56 replies to this topic

[Reno Blade]

Good post Innocent.
Details like these are what I want in this thread

[Agent of Change]

Reno Blade, on 02 June 2014 - 06:15 AM, said:

Wrong thread then.

This thread is about:
What kind of benefits, penalties for factions and what kind of rewards for invading and conquering planets (doing CW battles. wins and losses).

My second part actually answered that. The point is I don't expect there to be ANY meaningful benefits, penalties for factions,or ANY kind of significant rewards for invading and conquering planets. What I do expect is something slapped together:

-some generic a laughable "bonuses" with no real distinction made between the factions or their canon.
- I expect there to be real money features required to participate fully in CW.
- I expect that "invasions" will just be playing on the same maps, with the same game modes we've already been playing for the last two years.

[Innocent]

Trauglodyte, on 02 June 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

My expectations for the game consist of the continuing and extremely slow balancing changes to weapons that don't actually balance them followed by the same maps over and over again with the same boring game modes and lack luster end game rewards. So, more of the same. Yay us!

I will not hold my breath for anything more than what we have now with a nebulous map with percents on it.

For maps what i would like to see something different. I want big maps that are divided into grids. Like a large city map that is broken into a 3x3 map grid. To take control you would have to win each section until you own the whole map or a map with a spaceport in the middle. Take the surrounding areas then the spaceport is the final zone, this would allow an attack defend game mode. The current owner gets to defend and the attacker must either take the objective or destroy all opponents. I would think this could speed up map development, each map, since they are connected, would have the same type of terrain and buildings.

Random battles would be on the current random maps we have.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Trauglodyte, on 02 June 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

My expectations for the game consist of the continuing and extremely slow balancing changes to weapons that don't actually balance them followed by the same maps over and over again with the same boring game modes and lack luster end game rewards. So, more of the same. Yay us!

Pretty much.

[Kyynele]

My personal guess would be that, especially now as the clans are rolling out, there aren't enough players of all skill levels to have meaningful faction warfare, and the CW will be dumbed down to simply Clans vs IS, for which we might have the player count.

Note: this is not what I'm hoping for.

[Reno Blade]

OK now that you expect nothing meaningfull, is there something you WANT it to be instead?

Again:
what do you want the differences between factions to be?
what do you want to gain when your faction conquers a bunch of planets?

If you can't answere these questions, please don't bother posting your "I expect nothing usefull" post.
Thanks

[Agent of Change]

Reno Blade, on 02 June 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

OK now that you expect nothing meaningfull, is there something you WANT it to be instead?

Again:
what do you want the differences between factions to be?
what do you want to gain when your faction conquers a bunch of planets?

If you can't answere these questions, please don't bother posting your "I expect nothing usefull" post.
Thanks

Make up your mind please.

I posted what I wanted, you told me to post what I expected. I posted what I expected, you tell me that I shouldn't bother. If you don't want to hear what people have to say don't ask, and if you want an echo chamber then just say so.

The fact of the matter is that what I want isn't going to happen so i'm not going to waste a lot of time putting it down in specifics.

[NextGame]

Fishhawk, on 02 June 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

1.) I like the idea of the return of R&R. However, they would need to increase the cBill payout. So that's not going to happen. I don't play a lot, but I have about 20 mechs. I would say that's a low amount compared to most current players. So, if I can't afford R&R on one mech, I have 19 others to choose from. If I go through 20 mechs and can't repair a single one. i can sell one to pay to repair them. I'd say R&R isn't feasible for new players, but they could figure out when R&R becomes important. Maybe for just the losing side of the battle?

2.) I want to play for something. It's fine and good to have my epeen stroked after a good win/good performance, but I want to play for a REASON. Planets, Mechs, Parts, etc... Give me something to play for. Right now I play about 10 games a month. Maybe. Because I have no real reason to play. Give me a reason.

3.) Make factions/clans unique and important. We have a lot of Lone Wolves out there. Make a faction or clan something people want to participate in. Mech discounts, unique modules, unique weapons, cheaper weapons, etc..

I was just chucking out some random thoughts for discussion with my earlier post, but consider this:

You could have an R&R system that might allow very cheap or even free repairs for using mechs aligned with the faction you are currently playing for, and make it much higher risk, say, when using a clan mech in an inner sphere faction where even winning might cost more in repairs than you make from the round if you "died".

PGI could also do something like give everyone a free "training" mech for each weight class, like say, the chameleon for mediums, that could be free, or very nominal, repairs in every faction that players could fall back on but might also mean that you earn money more slowly when using those mechs. Or of course this function could be served by the monthly (or whatever rotation they are currently on) trial mechs.

edit: spelling

Edited by NextGame, 02 June 2014 - 10:31 AM.

[Reno Blade]

Agent of Change, on 02 June 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

Make up your mind please.

I posted what I wanted, you told me to post what I expected. I posted what I expected, you tell me that I shouldn't bother. If you don't want to hear what people have to say don't ask, and if you want an echo chamber then just say so.

The fact of the matter is that what I want isn't going to happen so i'm not going to waste a lot of time putting it down in specifics.

I posted it over and over again, this topic is about
the differences between factions
and the conquest of planets in CW.
If you want to post about what you expect or what you want in this context, please do so.

It's not about what you expect for the whole CW, the whole game, or what you want it to be, but just this context.
Sorry to repeat myself, but I want this thread to stay focused on this and don't derail in 3 of 4 posts and you are not the only one.

[Davers]

If CW has faction specific mechs, does everyone have an ECM mech?

[Odins Fist]

Lowered expectations result in fewer disappointments...

I think that is the key to enjoying MWO...

[NextGame]

Davers, on 02 June 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

If CW has faction specific mechs, does everyone have an ECM mech?

Going that route: they would have to, in the name of balance. But there are arguably too few ECM carriers it is when you ignore how powerful ECM can be when looking at how few mech variants out of the total number in the game are allowed to carry it at present.

Or alternatively reimagine what ECM does, low effort route (and therefore PGI route) would be something like pressing a button to make it only active for x seconds or in that general ballpark of imagination. I could see it becoming a consumable module down that route too because: PGI.

Edited by NextGame, 02 June 2014 - 10:37 AM.

[Koniving]

My desires? Signature link on the left "What 3/3/3/3 cost us."
Dropships, tonnage limits set realistically by (the dropships), defending team limits set by "what we left on this planet", repair and rearm, "parts and ammunition drops," garrison building, limited reinforcement waves (We didn't go max tonnage with our 12 players; so a couple of us have reinforcements). The list goes on.

My expectations?
Skirmish.
Skirmish with drills.
Skirmish with turrets.
Skirmish with one side forced to camp while the other side is forced to rush (the upcoming one-sided assault mode (dubbed in the past as "Battlefield-style Rush") which we know won't pay for playing the object; why? Simple. As depicted in Assault, playing the objective is seen by PGI or at least some of its moderators as "Trolling.")

And don't forget a minigame between skirmishes! Oh joy! Ironically this is the most meaningful thing PGI will have released in a while. So in spite of my sarcasm and dim expectations, I'm looking forward to the minigame.

Spoiler

I just don't expect it to have any tangible or meaningful value, considering how almost every aspect that community warfare was going to bring us has been alienated through the removal of most rewards for playing objectives, a policy punishing those who play the objective (i.e. defending conquest or assault base by standing in the capture point while fighting -- well the wording is 'while afk' but someone has been punished for doing it while fending off 3 mechs -- is seen as 'obstructing gameplay'), and now the tonnage limits which was the only meaningful reason for the 216 million cbill dropships for CW... have been removed in favor of 3/3/3/3.

You can understand my cynicism here.

Edited by Koniving, 02 June 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[Reno Blade]

Kon, you didn't answer any of the two questions this thread is about.
Differences between factions and effects of conquered planets.

[ArmandTulsen]

I'm definitely on board with R&R coming back in CW.

[Reno Blade]

IF we will have R&R in CW mode, I would want it like this:

Faction specific variants and weapons would have 20% reduced price, repair and customization cost. Includes modules (like weapon modules).
Gaining higher reputation (loyalty points) the % would rise further.
Gaining higher reputation would also increase income from contracts (for mercs) or defending the borders (for house and lonewolfes).

In addition (example numbers) each house has a base bonus to certain technology (not variant dependent):
Steiner would have 5% better prices for the black market (all off-house items) and 15% for assault mechs
Davion would have 10% better prices for medium and heavy mechs, 15% for ACs
Liao would have 10% better prices for light and heavy mechs, 15% for Equipment (ECM, BAP, TAG), LRMs
Marik would have 15% better prices for heavy mechs and 20% for Laser
Kurita would have 10% better prices for light, medium and heavy mechs and 10% for PPCs
FRR would have 15% better prices for medium mechs and 15% for SRMs and Airstrikes

Note:
Mech discounts are for the chassis without any equipment only.
Variant discounts count for the complete stock mech variant. (Additional/changed weapons will not be affected after purchase by this bonus)


Advancing on the borders would slightly alter the % (1% per planet).
Certain planets (behind borders) which can be invaded by mercenaries can gain extra effects like
- variant XYZ bonus
- certain weapon or equipment types get cheaper
- transport cost (for starsystem with a space station or space dock) reduced




For example:

You are a Steiner pilot and you want to buy a new mech.
You would have 15% off for any assault mech and 5% off for anything else.
You decide to buy an 80 ton Zeus Steiner assault mech and would gain the 15% Steiner assault mech discount plus the 20% Steiner-Variant discount for a total of 35% off.
Now your friends conquered 10 planets in the last month and slaughtered many innocent evil kurita pilots.
These 10 planets give you additional 10% off for any transaction and you will pay only 45% of the original price for your 80t Zeus assault mech.

In addition you hold a planet with a space station that grants you 20% less travel costs and a planet with a factory for PPCs that grants you 20% reduced cost for PPCs and their repair and customization costs.
You will equip your Zeus with a brand new PPC for 25% off the price (5% black market Steiner bonus + 20% planetary bonus).

After a battle you can repair your PPC for 25% less again.
The chassis (Internals and armor) will be 45% off (like when you bought the mech), but the equiped AC will only be 5% off, as it is a Davion weapon and you only get the blackmarket Steiner bonus.

After reaching the next loyality rank, the bonus of each Steiner bonus is increased by 10%.
- Steiner Blackmarket bonus 5% base + 0.5% (additional 10% of the 5% base) ( for non-Steiner equipment. not added to the total for a Steiner variant)
- Steiner Assault bonus of 15% base + 1.5% (10% of 15%)
- Steiner Variant bonus of 20% base + 2.0% (10% of 25%)
- 10 planet bonus of 10% total (no loyalty bonus)
Total: 45% + 3.5% = 48.5% (for steiner assault variants)


Quick timewarp to the future:
You rised to loyalty rank 5 (max) with house Steiner and helped conquer 30 planets from Clan Jade Falcon and gained the Rank of Duke of the Isle of Sky.
- Steiner Blackmarket bonus 5% base + 2.5% (5 level for 10% each = 50% extra) =7.5% ( for non-Steiner equipment. not added to the total for a Steiner variant)
- Steiner Assault bonus of 15% base + 7.5% (5x 1.5%) = 22.5%
- Steiner Variant bonus of 20% base + 10% (5x 2%) = 30%
- 30 planet bonus of 30% total (no loyalty bonus)
Total: 65% + 17.5% = 82.5% discount for Steiner assault variants

And as a Duke, your bonus is calculated as if your loyalty level would be one level higher (max +1) = level 6.
(I see this as the maximum for a player to reach)
- Steiner Blackmarket bonus 5% base + 3% (6 level for 10% each = 50% extra) =7.5% ( for non-Steiner equipment. not added to the total for a Steiner variant)
- Steiner Assault bonus of 15% base + 9% (6x 1.5%) = 24%
- Steiner Variant bonus of 20% base + 12% (6x 2%) = 32%
- 30 planet bonus of 30% total (no loyalty bonus)
Total: 65% + 21% = 86% discount for Steiner assault variants

for any assault mech: 24% (assault) +30% (planets) = 54%
for any steiner non-assault mech variant: 32% (variant) + 30% (planets) = 62%
for any non-assault and non-steiner variant: 8% (black market) + 30% (planets) = 38%

Edited by Reno Blade, 02 June 2014 - 03:21 PM.

[Reno Blade]

Now where are all your expectations? Similar to these, or would you want more?

[Reno Blade]

I could see something added like this:

To fight for a planet, you would start a "campaign" or "invasion".
This would be a series of fights that would need to be completed to a certain degree (say 10 battles in a timeframe of 1 day).

You would need to bring X mechs per player (up to 8 dropship slots were mentioned in one of the CC posts about CW).
You would have certain contract or campaign variables including:
- income per battle
- % of lost structure/ammo/armor repaired by contractor
- price for repair and rearm depending on standing to the contractor (see Faction/House bonus above)
Between the battles, you would then get % of the repairs for each round (a round= battle the mech is not used) and can speed up remaining repair and rearm with your CBills.
Repair and Rearm might be limited to certain maximum per round.

Example:
Say, your Atlas got destroyed (Status is 20% total) and the contractor repairs 20% of the mech for free for each round ( battle this mech is not used) and you could repair up to 50% extra per round.
This would make sure you always have something to fight in, even with only basic repairs done, if you don't have many mechs, Dropship slots, or not enough Cbills to repair (because you lost too often).

You decide to bring a Victor for the second battle and pay for maximum available repair from your own or your units CBill bank.
After the second battle, the Atlas (from 20%) will get 20% repaired by the contractor to bring the Atlas structure, armor and ammo up to 40% status.
You decide to also repair the full additional 50% by yourself to a maximum of 90% armor, ammo and structure values.
You can now decide if you want to spend another round for repair, or take the Atlas with 90% repair into the 3rd battle and repair your Victor, or take any other mech from your Dropship slots.

[Reno Blade]

I wonder if I scared people off with this topic, or if most people just don't want to read/write a lot ?

This thread is about the differences between factions
and the consequences of conqering planets in CW for you and your faction.
If you want to post about what you expect or what you want in this context, feel free to add your post here.

[Reno Blade]

Let's talk about the Clans and their effect conpared to the IS.

Without putting in a new payment system (honor points or something) they will still use CBills and the whole system could stay as is.
But what would change compared to IS house/merc units with their CBills and Loyalty points?