200 replies to this topic

[Hans Von Lohman]

When (eventually) the 3x4 gets put in we will need good medium mech builds.

Also, the smaller the mech, the more efficient the engine. The Blackjack is fast enough, not great, but it works.

Larger mechs I own tend to only have double heat sinks, but be standard tech for everything else, while mediums and lights nearly all have XL engines, Endo, and often FF armor as well.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 02 June 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Armored Yokai]

replace all the merchandise with the patch.

Edited by Armored Yokai, 02 June 2014 - 01:02 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Strum Wealh, on 02 June 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

The loadout posted in the OP doesn't exactly match any of the proposals from the NGNG Hero BJ thread, but the weapon layout does come close to the "Death Dealer" proposal made by Bhael Fire.

Hopefully the extra 3 tons used by going with MPL instead of a second LPL goes to giving it a 270xl engine, especially after they decided to make the max engine on the Loup de Guerre the same as it base engine. =/

Kyle Wright, on 02 June 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Who cares about the hero mech. The weapons and the changes to jump jets is what matters most.

I care?


It's a Medium. You know Bishop is addicted to Medium Mech action........

[Khobai]

I see no real advantage to using LPLs over PPCs.

Especially when the BJ has JJs and the speed to stay over 90m away.

LPLs are still a horrible weapon that dont even come close to being as effective as PPCs.

Edited by Khobai, 02 June 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[Kyle Wright]

Wow you guys are like a dog chasing a squirrel... Look at the new shiny everybody. When all we have heard is people complaining about wanting balance and nerd pop tarts and now you are getting what could be the biggest patch for weapons balance since CB, but instead it's ewwww and ahhh with a new Blackjack Hero. Please....

[Bishop Steiner]

Kyle Wright, on 02 June 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Wow you guys are like a dog chasing a squirrel... Look at the new shiny everybody. When all we have heard is people complaining about wanting balance and nerd pop tarts and now you are getting what could be the biggest patch for weapons balance since CB, but instead it's ewwww and ahhh with a new Blackjack Hero. Please....

don't hate, appreciate!
(and I'm still not happy with a ton of stuff.....and probably will hate the stereotype Shaka Zulu paint job some schlub will probably slap onto the Arrow, because...well, PGI)

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 02 June 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

The X5 doesn't really need much changing does it? Outside of giving it back AMS and/or just expanding the # of tubes (to at least 6) on the missile hardpoints (as part of the dynamic hardpoint visual changes) would be sufficient.

I'd take AMS in a hurry. Though, I'd be happy with a full 100% speed in reverse as compensation instead of it. 75% just isn't enough

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

Hopefully the extra 3 tons used by going with MPL instead of a second LPL goes to giving it a 270xl engine, especially after they decided to make the max engine on the Loup de Guerre the same as it base engine. =/

I'm trying to imagine what kind of build necessitates something bigger than a 325XL engine on a bucket. Maybe I'm just riddled with 255XL to 325XL engines to not notice a difference anymore...

Quote

It's a Medium. You know Bishop is addicted to Medium Mech action........

Oh how can I say no to that.... oh wait...

I've mastered 30 medium variants total... and still waiting for the Vindicator. I have not played in a Wolverine yet. I think "crazy" is in the DNA!

[cSand]

Kyle Wright, on 02 June 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Wow you guys are like a dog chasing a squirrel... Look at the new shiny everybody. When all we have heard is people complaining about wanting balance and nerd pop tarts and now you are getting what could be the biggest patch for weapons balance since CB, but instead it's ewwww and ahhh with a new Blackjack Hero. Please....

OUR OVERLORD HAS ARRIVED

BOW DOWN ALL YE PEASANTS

Edited by cSand, 02 June 2014 - 01:13 PM.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 02 June 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

I'd take AMS in a hurry. Though, I'd be happy with a full 100% speed in reverse as compensation instead of it. 75% just isn't enough

Are you sure? Have to driven a Commando lately? Those things fly, even though they lose their arms at the same rate the Embers do...

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 02 June 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

I see no real advantage to use LPLs over PPCs.

Especially when the BJ has JJs and the speed to stay over 90m away.

LPL is still a horrible weapon that doesnt even come close to being as effective as PPCs.

trying to maintain that 90 meters while maximizing the MGs would be somewhat more difficult, though not impossible.

but let's see

LRG PULSE LASER 10.60 8.00 3.25 350/700
PPC 10.00 10.00 4.00 90 - 540/1,080

For an infighter, the (very) slightly faster cycle time, higher damage, significantly lower heat and no minimum range, can be rather nice. And since PPCs don't fit in the CT of a mech, there might be that, too. If the mech wasn't going to mostly be built around 6 MG, I might agree, though my KDr in my La Malinche has doubled since going to LPL, go figure.

Deathlike, on 02 June 2014 - 01:06 PM, said:

I'm trying to imagine what kind of build necessitates something bigger than a 325XL engine on a bucket. Maybe I'm just riddled with 255XL to 325XL engines to not notice a difference anymore...

it's not so much a matter of need, as the precedent it sets to possibly saddle future Heroes with much less generous base engines with said engines as their cap, too.

But hey, you know, 4 SSRM, 2 mediums some JJ and all engine on the Bucket would make the Kintaro cry as a "scout hunter".

[Felio]

I used to be an adventurer like you...

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

you are starting to sound like a L33T there Fup, like Vassagil Pain in his prime. You seem to overlook how much the various peripherals like mech agility, weapon placement and such can affect how well an individual pilot can do in a design, because for whatever mixture of reasons it fits him better.

Mech agility (in this case, referring to the rate at which you turn/twist/etc rather than the max limit) is usually based on engine size in this game (with quirks here and there). One result of this is that two mechs with the same top speed will often have the same agility (or fairly close) as a result. One funny case of this is that a Spider or Jenner with a top speed of 97.2 kph (without tweak) would have the same agility as any 55 ton medium with the same speed. A Jester Cat with max engine can get close but is slightly less responsive.

For weapon placement, a Jag can usually get close to the BJ, except for a lacking arm lasers. But since there are no lower arm actuators on either mech, torso lasers aren't as hard to aim in that case.


I see what you're trying to say here, but the BJ doesn't seem to have any "objective" (as in, measurable) traits in favor of it over a heavy if you don't go at least 90kph. There might be a purely psychological "placebo" effect of sorts, but that is really about it.

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

By meta, and smurfy reasoning, my GRF-1N "IL FIANCHETTO" should be utter crap, yet I have a 3.43 WLr and 3.6 KDr with it 53 matches in. Because for whatever odd reason it works for me.

Your Griff actually has advantages over other mechs. It carries more guns and armor than mechs smaller that itself, and is a notch faster than and waaay more agile than mechs larger than itself. It also has good hitboxes, and jets. That's not really a good example to support your argument.

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

I know way too many guys who run BJs like a boss to sit there and trash them. On paper they should suck, for whatever reason, their individual blend of attributes just click for some people.

The BJs I tend to see usually die violently, often by my doing or I play a big part in it at least. One of my rules of thumb is that I avoid buying mechs that I have an easy time killing usually. Conversely, mechs that give me a lot of trouble tend to be on my future purchase list... (I did that for Victors, and oh boy was it glorious until the agility nerfs).

Edited by FupDup, 02 June 2014 - 01:15 PM.

[Kyle Wright]

Bishop I love mediums to man. Just last two weeks you know how it's been people grabbing the hang man's noose over the meta and meta pilots. Now justice is being served as if no one cares anymore.

[Ihasa]

Kyle Wright, on 02 June 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

Wow you guys are like a dog chasing a squirrel... Look at the new shiny everybody. When all we have heard is people complaining about wanting balance and nerd pop tarts and now you are getting what could be the biggest patch for weapons balance since CB, but instead it's ewwww and ahhh with a new Blackjack Hero. Please....

And that's why they keep on pumping out hero mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 02 June 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

Mech agility (in this case, referring to the rate at which you turn/twist/etc rather than the max limit) is usually based on engine size in this game (with quirks here and there). One result of this is that two mechs with the same top speed will often have the same agility (or fairly close) as a result. One funny case of this is that a Spider or Jenner with a top speed of 97.2 kph (without tweak) would have the same agility as any 55 ton medium with the same speed. A Jester Cat with max engine can get close but is slightly less responsive.

So why is my Griff vastly more agile than My Shadowhawk?

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

it's not so much a matter of need, as the precedent it sets to possibly saddle future Heroes with much less generous base engines with said engines as their cap, too.

But hey, you know, 4 SSRM, 2 mediums some JJ and all engine on the Bucket would make the Kintaro cry as a "scout hunter".

I like the Streakhawk or StreakGriffin better (well, moreso the former due to much better hardpoint placement). Just looking over smurfy's... the engine cap is "relatively restrictive" (I had forgotten about the 3C's speed cap) so while you're right about that cap being problematic, stripping a Trebuchet in my experience isn't that hard (Cent-D is a lot more scary in my experience due to weapon hardpoint placement).

I guess I can agree with you there to a degree.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 June 2014 - 01:23 PM.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

So why is my Griff vastly more agile than My Shadowhawk?

Because PGI blessed the Griff (and Wolvie) with very high torso yaw quirks, presumably to help them compete with papa Shad.

Edited by FupDup, 02 June 2014 - 01:24 PM.

[Felio]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 June 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

well, you know to me what all these MGs mean? Ember, Huggin, now the Arrow? Soon enough MG QQ will come to nerf them back to oblivion.

I wonder what the 2H champ is bringing to the party. I want to like it because it has the (P) bonus, but I just can't stop hating machine guns.

Just a couple of days ago I was piloting the 2H with three MGs and fired point-blank at a legged light's remaining leg (cherry red internals) for several seconds before someone else got the kill. They may specialize in internal damage, but they do nothing well. One medium laser would have done the job in 1 second or less.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 02 June 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Because PGI blessed the Griff (and Wolvie) with very high torso yaw quirks, presumably to help them compete with papa Shad.

TBH, they did it across the board more or less.. some more noticeable than others.

For instance, I don't know how to make use of the Trebuchet's incredible arm pitch (the game doesn't seem to allow me to go further than it should be "physically possible"... although I woulder if Freelook would help out there).

Oh well.