49 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

I have been tracking this now for the last week, and lights and mediums are consistently on the lower end of the scale. It just amazes me how this game has deteriorated into a PPC/Ballistic game

[Biaxialrain]

I have absolutely no desire to pilot a light or medium.

I have nothing against them, I'm just not interested.

Why would I?

I like heavies and assaults and that's why I choose them. If I want fast, twitch, run and gun I'd play Hawken.

[Darian DelFord]

And that's the issue, this game has continuously pushed players towards heavies and assaults.

[Dymlos2003]

People are afraid of piloting mediums O_O

[jaxjace]

Im gonna go ahead and say that lights and mediums take more skill, thats not to say assaults and heavies dont take skill but its a different kind of skill. Different challenges for different classes, assault classes will be mown down by multiple lights or mediums unless they are exceptional, yall have it wrong if you think the little guys are the meat shields, its the opposite.

Every mech has its place but no mech was made to fight the enemy alone, the assaults attract the fire while everyone else focus's fire and supports.

[FupDup]

Well, let's see.

1. We have derptastically designed maps. Most of them are the size of a shoebox, which makes it very easy to find the enemy (aka no scouting needed) and it's hard to hide (aka go for frontal assault). Also, the movement code restricts mechs into very specific and predictable funnels for advancing, which means it's even easier to know where fights will happen.

2. Our rewards system is designed to make you have to farm assists, kills, and/or damage in order to make a living. Enough said.

3. Our XP trees basically only give you more mobility. This means that mechs which are not supposed to be mobile end up getting boosted by it just as much as mediums and lights.

4. Objectives are currently pointless most of the time. The most common strategy by far is to simply steamroll the enemy team and mop up any survivors the main blob is dead.

[Durandal]

Sephlock, on 06 June 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Please tell me you always run UAV. The game needs more people like you.

Don't know about him, but I know my lights run UAV every time Like someone else mentioned, I tend to pilot lights almost exclusively...Firestarter, Spider, Jenner, and Cicada are my four best mechs, hands down. I have a smattering of other chassis (Shadowhawk, Centurion, Cataphract), but I'm nowhere near as capable in those as I am in a light. That said, I can understand why people like heavy/assault mechs so much: they have power. Fire off any weapon group and you can feel the kick from it, an alpha from those mechs is often brutal, whereas my best light mechs cap out around a 30 point alpha that generates ghost heat (6 MLas on a Jenner). Basically, I live in a support role on my lights, whereas most people want to be the super DPS role, putting out as much hate as possible.

I love those people, because a lot of them aren't really all that good at covering their backside.

That said, it takes a lot of grit to pilot a light, especially with the status of the meta right now. You have to have balls of steel and play with utter abandon to do well, and it's such a twitchy playstyle that a lot of people just don't do well at keeping up with it.

[CaptainDeez]

Darian DelFord, on 06 June 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

You will have to forgive me I am a founder who was told Role Warfare will be a thing. Now that the % counter is in and the times that I play which are sporadic, early, afternoon, morning late, night weekends all the time. I consistently see the assaults and heavies as the most played chasis leaving the lights and mediums down.

My personal answer to that is because damage is so key to advancing C-Bills and XP. Cursious as to what PGI thinks of this and more importantly what they will do about it.

There are plenty of ways to earn c-bills, exp without doing high damage. You can earn alot of c-bills and exp through kill assists, component destruction, savior kills, and spotting/narc bonuses. In other words, if you focus on helping your team, it can pay off. If all you worry about is trying to make kills then yeah, loadup you assault and smash away.

Examples:

Firestarter


Spider
d

[Durandal]

I'll echo that getting CBills on a light mech can be easy...for instance, here's one on my Ember...



And another on my Jenner:



Now, granted, those were each in games where I got a lot of combat, but my lights outperform my heavier mechs almost every time. Don't count those little buggers out!

[AssaultPig]

I actually went and found the twitter post about this, since I wanted to be sure I didn't imagine it: https://twitter.com/...002949904953344

lights are at the top of the heap, at least according to aggregate stats as of march. Those numbers aren't super useful, but unless you assume premium time players are driving more lights than non-premiums it doesn't matter for purposes of this discussion.

It's easy to understand the reason for this when you think about it: the biggest line items in the match rewards are almost always assists and savior assists. Kills contribute bills also, but if you were hypothetically trying to maximize revenue you'd try for 12 savior assists every game. Lights make up in assist potential what they don't do in damage.

[-Natural Selection-]

Why do allot of people play assault? A number of reasons.

1. They assume bigger is better.

2. They assume because they cost more they are better.

3. Because of lack of regional servers some have performance issues in fast mechs. (so I have been told)

4. Because of sub-par computers, fast mechs cause performance issues for some. (so I have been told)

5. And last but not least, the cool guys like to jump up and down going "pew pew pew".

Edited by Dozier, 08 June 2014 - 02:05 AM.

[Rex Budman]

I play Heavy (Only Catapault) and Lights (Spidey and Firestarter).

My lights make more money than my heavy. They can put out more damage than an atlas by far.

You are probably thinking, "What? Noi way that's bullcrap lets have a pissing contest"... Well, if we were both standing there together pushing out damage, yeah the atlas might win. In a real battle, hmmm, perhaps not (damage stats).

Why? Well, its not ALL about the biggest weapons. You have to ask yourself;

Can I get to a fight quick enough? Can I get in and out of sight quick enough? Can I fire off a lot of small lasers and remain within my heat threshold? Can I survive long enough to be able to push out more damage?

These are all real world (well, in game situational) questions. This is why the Atlas, for instance, serves better as a battering ram and a firestarter with 6 med lasers is better at slice and dice.

And hey, my poptart Jester with 4 ppc's doesn't usually hit the top of the damage tree. Poptarts are well over rated, lol. I laugh when I see threads about them.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Heavies and assaults have a much more easy going playstyle compared to lights and mediums and most people get more satisfaction from big firepower. This is the true reason of this inbalance.

In practice a skilled pilot can carry very well in mediums and lights.

P.S. This same trend can be seen in similar games. In WoT for instance the most played class are heavy tanks and tank destoyers with big guns, even though mediums have more carry potential in higher tiers.

Even if the meta shifted so meds and lights were most powerful, the heavier classes would still be the most played in PUG matches.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 08 June 2014 - 02:27 AM.

[Rex Budman]

Marmon Rzohr, on 08 June 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

Heavies and assaults have a much more easy going playstyle compared to lights and mediums and most people get more satisfaction from big firepower. This is the true reason of this inbalance.

In practice a skilled pilot can carry very well in mediums and lights.

P.S. This same trend can be seen in similar games. In WoT for instance the most played class are heavy tanks and tank destoyers with big guns, even though mediums have more carry potential in higher tiers.

Even if the meta shifted so meds and lights were most powerful, the heavier classes would still be the most played in PUG matches.

There's some truth to this. I personally feel no satisfaction in driving a lumbering slow mammoth for the sake of a few extra points of damage. Heck, give me a slice and dice 6x med laser FS9-K. Way more fun.

[stjobe]

AssaultPig, on 08 June 2014 - 01:33 AM, said:

I actually went and found the twitter post about this, since I wanted to be sure I didn't imagine it: https://twitter.com/...002949904953344

Thank you for that, quite interesting numbers.

I've always done rather well for myself in my lights, but it's a major on/off thing; either I get a healthy CB/XP total (mainly by making sure I get enough assists) or I die with nothing much to show for it - there's really not much of a middle ground where I do so-so.

I'm also quite a terrible heavy/assault pilot, so perhaps my belief that those earned more than lights was because I know I'm bad at those but still earn comparable to what I do in my lights. Perhaps it's just easier to earn well in a heavy/assault? Or perhaps there's more room for the so-so matches, and they make up the difference?

Either way, thanks for putting some numbers on things and showing me that my preconceptions at least in part were wrong.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Never owned assaults because they were EZ-Mode, and the only time I'd jump in one of my two heavies was because they never got played and I needed a different elo bracket to escape the same boring matches where everyone squares off regimental style and lobs blue musket balls till everyone dies of boredom.

Light and medium pilots play for the challenge and ability to display genuine skill amongst a sea of metawhores. It's that simple.

[Mordin Ashe]

Koniving, on 06 June 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

-tons of stuff about armor-

Hire this guy! This would actually make me purchase and level up new Mechs and play some older ones I didn't even think about taking out of garage ever again.

[Bront]

Dozier, on 08 June 2014 - 02:03 AM, said:

4. Because of sub-par computers, fast mechs cause performance issues for some. (so I have been told)

I can actually attest to this one.

My PC performance (on low) will drop to ~20-25 FPS (sometimes lower, and sadly, down 5-10 FPS from when I started 9 months ago due to patch issues) when I'm in the heat of the battle with a mech. I still pilot lights, and do so quite effectively, but it can be difficult at times, particularly when I do hit an FPS Speed bump. Beyond that, low settings make the mechs harder to see. I helped a friend build his PC and tested MWO out on it (never saw the FPS on that drop below 80 on very high), and it was amazing how much easier it was to play a light. Specifically, I could focus fire on individual mech parts better, because they were actually where I was aiming and easy enough to make out.components.

Part of the problem I have with the game state in general, is many players are afraid of getting their mechs dirty. So, those brawling mediums that help pile on the damage while the assaults and heavies draw fire? They're toast once they draw fire. Want to play a harrassing light? It helps when there's a sustained fight and not the long range fire fest that often happens. Some of it is everyone wanting to be a glorified sniper, so you can get mechs designed for that on your team and no brawlers, but it's also people being afraid to take damage at all, and the "Very dangerous, you go first" attitude many players have.

I have a great W/L record on my Atlas even though it's K/D and damage numbers aren't that great. Why? Because I know how to soak damage and lead charges in it. I take a ton of damage, and eventually die, but dish out to seriously punish a few mechs, and meanwhile my teammates remain relitively untouched and take out enough mechs to turn the game into a roll. Under 2 kills and under 300 damage, but clearly a tide turning mech.

Sadly, there's no rewards for that either besides winning.

[Reitrix]

FupDup, on 06 June 2014 - 07:10 PM, said:

4. Objectives are currently pointless most of the time. The most common strategy by far is to simply steamroll the enemy team and mop up any survivors the main blob is dead.

heh. Got an Assault match on Alpine earlier, enemy camped the high ground above the north base, so i suggested we hit their base to force them out.
It worked. They had to stream down the hill directly in front of us, then funnel into the laughable cover the buildings provide, generating a 6 - 0 score.
But despite yelling at the 4 'mechs standing on the base to get out when it was at 2/3rds capped, we ended up winning early by cap. Rewards were lower than if we had simply stomped the rest of the team.
Thats what needs changing.
Capping that base should be the goal of the Assault match. Not just something you do when a Light shuts down in a corner.

IMO we should just change the Win Condition so that even if all 12 'mechs are dead, you STILL have to take out the Base. Meaning, if you just deathblob, win the knifefight with a handful of beatup wrecks you still have to fight your way past 5 turrets are get at the base itself.
Ammo dependent 'Mechs would be required to bring backup weapons, or expend more tonnage on Ammo, since you would need enough extra ammo to deal out an additional 1k+ damage to drop all the turrets if you happen to be the last man standing.

Wishful thinking, i guess.

[Creovex]

Unsure if I agree. I average the same from light to heavy with a little more (around 200) in assault however I think most newer players run towards the biggest and baddest as they see the most xp and cbills.... however they are dead weight most the times.