67 replies to this topic

[Keeshu]

Elric Tchernovkov, on 05 June 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

So I guess I have gotten my response. A generic Clan tag of the Kerensky Dagger for anyone not wanting to be one of the original four invading clans. This is definitely a step in the right direction, and to be honest, more than I had hoped for. Let us face facts, no clanner wants to be associated in any way as a mercenary.

This will let us "unaffiliated clans" still be clans, and work toward goals as a united front. While I would prefer to have Clan Coyote tags before Clan Diamond Shark tags first, simply because of the MWO player base, I realize this may never happen. I believe the generic Clan tag is a decent compromise.

Wasn't Diamond Shark 1 or the 3 backup clans that were said to be added in the game at some point?

Is there a link to where we are getting the generic clan tag? If this is true I'm not sure whether or not to stay Kurita or take the generic tag. I like the clans in general, just all of them generally have 1 or 2 things I don't like when I start looking at specific clans.

[Dakkaface]

Keeshu, on 05 June 2014 - 03:15 PM, said:

Wasn't Diamond Shark 1 or the 3 backup clans that were said to be added in the game at some point?

Is there a link to where we are getting the generic clan tag? If this is true I'm not sure whether or not to stay Kurita or take the generic tag. I like the clans in general, just all of them generally have 1 or 2 things I don't like when I start looking at specific clans.

Diamond Shark was one of the three reserve clans and is slated for tags sometime in 2015, but they don't seem to have an active presence in the MWO community.

As for the generic Clan tag link: http://mwomercs.com/...213-clan-logos/

[TibsVT]

Pariah Devalis, on 05 June 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

Yeah, it should be perfectly doable to swap the LPLas and MPlas with a pair of ERPPC and a pair of ERMLas with two tons left over. Mech is horribly under ammo'd though, so you would be forced to choose either 2 more DHS or 2 more tons of ammo, because either way you are not in a good place, and a compromise is almost worse. :\

Figured that a bare minimum of 18 DHS is required for 2xERPPC, and that is only if you poptart, assuming current ERPPC heat and DHS values hold for Clan mechs (which they should). 19 is ideal bare minimum, 21 is ideal, 23 is excellent for main gunning the twin ERPPC.

No. PPCs will replace the whole arm pod. You take the LPL's out of that for PPCs you're not getting anything else in there. Pod space doesn't work off a critical slot rule. I don't think it would put the Mad Dog in the same position as two Gauss rifles but I'm not 100% on that. I'd need to do my homework.

EDIT: It would seem that PGI may need to look into the whole thing seriously before implementing the Mad Dog but regardless throwing PPCs on it will leave you with 2xER PPC and 2x LRM-20 (under the current system).

Edited by KelesK, 06 June 2014 - 01:14 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 01:02 AM, said:

No. PPCs will replace the whole arm pod. You take the LPL's out of that for PPCs you're not getting anything else in there. Pod space doesn't work off a critical slot rule. I don't think it would put the Mad Dog in the same position as two Gauss rifles but I'm not 100% on that. I'd need to do my homework.

EDIT: It would seem that PGI may need to look into the whole thing seriously before implementing the Mad Dog but regardless throwing PPCs on it will leave you with 2xER PPC and 2x LRM-20 (under the current system).

Whatcha on about there, KelesK? The Mad Dog carries a LPLas AND an MPLas in the arm. In each arm. As in 2E in each arm. One ERPPC will not fill that arm by any stretch of the imagination. Which is why I rage at the MW4 model since it does not follow the design rules of the mech at all.

[TibsVT]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 June 2014 - 04:36 AM, said:

Whatcha on about there, KelesK? The Mad Dog carries a LPLas AND an MPLas in the arm. In each arm. As in 2E in each arm. One ERPPC will not fill that arm by any stretch of the imagination. Which is why I rage at the MW4 model since it does not follow the design rules of the mech at all.

Placing a PPC on the arm of a Mad Dog replaces the hand actuator. I.e. both the LPL and MPL. Much alike how the Gauss Rifles replace the shoulder actuators in the C config. Hypothetically the same would apply if you attempted the same with an autocannon. Proof in example of this is the A config which runs with both of the listed examples. Like I mentioned - omnipods just don't work in that manner.

I will totally agree with you on the MW4 "Vulture" though. Talk about defiling my second favourite Mech.. Speaking of, isn't that supposed to be to Ghost Bear Dominion overhaul?

Edited by KelesK, 06 June 2014 - 05:17 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

The mad dog does not come with a hand actuator, and it does not replace it, it removes it. It also removes the arm actuator responsible for lateral movement. Space simply is not an issue, so I am still 100% confused as to why you would say it could not swap the MPLas and LLas for an ERPPC and ERMLas in each arm. 2E, plenty, plenty of space even if it was not a 2 crit ERPPC but an IS sized 3 crit unit. There is literally nothing in there but the two guns and the arm actuators. Well, and some ferro/endo crits, but not anywhere near enough to impact an energy build.

[TibsVT]

Unless what I'm looking at is misinformed I see the Mad Dog as having Shoulder, Upper and Lower Arm actuators. Not to mention that placing a PPC, Autocannon or Gauss in those spots removes all other equipment spots in that particular area. It has nothing to do with "hardpoints" when you're talking omnipods.

[Pariah Devalis]

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

Unless what I'm looking at is misinformed I see the Mad Dog as having Shoulder, Upper and Lower Arm actuators. Not to mention that placing a PPC, Autocannon or Gauss in those spots removes all other equipment spots in that particular area. It has nothing to do with "hardpoints" when you're talking omnipods.

It does when you deal with PGI's omnimech construction rules which are so neatly laid out. The Mad Dog Prime would have 2 energy hardpoints in each arm. Following me here? Good. You installed the ERPPC. That just, by default, removed the one arm actuator as installation of a PPC, AC, or Gauss removes the lateral motion actuator (cannot recall the specific name of it off the top of my head). You just freed up one crit slot in that arm* and you just used up one energy hardpoint because you installed that ERPPC.

( * well, technically, you broke even as a CLPLas is 1 crit and a CERPPC is 2 crits, but you get the point I hope)

You still have one more energy hardpoint in that arm and a metric f-ton of critical space available in the arm to stick another ERPPC, another MPLas, another MLas, or any other energy based weapon system tonnage permitting up to a maximum total of 2 energy weapons in that arm because you used the Prime configuration's arm which comes with, again, 2E hardpoints under the PGI system.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 June 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[TibsVT]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 June 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

It does when you deal with PGI's omnimech construction rules which are so neatly laid out. The Mad Dog Prime would have 2 energy hardpoints in each arm. Following me here? Good. You installed the ERPPC. That just, by default, removed the one arm actuator as installation of a PPC, AC, or Gauss removes the lateral motion actuator (cannot recall the specific name of it off the top of my head). You just freed up one crit slot in that arm and you just used up one energy hardpoint because you installed that ERPPC.

You still have one more energy hardpoint in that arm and a metric f-ton of critical space available in the arm to stick another ERPPC, another MPLas, another MLas, or any other energy based weapon system tonnage permitting up to a maximum total of 2 energy weapons in that arm because you used the Prime configuration's arm which comes with, again, 2E hardpoints under the PGI system.

But it does on PGI's system too. Check their posts. PPCs, autocannons and gauss rifles remove everything else in that area meaning you cannot stack them as you're implying.

[Pariah Devalis]

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

But it does on PGI's system too. Check their posts. PPCs, autocannons and gauss rifles remove everything else in that area meaning you cannot stack them as you're implying.

Only thing they remove is an arm actuator. Nothing else. It does not remove additional hardpoints or else the Warhawk is a walking contradiction.

[Keeshu]

I forgot about the fact that ER PPCs remove the Lower Arm Actuators. That'll make hitting lights more annoying on my Mad Dog. I've gotten so used to using weapons in the arms to deal with pesky lights with ease.

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

But it does on PGI's system too. Check their posts. PPCs, autocannons and gauss rifles remove everything else in that area meaning you cannot stack them as you're implying.

If the why wouldn't the Mad Dog be able to use 2 ER PPCs in the same arm? The Warhawk does it.
It only removes the Hand Actuator and Lower Arm Actuator.


I feel we need this link.
http://mwomercs.com/...we-know-so-far/
Edit: You guys post so fast.

Edited by Keeshu, 06 June 2014 - 05:43 AM.

[TibsVT]

Keeshu, on 06 June 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

I forgot about the fact that ER PPCs remove the Lower Arm Actuators. That'll make hitting lights more annoying on my Mad Dog. I've gotten so used to using weapons in the arms to deal with pesky lights with ease.

If the why wouldn't the Mad Dog be able to use 2 ER PPCs in the same arm? The Warhawk does it.
It only removes the Hand Actuator and Lower Arm Actuator.


I feel we need this link.
http://mwomercs.com/...we-know-so-far/
Edit: You guys post so fast.

The omnipods in the Warhawk and Dire Wolf would be set up differently. Either that or the actuators.

Edited by KelesK, 06 June 2014 - 05:48 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

The omnipods in the Warhawk and Dire Wolf would be set up differently

No, they will not. Functionally, they will not. The only thing removed is the actuator. Nothing else. That leaves crit slots and hardpoints. Clearly there is a disconnect and it is starting to frustrate me that you cannot seem to grasp it. I think you are overthinking or accidentally inventing rules to the mech construction that do not exist. It is very simple:

PPC/AC/Gauss = removed actuators, and only the actuator is removed.

Everything else, the same. Nothing else is removed. Hardpoints are left alone. Usable crit slots are improved, not decreased. No other limitations. Just plug and play.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 June 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[TibsVT]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 June 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

No, they will not. Functionally, they will not. The only thing removed is the actuator. Nothing else. That leaves crit slots and hardpoints. Clearly there is a disconnect and it is starting to frustrate me that you cannot seem to grasp it. I think you are overthinking or accidentally inventing rules to the mech construction that do not exist. It is very simple:

PPC/AC/Gauss = removed actuators, and only the actuator is removed.

Everything else, the same. Nothing else is removed. Hardpoints are left alone. Usable crit slots are improved, not decreased. No other limitations. Just plug and play.

Everything below is removed. You put the PPC on the hand and your MPL (2nd E 'hardpoint') is removed. It's clear as day in the PGI report. You lose that second energy spot.

[Pariah Devalis]

" If any of the following weapons are equipped in an OmniMech’s arm, any Lower Arm Actuator or Hand Actuator that was present in the base configuration is automatically removed: Any Gauss rifle, any autocannon, and any PPC."

That is all. That is all. There is nothing about weapons. Nothing about crits. Nothing about hard points. Nothing. But actuators.


Clear as day.

http://mwomercs.com/...gn-perspective/

Destined, on 03 February 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

In addition to the limitations of the base configuration, the following rules apply when customizing any OmniMech.

• If any of the following weapons are equipped in an OmniMech’s arm, any Lower Arm Actuator or Hand Actuator that was present in the base configuration is automatically removed:
  
  • Any Gauss rifle.
    
  • Any autocannon.
    
  • Any PPC.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 June 2014 - 05:56 AM.

[Keeshu]

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 05:46 AM, said:

The omnipods in the Warhawk and Dire Wolf would be set up differently. Either that or the actuators.

I'd like to see your source for this. It's not like they have a list of individual quirks like that for each mech right now, as of now the only quirk differences we really have for any mechs is basicly torso twist+speed.

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

Everything below is removed. You put the PPC on the hand and your MPL (2nd E 'hardpoint') is removed. It's clear as day in the PGI report. You lose that second energy spot.

Source please, why would it remove the second energy hardpoint?

[TibsVT]

In addition to the limitations of the base configuration, the following rules apply when customizing any OmniMech.If any of the following weapons are equipped in an OmniMech’s arm, any Lower Arm Actuator or Hand Actuator that was present in the base configuration is automatically removed:
Any Gauss rifle.
Any autocannon.
Any PPC.

http://mwomercs.com/...d-construction/

Edited by KelesK, 06 June 2014 - 05:58 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

In addition to the limitations of the base configuration, the following rules apply when customizing any OmniMech.If any of the following weapons are equipped in an OmniMech’s arm, any Lower Arm Actuator or Hand Actuator that was present in the base configuration is automatically removed:
Any Gauss rifle.
Any autocannon.
Any PPC.

Exactly. Point to me on the doll where the ERPPC took away your other hardpoints?

(Hint: It did not.)

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 June 2014 - 05:58 AM.

[Keeshu]

KelesK, on 06 June 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

In addition to the limitations of the base configuration, the following rules apply when customizing any OmniMech.If any of the following weapons are equipped in an OmniMech’s arm, any Lower Arm Actuator or Hand Actuator that was present in the base configuration is automatically removed:
Any Gauss rifle.
Any autocannon.
Any PPC.

Lower Arm Actuator + Hand Actuator.
This doesn't mention anything about removing the rest of the crit slots in the arm. Or Removing all other Hard points in the arm.

[TibsVT]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 June 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

Exactly. Point to me on the doll where the ERPPC took away your other hardpoints?

(Hint: It did not.)

Pariah.. I have a large deal of respect for you but surely you are having me on...

"If any of the following weapons are equipped in an OmniMech’s arm, any Lower Arm Actuator or Hand Actuator that was present in the base configuration is automatically removed"