased risk mechanic behind this. You should still be able to Jump+Shoot+fall back into cover and hit largely what you're aiming at, but only at closer ranges.

Further away, and you will more than likely miss, which I can't see this as *not* being a fair tradeoff for the ability to fall back into cover quickly, and increase mobility.

Also, this would help in reducing the increased effectiveness of Air Strikes and Artillery Strikes in the hands of a meta 'Jump Sniper'. If you're a smaller 'Mech, you'll still be able to make use of JJ's to Jump+Plant an Art Strike/Air Strike relatively accurately. (This is good! Lighter 'Mechs definitely need more of a 'role' in the game.)

Cheers.

Edited by InsiderGamer, 02 June 2014 - 06:59 AM.

[Reno Blade]

I'd say, logically, the damage should go to the internal structure of the leg or hip, but that way you don't need to waste tonnage for leg armor (because its going to internals).


I'm not sure if a typical heav/assault poptart would take enough damage.
What is it, maximum of 1 mech's height worth of jump-height? Like one level on Canyon network.

If that will hurt non-JJ mechs, nobody want's to fall down these levels anymore.

I would wish to have a 50t mech take at least 50% less damage than a 80t mech with the same falling height and a 35t light mech around 50% less than a 70t heavy mech.

[Tlords]

The beautiful thing about falling is also the painful part. Physics dictates that it is not the fall the hurts, but the sudden stop backed by acceleration. And falling is acceleration based.

Damage squares on impact, vice linear scaling. That means a mech that falls 20 meters when compared vs. a mech falling 10 meters takes four times the damage. If it falls 40 meters vice 10 meters it takes 16 times the damage. In MWO terms a mech that takes 5 damage for falling 10 meters should take 90 damage for falling 40 meters (ouch!)

Edited by Tlords, 02 June 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Falling damage will have next to nothing, if in fact, any effect at all on pop tarting.

I don't know where people are getting these crazy idea's about PGi making the game more brawler friendly just because the clans arrive, not a small number of us have been crying out for a more brawler based game from before heat scale, and every nerf to mechs has hurt brawling far more than the meta's they were trying to change.

They've said all along they don't want Clan mechs making Is ones obselette overnight, so why would they make brawling easier for clans and leave no counter for Is mechs.


All I'm seeing is a lot of wishful thinking.


Only big nerf that I've seen to I.S. mechs comes with the instant missile lock breaking module being handed out to pre orders.

This yet again show how poor PGI's thinking is when it come to developement and balance.

It will have pretty much zero effect on top tier players as hardly any bother with LRms but it will cripple the lower pools of players the ones PGI hope will pay money into this franchise, as so many can't hit for blazes without the big prop of LRM boats.

I think the clans will have a negative effect on population not increase it, seems that PGi haven't learned from sisemic how utterly stupid it is to have OP modules introduced.

Just glad my lrm based mechs are 1/1 mastered, and I've not many more to finish fully mastering, so if this gut feeling of utter fiasco turns into fact when the clans roll out i can walk away having achieved my goal of mastering every IS mech in game