50 replies to this topic

[Alaric Hasek]

My mediums often have the same _effective_ loadout as a heavy or an assault at any one point of contact. That is, my Cicada 3M or a Blackjack might have two PPCs, two ERLLs or an AC 20 and some MLs. I can fire those and move behind cover (a friendly assault, hopefully), but what can that friendly assault fire at an enemy at any one time? Not more than my medium can. Sure, they might have more weapon systems and more heat sinks, but heat sinks don't let you fire more weapons at any one time - they just allow you to remove the heat weapons generate faster. So, my effective firepower is the same. The difference is that I can't stand there to face the return fire. So, when I die as a medium it's because I wasn't patient enough.

So, what is a medium good for? As mentioned: escort and fire support. Think of yourself as a mobile weapon platform attached to a heavy or assault and you're likely to do well.

[Foxwalker]

I too am an avid medium pilot. Love them. They have a bad rap for some reason, that is why in the percentages you see something like this.

22% light
11% medium
25% heavy
32% assualt

From all the positive responses here you would think the meduim numbers would be greater. Oh, well it just means we supprise people with 300-700 damage and 2-3 kills in matches.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Foxwalker, on 10 June 2014 - 03:22 PM, said:

From all the positive responses here you would think the meduim numbers would be greater.

As a fellow medium pilot - part of those numbers is people coming out of MW4 or MAssault where there is even less of a reason to drive anything but an Assault (which just occurred to me... maybe they meant it that way with MechAssault )

[Tim East]

Shar Wolf, on 10 June 2014 - 03:38 PM, said:

As a fellow medium pilot - part of those numbers is people coming out of MW4 or MAssault where there is even less of a reason to drive anything but an Assault (which just occurred to me... maybe they meant it that way with MechAssault )

The thing about MW4 is: Uziel. The stock is pretty good, and when you make it suit your tastes, it's even shinier. I used one of those with a fair degree of success for the Solaris open championship in Mercenaries.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Tim East, on 10 June 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

The thing about MW4 is: Uziel.

In multiplayer mode - everything the Uziel can do for firepower - a bigger, more heavily armored mech could do better.


Only reason people dropped in anything other than Assaults was either tonnage limits - or for the fun of it
(IE 2 people having an Elemental duel)

Tonnage limits apparently won't work with MWO (somewhere one of the Dev's explained why) so they went with 4x3 instead.

As for the "for fun" of it - outside of PuGs that is very nearly non-existent I am told.

[Pygar]

Jeb, on 06 June 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Ok what is the role of medium weight mechs in this game... I am not talking about their role in table top... or what their role should be... what role can they do better then heavy or light where it would make sense to drop in a medium instead of a heavy or light.

Medium mechs in MWO are "Hard Mode" for players with the 1337 skillz to show off....

Or, the more serious answer is Mediums in MWO don't have a true "role" currently, because it's still too easy to just take Heavies and Assaults instead- that being said, Mediums aren't worthless either...it just takes more effort to get them to do enough damage to keep up with bigger front line mechs.

If PGI could get the 3 rule or tonnage limits in place Mediums would be much more valuable, and PGI has also mentioned possibly making mechs have defined module slot types that they can or cannot have as a way to make all mechs have more defined roles in game. (or possibly even as another way of ninja-nerfing certain over-used mechs)

Edited by Pygar, 10 June 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Jeb, on 06 June 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Ok what is the role of medium weight mechs in this game... I am not talking about their role in table top... or what their role should be... what role can they do better then heavy or light where it would make sense to drop in a medium instead of a heavy or light.

Mediums are the most versatile mechs in the game, they are the jack of all trades master of none.

I will go through them one by one and give short blurbs about what each one excels at:

1- Cicada: The honorary light. This thing should be played like a locust, with a taller frame, and more guns and armor. It's great for scouting, and escort duties. A couple of variants can be made into great harasser/sniper builds as well. I't main asset is speed, so be sure to always move around.

2- Blackjack: These guys guys are built specifically for one purpose: As much forward facing firepower as possible. The BJ Chassis excels at fire support duties, such as sniping, and suppression. They can be very good up close, especially the somewhat hot BJ-1X, and the new Arrow hero. However, they are far better plinking people away with AC fire.

3- Centurion: Possibly the hardest mech to put down, and this game has the Atlas, and some clan mechs incoming. It's hit boxes aren't as legendary as they used to be, but it is still one of the toughest mechs out there. It's really good as a striker/flanker, and excels as an escort mech. Keep the big ones safe, until the brawl starts, and then just deck people left and right with your weaponry. Makes for a great zombie mech as well.

4- Hunchback: One of the most versatile mechs in the medium class, able to carry all manner of weapons, and known for it's distinct Achilles heel: the hunch. The mech is very nimble, and has one of the best torso twist ranges in the entire game. In fact, the mech can practically shoot directly behind it, while moving full throttle. Never under-estimate them, and they pack a big wallop with their hunch-mounted weapons. (except the hunch-less HBK-4SP)

5- Trebuchet: Built to last, these mechs are very nimble, come with JJs, and a nice array of Energy and missile hardpoint mounts. The 7K would be in competitive play if it had JJs. They are very good as escorts, and skirmishers. They also make for great, mobile LRM firing platforms. Relocating where needed very quickly.

6- Griffin: If you ever thought that being the pilot of a mech was dull, and wanted to pilot aerospace fighters, but still liked the aesthetic look of a mech, the Griffin is for you. This thing will probably spend more time in the air than on the ground when in a fight. They are very nimble, and very maneuverable. Expect them to wreak all manners of chaos in a brawl, and when they wolfpack someone, it is a sight to behold.

7-Kintaro: Mainly a quick, mobile missile platform. With the somewhat high number of missile hardpoints, you are encouraged to use SSRMs, for light hunter/escort duties, or SRMs, for brawler duties, or LRM5/10s for LRM support, and skirmisher set ups. The KTO-18 is viewed as one of the best variants, because of it's hardpoint count.

8-Shadowhawk: The Shadowhak is praised as the best medium mech (I disagree, but that's my personal taste). It can do everything the Hunchback can with JJs. Except for turning, or torso twisting. The mech has a great hardpoint layout, however it suffers from being very tall, and having a very slow torso turning speed, and range. The hunch is smaller, but everything is more likely to hit your CT honestly. They are a great jack of all trades mech. If you want them to be really good at a role, build specifically for that role. The 2H is one of my favorites, I used to run it with 3xAC2s for suppression, now it's LL+LBX+SRMs for brawling. The Jumpjets give you good maneuverability, and less worry about terrain. I prefer them in escort/brawler set ups, but it can do almost every role just as well as the other.

9- Wolverine: Works in a similar way to the Griffin, except I would say, with more insanity. The griffin is better at being an LRM support mech, and better in vertical combat, while the Wolverine is better in horizontal combat. The speed this thing packs is terrifying. The 6K can clock in at 120+ Kph with max engine, which will scare the hell out of any lights you are chasing, or any brawlers you flash by.

[Alaskan Nobody]

IraqiWalker, on 10 June 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

The griffin is better at being an LRM support mech, and better in vertical combat, while the Wolverine is better in horizontal combat.

I was under the distinct impression that the Griffin had more horizontal mobility (arm/torso swing) while the Wolverine had more vertical?

Did they change that when I wasn't looking?
Because I distinctly remember my Griffin running away while still shooting back, and my Wolverine not being able to do that.

[IraqiWalker]

Shar Wolf, on 10 June 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

I was under the distinct impression that the Griffin had more horizontal mobility (arm/torso swing) while the Wolverine had more vertical?

Did they change that when I wasn't looking?
Because I distinctly remember my Griffin running away while still shooting back, and my Wolverine not being able to do that.

My mistake, you are correct. I mixed those two up. Happens to me all the time with those two.

[Foxwalker]

IraqiWalker, on 10 June 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

2- Blackjack: These guys guys are built specifically for one purpose: As much forward facing firepower as possible. The BJ Chassis excels at fire support duties, such as sniping, and suppression. They can be very good up close, especially the somewhat hot BJ-1X, and the new Arrow hero. However, they are far better plinking people away with AC fire.

The BJ-1 is the most nimble AC20 Jump brawler in the game right now. It far outshines the Hunchback that was actually built around that weapon.

[Foxwalker]

IraqiWalker, on 10 June 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

5- Trebuchet: Built to last, these mechs are very nimble, come with JJs, and a nice array of Energy and missile hardpoint mounts. The 7K would be in competitive play if it had JJs. They are very good as escorts, and skirmishers. They also make for great, mobile LRM firing platforms. Relocating where needed very quickly.

I love my LG. My personal fav right now is a great light killer and escort. The 3C can be setup similar to lights and with a max engine of 390 can run with a light pack but have more armor.

I am not diagreeing with you, just adding my thoughts.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Foxwalker, on 10 June 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

I love my LG. My personal fav right now is a great light killer and escort. The 3C can be setup similar to lights and with a max engine of 390 can run with a light pack but have more armor.

I am not diagreeing with you, just adding my thoughts.

3C with 380 XL,2 streaks,4 med lasers and BAP is a good alternative to X-5,I like to keep mine non ammo dependant tho(1 LPL + 3 medium lasers). 135 kph medium with decent heat management and good armor is terrifying.

[Jon Gotham]

Pygar, on 10 June 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

Or, the more serious answer is Mediums in MWO don't have a true "role" currently, because it's still too easy to just take Heavies and Assaults instead- that being said, Mediums aren't worthless either...it just takes more effort to get them to do enough damage to keep up with bigger front line mechs.

This is the crux of it. some of the guys I run with, are frankly amazingly skilled medium pilots-they regularly put out some scary numbers but, whatever they can do in a medium they do it better in a heavy.
Mediums are too slow to dodge fire and too poorly armoured to take fire (assault mech alpha derpers 40+ pt etc) and usually can't carry enough firepower to drop something fast-unless you are a headshot king.
Their playstyle revolves around harassing/flanking/supporting the bigger mechs-a playstyle that falls over when those bigger mechs won't play their role properly.....
The balancing act on tonnage is also the main game with a medium, you want speed? then armour or firepower has to suffer. You want armour? then firepower and speed has to suffer etc....

I recently ran an Orion with 4 large pulse lasers that ran around at nearly 80kph. Fast enough to keep any medium in gun trail permanently.Vs an XL medium, I only need to hit it TWICE.
I think 3/3/3/3 will help mediums out very much, but until then it still is Assault/Heavy warrior online.

[Kmieciu]

This whole classification of Light\Medium\Heavy\Assault mechs based on tonnage is artificial and meaningless.
A Cicada is more similar to a Jenner than to a Kintaro, despite both being medium mechs. A Victor is more mobile (thanks to JJ) than an Orion, despite being an assault mech.

This is why this whole thread does not have one simple answer. A Cicada (ECM sniper) has a vastly different role than a Shadowhawk (a smaller CTF-3D).

Mechs like the Centurion and Hunchback might seem underpowered now, but that's all because of the current game balance. There was a time, when 3xSRM6+2xML Centurions and 2xSMR6 4xML Hunchbacks were top tier and used by all competitive teams.

The reason was simple: SRMs used to be better than ACs and MLs were better than PPCs. Since the introduction of HSR for projectiles and disabling the SRM splash damage the meta shifted to long range so naturally Heavies and Assaults dominate nowadays. They are able to carry multiple PPCs and ACs and have enough armor to withstand numerous hits.

Edited by Kmieciu, 11 June 2014 - 03:46 AM.

[Podex]

kamiko kross, on 11 June 2014 - 03:19 AM, said:

This is the crux of it. some of the guys I run with, are frankly amazingly skilled medium pilots-they regularly put out some scary numbers but, whatever they can do in a medium they do it better in a heavy.
Mediums are too slow to dodge fire and too poorly armoured to take fire (assault mech alpha derpers 40+ pt etc) and usually can't carry enough firepower to drop something fast-unless you are a headshot king.
Their playstyle revolves around harassing/flanking/supporting the bigger mechs-a playstyle that falls over when those bigger mechs won't play their role properly.....
The balancing act on tonnage is also the main game with a medium, you want speed? then armour or firepower has to suffer. You want armour? then firepower and speed has to suffer etc....

I generally can pull of 400-800 dmg per match in my little CDA, out flanking the enemy once they get tunnel vision on heavies and assaults. Run fast, punch hard, get the hell out of there.

[Voivode]

ShivaPT, on 08 June 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

I went through an awesome game with a team of at least 8 mediums, 1 assault, and a a trio of heavies.
All were very fast and mobile, and the heavies could keep up with the mediums.

The speed at which we could concentrate forces, focus fire and keep rotating targets on the front (meaning, someone got shot, he retreated around an obstacle and another would jump in) was insane.

The enemy was very good, but our excessive mobility meant we picked them off 2 or 3 at a team, an easily digestible amount.

I love my mediums and their great mobility.
OR I can load them up for a 66-70kph max speed and bring along more firepower.
You can have on that has a 90+kph speed with 2 large lasers and 6 med lasers, or an ultra AC5 and PPC....
or you can have a 66 kph one with dual AC5s and dual med lasers.
or a lmr30 missile boat harasser.
or a heavy support mech, with narc, tag, streaks, and a few other self defense weapons...
or an inconspicuous sniper with gauss+erppc ....

Mediums are the true jacks of all trades.

I've seen this happen quite a few times. Been on the team that did it and the team it happened to. Mediums have great mobility.

Was in a 12 man once where the enemy team had three jenners and rest were Centurions, all painted the same color, all going around 100KPH. They just kept running in a mass through our ranks. It made it difficult to focus fire since finding "Gamma" target or "Kilo" target required jumping through the ranks of available targets. Was quite an excellent tactic that delivered the other team the match despite our far superior weight and firepower. Our hats were off to them, though I forget what corps it was.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Kmieciu, on 11 June 2014 - 03:45 AM, said:

This whole classification of Light\Medium\Heavy\Assault mechs based on tonnage is artificial and meaningless.
A Cicada is more similar to a Jenner than to a Kintaro, despite both being medium mechs. A Victor is more mobile (thanks to JJ) than an Orion, despite being an assault mech.

This is why this whole thread does not have one simple answer. A Cicada (ECM sniper) has a vastly different role than a Shadowhawk (a smaller CTF-3D).

Mechs like the Centurion and Hunchback might seem underpowered now, but that's all because of the current game balance. There was a time, when 3xSRM6+2xML Centurions and 2xSMR6 4xML Hunchbacks were top tier and used by all competitive teams.

The reason was simple: SRMs used to be better than ACs and MLs were better than PPCs. Since the introduction of HSR for projectiles and disabling the SRM splash damage the meta shifted to long range so naturally Heavies and Assaults dominate nowadays. They are able to carry multiple PPCs and ACs and have enough armor to withstand numerous hits.

while i personally dont like playing Medium Mechs, I would like to chime in on this post- because I feel kmieciu has a very valid point. First off, I really like cicada's, and while it is classified as a Medium, it really is just a heavier light mech... at least, thats how I view it, when i see it on the battlefield. (BTW, I also dont like playing light mechs). A Victor to me really is just a bigger Heavy mech.

I really think the anamosity really comes from the Hard Point distribution on a lot of medium mechs, as well as the Hit-boxes of their mechs. I will first start with the Hunchback. The hunchbacks primary bulk of its load-out is located mostly in 1 side torso. Combine that with the large size of said torso, it makes it really easy for good players to destroy that torso, and effectivelly take that mech out of the game. Now lets look at the Laser Hunchback, it can mount a lot of energy hardpoints, but its really hard to manage heat if firing more then 6 of them on an alpha. Firestarters, (which can be much faster then the hunchback), and still pack a 6 MLAS payload while being much harder to kill. Not all mechs are created equal, there are some good ones, and some really bad ones. And that can even vary depending on varient as well.

Now lets look at the Shadow Hawk. I think this mech is very good, and even though I hate piloting mediums, I love piloting this mech. But thats because I pretend my shadow hawk is a jumping version of my Battlemaster. Its got very good mobility, good weapon load-out, and a high slung ballistic torso.

anyway, to sum this post up- since I probably didnt explain myself well. I just wanted to thumbs up Kmieciu's post, and to give some supporting firepower to the post.

on a side note, some people talk about mediums being light killers/assault escorts... it makes me sad that not many people run the dragon anymore. I love that mech... and yah, I view the dragon as a really big medium. (and yes its got a bad hit box, but its just so awsome looking!)

(also- when I say I dont like playing light or medium mechs, its not that I dont think they are good, its just I personally dont "enjoy" piloting them. I'm that guy who doesnt understand maps, and cant plan my destinations to far inadvance, nor do I adapt very well to changing scenarios).

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 11 June 2014 - 06:07 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Podex, on 11 June 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

I generally can pull of 400-800 dmg per match in my little CDA, out flanking the enemy once they get tunnel vision on heavies and assaults. Run fast, punch hard, get the hell out of there.

Then you must be an excellent pilot then. You must be very good indeed at not being noticed:)
My best mech is a CDA 3M with a kdr of 5,5 and a W/L of 4 to 1.

Usually I simply cannot do what you do, on my pug teams nearly all of my heavies and assaults simply will not move. Leaving me with a very difficult task.
Still don't change the fact that mediums die very swiftly indeed. You are nearly always better off taking either a well armed light or a fast heavy. That's coming from a guy whose favourite class is mediums.....

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Jeb, on 06 June 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Ok what is the role of medium weight mechs in this game... I am not talking about their role in table top... or what their role should be... what role can they do better then heavy or light where it would make sense to drop in a medium instead of a heavy or light.

This depends absolutely on the individual 'mech in question. The shape, weapons mount locations, hardpoints, jump jet capability (or lack thereof) and engine caps make them all different to a greater degree than any other weight class (although heavy 'mechs come closer to this variety than assaults or lights ever will).

The Cicada is a fat light 'mech, for scouting and harrassing without getting bogged down, while having higher durability than an actual light 'mech (and worse speed in exchange- not a drawback for those pilots who can't handle light 'mech top speeds). Customization can also make it an agile non-jumping sniper with large energy weapons.

The Blackjack is a slower light 'mech with a flat profile and a lot of high mounted weapons- good for crafting an expert hill-humper, super-light poptarter, or an agile sniper. The jump jet variants do all three of these things better. The 1DC is poorest of these with no jump jets in exchange for two more energy hardpoints, but it can sort of pull off 'Slow Cicada' tricks. The 1X is the fastjack, and makes a much better 'Slow Cicada', though. Big flangey side torsos (especially on the back) can make the BJ really durable when not XL engine'd, but most people like it with an XL just so they can have an inexpensive, super-light AC-20 caddy. The Arrow's many ballistic mounts make it a standout 'mech for finishing off something that's lost armor.

The Centurion is a good workhorse Medium- excepting the D they're acceptably swift and make up for the lack of jump maneuver by being really durable with standard engines- huge shoulders and side torsos make coring them difficult without practice, and their arms are amazing shields. The Cent D has a huge maximum engine rating (which can't actually be used without an XL engine), but that lets it hit light 'mech speeds in a way that only the Cicada surpasses without actually being Light. The Yen Lo Wang is kind of sad as Centurions go- the only advantage it has at all is the capacity to mount an AC/20- but that AC/20 is on the otherwise excellent for shielding arm. It's not unusable by any means (boomstick is still boomstick) but you need practice twisting to block/spread damage before you try to use this thing.

The Hunchback is a variety chassis. No two variants have similar enough hardpoints to define the 'mech as a whole, so if you want to try some of everything, this is your go-to in Mediums. As Medium 'mechs go, it's a bit on the slow side (especially since the variants that have hunches- the 4G, 4H, Grid Iron, and the 4J when it has missiles- have a really huge right torso that makes XL engines an essentially unacceptable risk), but it's compact and if you can learn to use the hunch with direct-fire weapons to shoot around things without exposing more than a little of your 'mech, then you've developed an awesome skill for use in other, more expensive chassis. The Hunchback can't do very many specialist builds, though- you can AC/20 with it, but every other serious specialization requires numbers and/or spreading of hard points that the Hunch just doesn't have.

The Trebuchet is kind of a sad billboard- it's got all the broad face of a Centurion with essentially none of the superior durability. One variant can be converted into a 'Trenchback' and mount an AC/20, but otherwise it's a sometimes-jumping mediocre missile-caddy medium (unless you use the energy hardpoints for heavy beam weapons- in which case there are better 'mechs for that too). It's not a bad 'mech, mind, it's just that everything it can do, someone else does better (someone does everything better than it). The Loup De Guerre is the only one of these that honestly has a strong missile loadout, as it has twice the missile hardpoints of the other Trebs (and all of those hardpoints are 20-tube, to boot).

The Griffin is one of the two places most people go for an LRM-caddy medium 'mech. With five tons more weight than the Trebuchet, no jumpless variants, and generally better missile hardpoints (plus no massive easy-to-shoot shoulders), the Griffin also has a fantastic maximum of 7 jump jets, making it a good missile-carrying Medium 'mech for those who just gotta fly far and high. It also does Streaks great because of this. Tends to be a bit lacking on backup weapons with its energy hardpoints, though (especially since usually all of those are in the right arm).

The Wolverine tends to be better than the Griffin at everything except raw number of missile tubes. Having an energy hardpoint in the head makes it 'zombie' capable, sometimes it spreads its missile racks between multiple locations, and one of the variants has a ballistic right arm instead of an energy right arm. The Griffin is better for missiles over lasers, the Wolverine tends to be better for lasers over missiles (or autocannon over missiles in the case of the 6R). It also has the fantastic 7 jump jet maximum. Frankly, there are few reasons to use a Griffin when you could have a Wolverine instead (not no reasons- but not very many reasons either.)

The Kintaro is for when you must have all the hardpoints and you must have them now. None of them do ballistics at all, but the raw number of hardpoints is fantastic. The 20 is kind of sad with its only three missile hardpoints- but the 19 and 18 have four and a fantastic five hardpoints to their names. With the spread of locations and smallish side torsos, these are excellent high-speed Streak SRM caddies for murdering the crap out of lights. Any light worth their salt will likely flee from an unidentified Kintaro immediately because the chance of getting Streaked to death is far too high. Once they know the KTO hasn't got streaks, though, it becomes fair game. The KTO can also do the LRM caddy thing pretty well, competing with the 4-missile-hardpoint Griffin, Wolverine and Shadow Hawk- although it lacks jump jets, the 18 can run more LRMs than them.

Speaking of the Shadow Hawk. This is your 'mech for peeking over things and for mounting a little bit of everything. The Shadow Hawk is a true generalist in a way the Hunchback really just isn't- nearly all the Shads can mount all three weapon types effectively (although the K forefeits its ballistic hardpoints). The exact degree varies, but with jump jets, high weapons mounts, and a tall, thin build, the Shadowhawk can poptart, missile caddy, ballistic or energy snipe, and so on and so on. If you want an AC/20 that jumps, this is a better choice than the Trenchback- the cannon is mounted higher and the 'mech itself is thinner. It has its issues, mind- it's very tall so it can't hide behind things too well, it often needs an expensive XL engine to make use of its full hard point array, and people will tend to target it before other mediums precisely because of the things pilots can do with it- but these can all be worked around relatively easily.


That's what Mediums' role is.

-QKD-CR0

Edited by Quickdraw Crobat, 11 June 2014 - 06:15 AM.

[Podex]

kamiko kross, on 11 June 2014 - 06:03 AM, said:

Then you must be an excellent pilot then. You must be very good indeed at not being noticed:)
My best mech is a CDA 3M with a kdr of 5,5 and a W/L of 4 to 1.

Usually I simply cannot do what you do, on my pug teams nearly all of my heavies and assaults simply will not move. Leaving me with a very difficult task.
Still don't change the fact that mediums die very swiftly indeed. You are nearly always better off taking either a well armed light or a fast heavy. That's coming from a guy whose favourite class is mediums.....

I'd like to chalk a lot of it up to luck. I'll typically spend the first minute or two popping them from a very long range. Once I see a large group, I'll move in closer, supporting the main line. If they clump, I'll dart in and out repeatedly to distract and hopefully pull some heavy hitters away from our main force, allowing the good guys to chow down on the delicious back strap.

It USUALLY works very well, as long as people stay together and spot targets so I can see location and direction. If they don't, I end up playing a very short game because I land face to face with an atlas or something. My success relies heavily on the team. Give it a shot, though. I run a very simple layout.

But let me reinforce -- I cannot go toe to toe with anyone. This layout will not allow for it. It is fires too slowly and runs too hot. Hit. Maneuver. Repeat. Be the ninja, not the samurai.