49 replies to this topic

[Arkus Bethla]

I stopped playing mediums after the Last LRM speed buff. I tried again after they speed-nerfed that an insignificant amount but didn't find any difference. I was never great at lights but I ran a few; some people that used to run lights a lot, and very well, have moved on to other chassis. Lights are about right when it comes to LRMs now - in that they get hit without them having to be at a dead stop. I suspect that their smaller profile - relative to mediums - keeps them somewhat viable.

For some reason one and a half volleys of a single mech killing mine or making it battlefield ineffective got a little old a little fast. I agree that the LRMs were not sufficient before but they could have just slowed down all the other weapons a bit or done pretty much anything else.

I actually don't find the assaults very assault-y anymore either. If you leave a charge on a hard point you will never see the battle. Too slow to close on the massive LRM barrage and pop-tarts, too slow to can't take cover. It is truly ugly sometimes. Arty makes everything yellow, Pop tarts strip a sections armor, next lrm wave kills you. You don't even get a chance at a single shot. Seen an atlas center-cored in well under 15 seconds by UAC5 Cataphact / jaggermechs while waiting for lasers to recycle.

I found heavies have become my big moneymaker. Fully armoured, as fast as possible. The way heat sinks work, I often carry as much effective weaponry as an assault and the extra mobility is way more important than useless armour. I think mediums are too physically large to allow their slight mobility advantages to manifest. I don't find them any harder to hit than a heavy which is the problem.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think it's pretty simple:

Heavy/Assualt Mechs can survive an encounter with another Heavy/Assault, whereas the Lights and Mediums have to run away. Lots of people like to play stompy robot games where you can wade into combat and fight, but Mediums and Lights are designed to do the exact opposite - they are mice and the Heavies/Assaults are cats.

Not too many people like to play MechRunner; many more prefer to play MechWarrior.

[Reitrix]

Prosperity Park, on 08 June 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

I think it's pretty simple:

Heavy/Assualt Mechs can survive an encounter with another Heavy/Assault, whereas the Lights and Mediums have to run away. Lots of people like to play stompy robot games where you can wade into combat and fight, but Mediums and Lights are designed to do the exact opposite - they are mice and the Heavies/Assaults are cats.

Not too many people like to play MechRunner; many more prefer to play MechWarrior.

Actually, the problem here is that all of our maps are wide open shooting galleries. We need a dense urban environment, with lots of attack avenues if we ever want to see Mediums shine.

[HBizzle]

Darian DelFord, on 06 June 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

My personal answer to that is because damage is so key to advancing C-Bills and XP. Cursious as to what PGI thinks of this and more importantly what they will do about it.

This right here. PGI has created an economic incentive to roll assaults and heavies. Easiest explanation. If I need to go cbill farming I play my Dragon Slayer or Ilya.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Have you considered that mediums and lights are not in a good place because their builds are difficult to use?

Some people do like hit and fade style tactics, but most of the weapons light and medium mechs have to use rely on dealing sustained damage over time. Having to deal sustained damage means you need to actually stay in the fight without being killed.If you're not particularly fast, then odds are you won't have the armor to last in a stand-up fight.

More to the point, if you're not fast, there's nothing you can do that a heavy mech can't do better. There's no incentive NOT to use a bigger mech if your tactics don't rely on speed. Even if they do, Quickdraws and Dragons can carry the same payload and keep pace fairly well, with hitboxes that favor using XL engines. So your tactics need to rely on being faster than bigger mechs can physically go.

Point for lights, but what about mediums? What about the mediums we have? The most practical builds rely on lasers and SRMs. Big ballistics and LRMs are too heavy for them to use without giving up speed and falling back into the trap. So what happens to a build that's heavy on lasers in an environment where DHS aren't very effective? Reliance on high-heat sustained damage weapons and an inability to keep firing continuously.

It just doesn't work very well. Mediums, particularly slow brawler mediums, were popular in lore and TT because they're cheap compared to heavies and assaults, but in this game cost doesn't matter beyond initial purchase. There's no point to run a smaller mech for the sake of nonexistent economics. So not very many do.

[wolf74]

I have been taking Random Data Grab from the Play Now Button on weight Classes being Played.
Right now I have 45 data points.

Data Point has the Following info
Date / Time (EST) / Light % / Medium % / Heavy % / Assault %

Brake down as of this time is
Class, Average %, Highest % , Lowest %
Lights, 18.04%, 28%, 8%
Mediums, 23.00%, 34%, 13%
Heaves, 30.09%, 47%,18%
Assaults, 28.87%, 48%, 4% (yes 4%)

[Aresye]

AssaultPig, on 06 June 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nobody wants to feel like they're outgunned in a shooter; since tonnage matching is super unrestrictive atm (i.e. a hunchback might get matched against a cataphract or a victor), people choose to drive the heavier mechs so that they won't be on the receiving end.

This pretty much hit the nail on the head, although with a few exceptions I've found the tonnage matching to be pretty consistent.

The problem is skill mismatches between the weight classes brought.

For example, why would I take a meta Victor the majority of the time? Because I'm stuck in the Elo bracket that frequently likes to pit me against LORDS and/or SJR. The tonnage matching usually works, so if I bring a laser catapult instead, chances are there will be an assault that would have taken my Victor's place, however the chances of that assault being a relatively newer player in a build unsuitable to fight the meta is very high. In my laser catapult I'm not in an optimal build to fight the meta either, so against a team full of meta poptarts we're already essentially 2 down.

I really, really don't like piloting assaults (especially meta builds), but ever since the last faction challenge and 12-man tournament sales, the meta is so prevalent that the chances of me having an advantage over the enemy team is very low, whereas the chances that I'll be out-meta'd if I don't take one is extremely high.

[Biaxialrain]

I can tell you with certainty that when the number of lights is low the quality of the match/game is better.

I see with some regularity 4-5 lights in a pack taking down assaults, heavies and mediums in matches where there are too many lights. This is in no way enjoyable whether they're on my team or the enemy team.

When teams have only one or two lights the matches are usually very high quality, equally matched and very enjoyable.

Edited by Biaxialrain, 08 June 2014 - 05:36 PM.

[AssaultPig]

Biaxialrain, on 08 June 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

I can tell you with certainty that when the number of lights is low the quality of the match/game is better.

I see with some regularity 4-5 lights in a pack taking down assaults, heavies and mediums in matches where there are too many lights. This is in no way enjoyable whether they're on my team or the enemy team.

When teams have only one or two lights the matches are usually very high quality, equally matched and very enjoyable.

lol

I suppose an assault should expect to win when it goes 1v4 against lights?

[Belorion]

Biaxialrain, on 08 June 2014 - 05:35 PM, said:

I can tell you with certainty that when the number of lights is low the quality of the match/game is better.

I see with some regularity 4-5 lights in a pack taking down assaults, heavies and mediums in matches where there are too many lights. This is in no way enjoyable whether they're on my team or the enemy team.

When teams have only one or two lights the matches are usually very high quality, equally matched and very enjoyable.

I for one wolfpack assaults every chance I get