52 replies to this topic

[Tweaks]

I personally vote for the true canon variants only, I don't want to see custom variants or anything else than the canon ones.

What say you?

Edit: I have added a new option in the poll.

Edited by Tweaks, 13 November 2011 - 10:09 PM.

[Datum]

Do you mean that are purchasable or able to be modified into?
If I were to buy something, then yes, I'd prefer a canon variant, but for me the most fun thing about Battletech as a whole is endlessly tinkering with the mech you bought until it's completely bonkers and then just seeing if it works.

[MagnusEffect]

If we can't customize, the variants need to be tweaked as to be balanced. I say give us some canon variants, but definitely allow the devs leeway to make sure all mechs are viable choices. Some of the canon setups sucked.

[Seth]

I want the option to play in stock games only and the ability to customize my mech.

[Tweaks]

Datum, on 13 November 2011 - 07:56 PM, said:

Do you mean that are purchasable or able to be modified into?
If I were to buy something, then yes, I'd prefer a canon variant, but for me the most fun thing about Battletech as a whole is endlessly tinkering with the mech you bought until it's completely bonkers and then just seeing if it works.

True BattleTech never allowed you to customize a 'Mech variant. If you bought it that way, it stayed that way. The MechWarrior games ruined it by allowing players to fully customize the variants to their liking or plain stripping a 'Mech down completely. I always hated that about those games. I would have preferred if they sticked to canon variants only.

So to answer your question, I think you should be able to "convert" a 'Mech from one canon variant into another, but at high cost (and time) only. Otherwise, you'd buy the variant as is.

I don't think you should be able to swap a single weapon and replace it for another for example, or worse, stripping down your 'Mech to create something totally new...

[Halfinax]

Tweaks, on 13 November 2011 - 08:03 PM, said:

True BattleTech never allowed you to customize a 'Mech variant. If you bought it that way, it stayed that way. The MechWarrior games ruined it by allowing players to fully customize the variants to their liking or plain stripping a 'Mech down completely. I always hated that about those games. I would have preferred if they sticked to canon variants only.

So to answer your question, I think you should be able to "convert" a 'Mech from one canon variant into another, but at high cost (and time) only. Otherwise, you'd buy the variant as is.

I don't think you should be able to swap a single weapon and replace it for another for example, or worse, stripping down your 'Mech to create something totally new...

If non-canonical variants are allowed I'd rather see them be within a faction, and not at the player level. Perhaps even requiring either the purchasing power, or control of a 'Mech producing planet (i.e. one that has a 'Mech Factory). Faction funds would be used to create the new variant and from there players in that faction could purchase it. If they lose the plant the plans for the new variant stay with it.

[Tweaks]

MagnusEffect, on 13 November 2011 - 07:58 PM, said:

If we can't customize, the variants need to be tweaked as to be balanced. I say give us some canon variants, but definitely allow the devs leeway to make sure all mechs are viable choices. Some of the canon setups sucked.

The "tweaking" you mention would come with the variants they choose to implement. If some cannon variants really sucked, then they will probably not implement them. It's not the variants themselves that will create imbalance. It's how they balance individual weapons (damage, RoF, heat output, etc...)

[Gorthaur]

i liked mechwarrior 3 with variant A, B, C and so on. but canon variants would be cool to. but it is still a mechwarrior game, so there should still be some form of customization.

[Helo Calister]

@ Tweaks what do you mean Battletech never allowed you to customize? The rule books have Chps on how to customize or "make" your own mech. I say let people buy stock and let them customize but make it really expensive or difficult to do. Cause during this time period only really "famous" people were getting non canon mechs

[Tweaks]

Gorthaur, on 13 November 2011 - 08:12 PM, said:

i liked mechwarrior 3 with variant A, B, C and so on. but canon variants would be cool to. but it is still a mechwarrior game, so there should still be some form of customization.

In The FAQ, they do say they are trying to stay as close as possible to canon and TT rules. I hope by that they also meant canon variants.

In terms of role play and player immersion, it would be (in my opinion) much better if they gradually added canon variants to the selection of 'Mechs available on the market as the in-game timeline goes forward.

[Halfinax]

Helo Calister, on 13 November 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

@ Tweaks what do you mean Battletech never allowed you to customize? The rule books have Chps on how to customize or "make" your own mech. I say let people buy stock and let them customize but make it really expensive or difficult to do. Cause during this time period only really "famous" people were getting non canon mechs

Techmanual is rules on creating NEW 'Mechs. As far as I know it does not go into modifying an existing chassis or the costs associated with that, however; if another of the core books goes into the latter I'd love to see some citation on it.

[benefedaykin]

I voted for cannon variants, but I think there is definitely a place for custom mechs.

[EDIT: Vote changed due to new poll option]

Maybe we can only purchase cannon variants from the houses/merc corps, but then we can customize them after market at the expense of large amounts of (in-game) cash... That way a balance of sorts can be achieved and new players have a change to try out some cannon variants that are known to work before they spend a lot of time making a mech that looks cool but has poor functionality...

Also, players could save cash by buying a variant that is already close to the custom one that they want built. Fewer parts needed to be swapped out means a cheaper custom mech...

Edited by benefedaykin, 13 November 2011 - 10:41 PM.

[Blueduck]

Canon Variants with very limited and difficult customization. Even by the 3049 era there should be enough flavors among Mechs to satisfy almost any taste.

[Tweaks]

Helo Calister, on 13 November 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

@ Tweaks what do you mean Battletech never allowed you to customize? The rule books have Chps on how to customize or "make" your own mech. I say let people buy stock and let them customize but make it really expensive or difficult to do. Cause during this time period only really "famous" people were getting non canon mechs

I checked the rulebook, and there's a huge section on CONSTRUCTION, but not nothing on customizing existing variants. The way I understand it, it's that a player could create a completely new 'Mech chassis from the ground up (not a variant of an existing chassis). There's nothing in that chapter that indicates you have to pick from existing chassis, so it looks as though they just gave the player leeway to invent their own.

I don't see how this could be implemented in MWO the way it's explained in the rulebook.

I'm referring to 1604 - Battletech, 4th Edition Rulebook, page 40

I've never played the table top game myself, and all I did was look at that book (got a PDF version of it), so forgive me if it explains customization somewhere else cause I didn't see it.

Edited by Tweaks, 13 November 2011 - 08:31 PM.

[Sartris]

Tweaks, on 13 November 2011 - 08:27 PM, said:

I checked the rulebook, and there's a huge section on CONSTRUCTION, but not nothing on customizing existing variants. The way I understand it, it's that a player could create a completely new 'Mech chassis from the ground up (not a variant of an existing chassis). There's nothing in that chapter that indicates you have to pick from existing chassis, so it looks as though they just gave the player leeway to invent their own.

I don't see how this could be implemented in MWO the way it's explained in the rulebook.

I'm referring to 1604 - Battletech, 4th Edition Rulebook, page 40

I've never played the table top game myself, and all I did was look at that book (got a PDF version of it), so forgive me if it explains customization somewhere else cause I didn't see it.

Newest series of rulebooks accounts for this - Strategic Operations has a complete section on how mechs are customized in-universe. The modifications vary from the kind that can be done in the field by your technicians to those that require returning the mech to the factory for a complete overhaul.

[Halfinax]

Sartris, on 13 November 2011 - 09:03 PM, said:

Newest series of rulebooks accounts for this - Strategic Operations has a complete section on how mechs are customized in-universe. The modifications vary from the kind that can be done in the field by your technicians to those that require returning the mech to the factory for a complete overhaul.

Neat, I'll have to get a hold on it, and check it out.

[Meth0s]

The ability for players to make their own variants adds lots of replayability. It allows players/teams to develop their own playstyle, and is one of the features that seperates the mechwarrior games apart. It really is one of the key features that allowed MW4 to be played for so long.

As for canon, canon doesn't work so well. Canon is based on moving on a hex map, its also based on mechs being designed to handle infantry, tanks and aero. Since those won't be in the game, the variants would need to be adjusted.

[Sartris]

MethosFurey, on 13 November 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

The ability for players to make their own variants adds lots of replayability. It allows players/teams to develop their own playstyle, and is one of the features that seperates the mechwarrior games apart. It really is one of the key features that allowed MW4 to be played for so long.

As for canon, canon doesn't work so well. Canon is based on moving on a hex map, its also based on mechs being designed to handle infantry, tanks and aero. Since those won't be in the game, the variants would need to be adjusted.

A fair point. I'm all for player-made variants as long as you have to earn them in some way.

[Halfinax]

MethosFurey, on 13 November 2011 - 09:16 PM, said:

The ability for players to make their own variants adds lots of replayability. It allows players/teams to develop their own playstyle, and is one of the features that seperates the mechwarrior games apart. It really is one of the key features that allowed MW4 to be played for so long.

As for canon, canon doesn't work so well. Canon is based on moving on a hex map, its also based on mechs being designed to handle infantry, tanks and aero. Since those won't be in the game, the variants would need to be adjusted.

The customization in MW4 is the reason I didn't play MW4 it wasn't about skill it was about the right build. If you didn't use one of the handful of winning variants you generally lost. I think the reason it had longevity is more about the fact that it was the last official Mechwarrior simulation.

[Meth0s]

Halfinax, here's an example. 4erll ryoken. Do you want lots of HS and 92kph, or do you want few heat sinks and 110 KPH? The difference would change the entire way you'd approach using the ryoken, and the way your team would play. With the latter, you knew you couldn't get into a stand up and shoot battle, so you'd have to position yourself with ways to shoot-and-fade. So it wasn't just a handful of options.

In fact, I'd say that in the teams I was in, each player would typically have a slightly different variant of the primary mechs. When it came to brawling variants, these exposed itself even more. The options between lbx, UACs, cstrks, rockets, rac5s, medium lasers... it was tons of fun. In the stock leagues I played in, few mechs were used, because only a few proved to be useful. Even with multiple stock variants (UTS stock league was fun), you ended up with a far shorter amount of variance than what would occur in non-stock leagues.