40 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Diablobo, on 04 June 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

Perhaps PGI can't use the old logos without paying FASA another fee. It's probably something to do with more copyright bullcrap. They purchased the use of the IP, logos not included.

They can still use the old logo, with some minor changes. Hence the whole deal about the incoming survey.

I mean, PGI already can use the old IS logos, why not Clan ones?

Edited by El Bandito, 04 June 2014 - 09:47 PM.

[kazlaton]

I'm glad they didn't "rework" the inner sphere logos. I feel bad for the clans.

[N0MAD]

raigner, on 04 June 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

so you expect there art department to come to you and get the community to sign off on there work before it should be let into there game? no the logos look fantastic get over it and move on.

you guy would never be happy unless they used the logos from damn near 20 years ago with absolutely no alterations, but what about all the calnners that thought the old logos looked poorly done and lacking in detail. as much as i love my ghost bear trothkin, the ghost bear emblem looks like it was made in a high school art project, and the smoke jaguar looks more like a bear then a jaguar, as for jade falcon its a shapeless flat green bird that looks like it was done in ms paint. its been 20 years guys let this stuff evolve.

Ya because old stuff is much worse because its old. Lets just redo the Mona Lisa, make her blond and put pasties over her niples, cause you know Leonardo did it centuries ago and its to old school and therefor worse.

[Wolfways]

Leave it to PGI to completely miss the point...again.

[NextGame]

the logos are fine. I wish people would be more selective about what they ***** and moan about, I have a hard time taking the logo discussion seriously.

[GreyGriffin]

NextGame, on 04 June 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

the logos are fine. I wish people would be more selective about what they ***** and moan about, I have a hard time taking the logo discussion seriously.

The situation with the logos is symptomatic of the disconnect with the community. These are the patches we put on our shoulders to fly our colors. In a historical game, would you like it if the American Flag suddenly had a huge eagle on it, or the Canadian flag suddenly had a photorealistic maple leaf? The Clan emblems are powerful icons that have deep roots in Battletech and Mechwarrior alike.

With these new emblems, you can hardly tell the Ghost Bear is a bear, and it looks like someone just twisted it out of shape. The Jade Falcon emblem has not only trimmed down, but lost its recognizable profile and composition. Wolf's logo looks ripped straight off of the Kyuubi's face in Naruto, like a cartoon character. And the Smoke Jaguar suddenly got spraypainted in primary colors instead of being classy gray on black. They even reversed the contrast of the silhouette, instead of making the jaguar suggested negative space in the middle of the logo it's a huge black eyesore in the middle of a bunch of blue and red.

What's really galling is that the expectation was really simple. The Inner Sphere house logos are done in the sparse style of Battletech's national colors. Why wouldn't the Clan emblems go along with the same style as the others? It was so, so easy to do this right, which is why we are flabberghasted that they mucked it up and gave us these insane Advice Animal abortions.

I'll totally admit, I would take a bit of revision to the clan logos. In general, I really like what the art department puts out. Some cleaner lines would be fine, a little color balancing here and there. The Ghost Bear's strange blue nose and the Smoke Jaguar's and Jade Falcon's sort of shapeless blob treatment could definitely use a little definition. But the Clanz X-Treme '90s cartoon treatment is just way, way too far off-base.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

No compromises. Old logos back or this game can die in a fire as far as I'm concerned.

[Kyynele]

N0MAD, on 04 June 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

Ya because old stuff is much worse because its old. Lets just redo the Mona Lisa, make her blond and put pasties over her niples, cause you know Leonardo did it centuries ago and its to old school and therefor worse.

No, the old BT stuff is much worse because most of it was done by really, really bad artists.

If Mona Lisa would've been painted by whoever would've accepted to paint it for the least amount of money, it wouldn't be in the Louvre.

[Joseph Mallan]

raigner, on 04 June 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

so you expect there art department to come to you and get the community to sign off on there work before it should be let into there game? no the logos look fantastic get over it and move on.

you guy would never be happy unless they used the logos from damn near 20 years ago with absolutely no alterations, but what about all the calnners that thought the old logos looked poorly done and lacking in detail. as much as i love my ghost bear trothkin, the ghost bear emblem looks like it was made in a high school art project, and the smoke jaguar looks more like a bear then a jaguar, as for jade falcon its a shapeless flat green bird that looks like it was done in ms paint. its been 20 years guys let this stuff evolve.

So... What flag does your home fly and has it changed in the last 30 years???

[El Bandito]

Kyynele, on 05 June 2014 - 12:38 AM, said:

No, the old BT stuff is much worse because most of it was done by really, really bad artists. If Mona Lisa would've been painted by whoever would've accepted to paint it for the least amount of money, it wouldn't be in the Louvre.

Leonardo did it for free.

[Raigner]

GreyGriffin, on 04 June 2014 - 05:55 PM, said:

The old Clan logos looked like logos. They were developed as iconography, not as decorative art. They have strong lines and sparse details on purpose, because they express the spartan nature of the clans. The nature of the art evokes things like national flags, because they are, in essence, Clan nationalities.

The American flag doesn't have patterns of dark and light to make it look like it's waving. Because it's a flag.

Leave it to PGI to jump through hoops apparently with the express purpose of just making things worse.

No they did not have sparse details or strong lines on purpose that is you putting impressionism on a piece of artwork, they were designed that way because MS paint was the zenith of digital art programs in 1995. and FASA's old artists were not the best in the business, now stop putting these emblems on a pedestal.

Edited by raigner, 05 June 2014 - 06:15 AM.

[Bobzilla]

For those that don't care about the signifigance of the logo, the changes are fine. But if they don't care they wouldn't have cared about using the originals either.

So really they made a change that wouldn't have any appeal to anyone. Those who wanted the originals won't like it, and those that don't care, still won't care.

They wanted to make an impovement, which anyone with no nostalgia would look at the old versions and think they look like crap, can't blame them.

[kazlaton]

Just out of curiosity, can someone take the old and new logos together, crop them so they are the same size, and post them side by side so we can have a good comparison? I think it might help highlight the discussion.

[GreyGriffin]

The Great Houses, for Comparison.













Posted without comment.

Edited by GreyGriffin, 05 June 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[GreyGriffin]

I'm not going to argue that they are bad art. I actually like them as art, as interpretations of clan icons. But they are not icons. They are not the clan totems. As flags to wave and seals to paint on the side of my 'mech, they are not the symbols that represent the clans. they are snarling cartoon beasts suitable as high school mascots.

There is a reason that Disney uses Cinderella's castle as its logo. Even when they do use Mickey as a logo rather than a character, it's in silhouette. It's just a principle of design - logos aren't and shouldn't be characters. If they represent characters, they should do just that, represent them, not be them.

While yes, they could use some more and better linework and maybe a bit of modernization, the Clan Totems are not Looney Tunes characters. Much less Looney Tunes characters from that horrible 90's superhero show.

(Edit:) Notice in the post above that some of the Great Houses, particularly House Steiner and the Free Rasalhague Republic, actually went through a significant wave of streamlining to remove some of the cartoony aspects of their iconography. After doing such a great job with the Great Houses, why take the Clans off the other direction other than just to be different?

Edited by GreyGriffin, 05 June 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[kazlaton]

Thank you GreyGriffin, great work. I do believe you have hit the nail on the head with your comments.

[Elkfire]

I am sort of curious as to why PGI thought the Clan emblems needed to be reworked when they did minimal tweaking to the IS ones.

[N0MAD]

Elkfire, on 05 June 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

I am sort of curious as to why PGI thought the Clan emblems needed to be reworked when they did minimal tweaking to the IS ones.

Maybe a different artist?.
Consider this as a possible scenario (not fact)
Being that its a simple job, 4 small simple pictures, it was given to the most junior artist.
Now this guys has spent a couple of years at some college, and thinks he can paint a better Mona lisa.

[NextGame]

I for one cannot wait to take to the field against team Green Budgerigar if they "revert" the logos. My mech will probably overheat from laughing.

[Dago Red]

Wow that side by side really drives home how much worse the new ones look.

Though oddly enough I feel like the Rasalhague emblem was improved quite a bit by their redesign. Really overall non of the inner sphere ones are bad.

So how did they screw up the clans to this degree?