220 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

FlipOver, on 05 June 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

What do you know?

All the matches I played like that managed easy kills and always 200+ damage... omg I must be so damn skilled!!!

If you are only doing 200+ damage with any build and bragging about how easy it is to play...I would suggest you reconsider your position. If I do less than 350-400 damage, in a terrible build, I feel like I cheated my team out of someone useful. If I am playing a meta mech and do less than 500, then I did it wrong. Seriously...

If doing over 200 damage with a kill is your entire match goals...then meta is simply not your concern, you are not on their level yet, and the issue is FAR more likely to actually be YOUR skill. The build they use is optimized, but they do 500+ damage per match for a reason...and you are not for the same reason.

[Lyoto Machida]

Gyrok, on 05 June 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

If you are only doing 200+ damage with any build and bragging about how easy it is to play...I would suggest you reconsider your position. If I do less than 350-400 damage, in a terrible build, I feel like I cheated my team out of someone useful. If I am playing a meta mech and do less than 500, then I did it wrong. Seriously...

If doing over 200 damage with a kill is your entire match goals...then meta is simply not your concern, you are not on their level yet, and the issue is FAR more likely to actually be YOUR skill. The build they use is optimized, but they do 500+ damage per match for a reason...and you are not for the same reason.

There is much truth to this statement.

[Nikkoru]

Mystere, on 05 June 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

How would you know? Have you practiced them to the extent required to make a determination?

Yes, I have practiced headshotting enough to know it is not something you can rely on.

Derp

Mystere, on 05 June 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

Isn't this supposed to be a team-based game? Why does requiring coordination make the counter invalid?

Requiring unreasonable levels of coordination means there is a balance issue.

Derp Derp

[Mcgral18]

Nikkoru, on 05 June 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Requiring unreasonable levels of coordination means there is a balance issue.

Derp Derp

"Unreasonable"
AKA, firing at the same target the pug next to you is firing at.

With magical instantaneously converging weapons.

[Nikkoru]

Mcgral18, on 05 June 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

"Unreasonable"
AKA, firing at the same target the pug next to you is firing at.

With magical instantaneously converging weapons.

That's not what he said.
He said that when a poptart jumps up, all of your team should simultaneously hit him with ppc's

Looks like you just earned a Derp too.

[Mystere]

Nikkoru, on 05 June 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

Derp
Derp Derp

The only derps I see around are those complaining about poptarts instead of continually practicing.

Edited by Mystere, 05 June 2014 - 05:27 PM.

[Mcgral18]

AssaultPig, on 05 June 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

I love how all of the 'counters' to poptarting require either 1) coordination from multiple friendles

Nikkoru, on 05 June 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

That's not what he said.
He said that when a poptart jumps up, all of your team should simultaneously hit him with ppc's

Looks like you just earned a Derp too.

He never stated PPC. Use lasers if you can't aim.

What a derp. Perhaps reading would help you.

[Nikkoru]

Mcgral18, on 05 June 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

He never stated PPC. Use lasers if you can't aim.

What a derp. Perhaps reading would help you.

If shooting back at jump snipers was a viable tactic, people would have been successfully doing so for monthes.

That's a second derp for you

[Mcgral18]

Nikkoru, on 05 June 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

If shooting back at jump snipers was a viable tactic, people would have been successfully doing so for monthes.

That's a second derp for you

Are you daft? Do you cuddle the poptarts? How do you think you deal with them?

[Prezimonto]

Khobai, on 04 June 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

Not really. Have you fired an AC10 recently? It crawls in slow motion towards the target.

What makes PPCs so effective as a sniping weapon is their high projectile velocity.

It is a bolt of light guided lightning. I don't want it to be slow, it's still just too good for jump jet mechs though. It's hot enough that it's not a clearly superior weapon in close, or when you can't easily get to cover (in most cases), but when your cover is automatic it's just too good.

I've been liking some of the suggestions I've seen lately about giving the PPC a heat damage component and backing off the direct damage a little.

I just posted this in a another thread:

Quote

I'd like to see weapons that rely on the transfer of kinetic energy to deal damage to have decent chances to deflect off angled and/or moving armor. This would make torso twisting, essentially, add damage reduction, and a wide number of mechs with angled plates would benefit as well.

PPC's and lasers should deal some of their damage as heat, and armor softening. Perhaps 7 damage and an increasing scale depending on how cherry red the armor location is, to negate the armor damage reduction. If armor is missing the PPC/laser should deal some heat damage directly to the target.

Flamers would be sort of inverse lasers/PPCs... very low damage, but adds head a lot quicker, and negates the damage reduction much faster.

This provides a synergy between energy weapons an AC's and moreover provides a reason to stagger fire energy weapons first and kinetic weapons after. It also provides a much more active form of defense for players to work on during matches.

Edited by Prezimonto, 05 June 2014 - 05:40 PM.

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 05 June 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

Are you daft? Do you cuddle the poptarts? How do you think you deal with them?

Go to the forums and cry?

[Mcgral18]

Mystere, on 05 June 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Go to the forums and cry?

If they had a problem with poptarts, they likely would.


Weapon balance is entirely different.

[Mystere]

Prezimonto, on 05 June 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

I've been liking some of the suggestions I've seen lately about giving the PPC a heat damage component and backing off the direct damage a little.

Damage is just still damage though. As such, I prefer a 5 second or so HUD disruption instead (vision distortion, lost lock, mini-map interference, etc.). The basic idea is to disrupt the target physically, mentally, and psychologically.

[DAYLEET]

Divine Retribution, on 04 June 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

I figured PGI is catering to the meta players because careful analysis showed that meta players can fully support the game financially. The other 80% of players are occasionally thrown a bone so that they continue playing, thus giving the meta players ample targets. But honestly meta is only an issue when ran by groups of skilled players (who rarely if ever run anything else).

Meta players dont need tp spend shits, all they need is buy the few popular mechs, it's the rest of us that buys everything that makes pgi eat but you are right in a sense, it IS our fault but not for not spending but for spending, pgi wont make major change as long as we give em cash.

[Wolfways]

AssaultPig, on 05 June 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

I love how all of the 'counters' to poptarting require either 1) coordination from multiple friendles or 2) otherworldly accuracy or 3) both.

I mean, your 'counter' to poptarts is "well, just headshot them when they jump, duhhhhhhh"

Actually the counter to poptarts is knowing how to use terrain, and coordination from teammates if the poptart has help from his teammates. It is a team game after all.

[Aresye]

Mystere, on 05 June 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Damage is just still damage though. As such, I prefer a 5 second or so HUD disruption instead (vision distortion, lost lock, mini-map interference, etc.). The basic idea is to disrupt the target physically, mentally, and psychologically.

Oh good, so now we're suggesting more stunlock options. Think getting repetitively pelted with LRM-5s is frustrating enough by not being able to fire back and/or see? Now just imagine 6-8 Victors all hitting you with PPC fire, each one causing HUD disruption and unable to fire back.

The biggest problem I see with poptarts is the very thing your suggestion would only make worse, which is the ability to fire back.

Mechs drop too quickly as soon as jump jets are released, so by the time a player can react, the poptart has already got their shot off, and the player has missed the opportunity to fire back.

I say lengthen the amount of air time. Give a bigger window to return fire, and give the gravitational differences between maps an actual purpose. Make it more of a skill for the player to determine how much of a jump they need. Too much and they're fully exposed, too little and they can't shoot.

This would also have the effect of lengthening the overall cycle between jumps, because the longer it takes to get back to the ground (however minor it may be), the longer it takes for them to make a subsequent jump.

[Mystere]

Aresye, on 05 June 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Oh good, so now we're suggesting more stunlock options. Think getting repetitively pelted with LRM-5s is frustrating enough by not being able to fire back and/or see? Now just imagine 6-8 Victors all hitting you with PPC fire, each one causing HUD disruption and unable to fire back.

I don't know about you, but I enjoyed using PPCs against poptarts in River City during the time when they were considered worthless. It also seemed to have stopped them more often than not from firing whenever my shots hit.

It was also very good practice for me and may be the reason why poptarts don't bother me much.

Edited by Mystere, 05 June 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[Wolfways]

Nikkoru, on 05 June 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

If shooting back at jump snipers was a viable tactic, people would have been successfully doing so for monthes.

That's a second derp for you

No, people would come to the forums to whine about it like they do with LRM's, PPC's, Gauss...just whatever killed them basically.

[Wolfways]

Aresye, on 05 June 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Oh good, so now we're suggesting more stunlock options. Think getting repetitively pelted with LRM-5s is frustrating enough by not being able to fire back and/or see? Now just imagine 6-8 Victors all hitting you with PPC fire, each one causing HUD disruption and unable to fire back.

I think if you're getting hit by "6-8 Victors" you've got bigger problems than HUD disruption

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Wolfways, on 05 June 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

Actually the counter to poptarts is knowing how to use terrain, and coordination from teammates if the poptart has help from his teammates. It is a team game after all.

No.
Did you even watch the later tournament videos, they were horrible. It lacked any depth or excitement. I could go on for pages with actual lore and game-mechanic reasons why poptarting is bad for MWO. But I don't need to, the videos that PGI collected say it all.
If you enjoyed them, or think that poptarting should be in MWO, then maybe PONG is the video game you are looking for.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 05 June 2014 - 06:43 PM.