299 replies to this topic

[Zerberus]

Wolfways, on 07 June 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

It is. I dont use AMS or ECM and i'm rarely bothered by LRM's, and i'm nowhere near high ELO...probably around mid.

And I agree to a degree... but we`re also not the ones whining about LRMs killing us as soon as we do anything but log out

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

Personally Id like to see the following changes to LRMs:

....
What that does is prevent ECM from completely shutting down LRMs, but it also makes it so chain-fired LRM5s fire much slower, and cant stunlock mechs anymore.

ROFL?

They don`t stunlock mechs now, and never have.

They just make incompetent pilots stand still while they soil themselves and whine for nerfs and a new diaper.

Edited by Zerberus, 07 June 2014 - 05:28 AM.

[Khobai]

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They don`t stunlock mechs now, and never have.

Wrong. An A1, Kintaro, or Stalker chain-firing 5-6 LRM5s can easily keep mechs shaking around so much they cant aim at all, even with the shake reduction module.

Plus LRM5s have a crazy tight spread, compared to LRM15s/20s, and nearly always hit the torso sections of enemy mechs. Boated LRM5s are demonstrably more lethal than any other combination of LRMs for that reason.

The cooldown of LRMs needs to be increased (damage increased too) and the impulse needs to be decreased. In addition ECM also needs to be nerfed so it no longer hard counters LRMs. To that end, AOE bubble stealth needs to be removed (ECM should only give stealth to the mech its equipped on). Those changes would help make LRMs more universally viable without them being overpowered.

Edited by Khobai, 07 June 2014 - 05:37 AM.

[Zerberus]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Wrong. An A1, Kintaro, or Stalker chain-firing 5-6 LRM5s can easily keep mechs shaking around so much they cant aim at all, even with the shake reduction module.

Plus LRM5s have a crazy tight spread, compared to LRM15s/20s, and nearly always hit the torso sections of enemy mechs. Boated LRM5s are demonstrably more lethal than any other combination of LRMs for that reason.

The cooldown of LRM5 needs to be increased (damage increased too) and the impulse needs to be decreased. In exchange ECM also needs to be nerfed so it no longer hard counters LRMs. To that end, AOE bubble stealth needs to be removed (ECM should only give stealth to the mech its equipped on).

We apparently have a very diffrernet definition of "Stunlock".....

I both drive and have been on the receiving end of trollpults and the lesser kintaros and lrm5 stalkers who knows how many times since CB, and I have absolutely no problem getting out of it or returning fire....then, now, or for the forseeable future.

For me (and as far as I can tell the online gaming community as a whole) a stunlock is not "OMG!!! I`M GOING TO DIEE !!!" *panics**stops trying**dies*

A Stunlock is something like when you get sapped over and over again by rogues in a WoW BG, meaning that you can very literally do absolutely NOTHING.. not move, not act, just watch.

There are absolutely zero stunlocks in MWO since knockdowns were removed, and in fact keeping them OUT of MWO is the entire reason you can only heat your enemy up to 90% with flamers.

Edited by Zerberus, 07 June 2014 - 05:43 AM.

[El Bandito]

Zerberus, on 07 June 2014 - 05:41 AM, said:

A Stunlock is something like when you get sapped over and over again by rogues in a WoW BG, meaning that you can very literally do absolutely NOTHING.. not move, not act, just watch. There are absolutely zero stunlocks in MWO since knockdowns were removed, and in fact keeping them OUT of MWO is the entire reason you can only heat your enemy up to 90% with flamers.

Yep, we need new definition for chain fired LRM5s. Shakelock perhaps.

Whenever I get chainfired by LRM, I simply stay calm, look for the nearest cover (I am never far from cover), and take the shortest route there. Chain fired LRMs usually deals much less damage than FLD alphas when I am caught like that so there is no reason to panic, really.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 June 2014 - 05:47 AM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

cant wait to see his rage in 10 days when SRMs get 6packed into his face repeatedly.

[EvilCow]

LRMs should be buffed by a consistent amount *but* indirect fire must go except for TAG and NARC,

Then introduce passive radar.

[crossflip]

Not nerf, not buff, fix.

[Khobai]

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Stunlock is something like when you get sapped over and over again by rogues in a WoW BG,

Same basic thing. When you're get hitting with LRM5s over and over it reduces your combat effectiveness almost to 0%. If you wanna call it "shakelock" or something like that, thats fine, but its semantics.

At the core, its a game mechanic that continually impairs an enemy to the point where they cant do anything in return.

Quote

cant wait to see his rage in 10 days when SRMs get 6packed into his face repeatedly.

SRMs have 1/3rd the impulse that LRMs do. SRMs barely shake you so its a non-issue. SRMs also have 1/3rd the range of to LRMs so theyre very easy to avoid. While avoiding LRMs tends to be more map specific and based on random factors like how much ECM/AMS your team has.

But im sure everyone remembers when streaks had high impulse and chain-firing streaks had much the same effect of chain-firing LRM5s. You could literally keep someone "shakelocked" with streaks. That was back when the Raven-3L was considered one of the best mechs in the game.

Edited by Khobai, 07 June 2014 - 05:56 AM.

[Zerberus]

El Bandito, on 07 June 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

Yep, we need new definition for chain fired LRM5s. Shakelock perhaps.

"Paniclock"

Simply because it only happens when people take any sort of fire in intervals <1 second and star to panic. And it is completely ineffective against decent pilots or at least truly good ones

When I open up with my 2uac5/2ac2 banshee, LRM5 trollpult, 4AC2 Jäger... yeah, that is exactly the type of enemy I`m hoping to be shooting at, an unseasoned pilot that completely overrreacts to the wee bit of cockpit shake and thereby becomes an easy meal.

Because anyone else will rip me a new one before I know what the hell happened

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

Same basic thing. When you're get hitting with LRM5s over and over it reduces your combat effectiveness almost to 0%. If you wanna call it "shakelock" or something like that, thats fine, but its semantics.

At the core, its a game mechanic that continually impairs an enemy to the point where they cant do anything in return.



SRMs have 1/3rd the impulse that LRMs do. SRMs barely shake you so its a non-issue. SRMs also have 1/3rd the range of to LRMs so theyre very easy to avoid.

But im sure everyone remembers when streaks had high impulse and chain-firing streaks had much the same effect of chain-firing LRM5s. You could literally keep someone "shakelocked" with streaks. That was back when the Raven-3L was considered one of the best mechs in the game.

And NO, Khobai, it`s NOT the same thing. You seem to continue to assume that I`ve never been on the recieving end of high ROF weapons, much less survive the encounters on a regular basis.. There is a very large and real difference between soimething /someone else actually incapacitating you and your own mind overreacting to a fly on the wall and thereby incapacitating yourself. If I can just turn around and walk out of it, so can everybody else. Period.

The shake is laughable, and top there`s noi reason in the world to have to endure it for mor than 2-3 seconds.. unless you immediately think "OH NO!! MY COCKPIT IS SHAKING!! I`M ALREADY DEAD!!!!!" and stop moving.

If LRMs and their screen shake are as strong as you portray, why does nobody use them at higher levels of play? It would seem to be a no brainer to "stunlock" an opponent and then close in with fast strikers.... Yet that happens, well, never...

BTW: if LRM5s are already a "stunlock" due to their impact frequency and shake, then what is your opinion of more than 1 AC2 on any mech? becasue 2 AC2alternated is almost the same DPS, pinpoint, more shake, twice as often, and it scales in DPS and shake frequency with the amount of AC2s.

All the way up to (using 4 becasue 6 is asinine) shake every 1/8 second, and twice the DPS of the LRM5s, with pinpoint accuracy....

I would think that a much more worthy crusade than a weapon that the majority of the community seems to feel is just barely viable now and could still use a few buffs....

Edited by Zerberus, 07 June 2014 - 06:02 AM.

[Kilo 40]

El Bandito, on 07 June 2014 - 05:44 AM, said:

Whenever I get chainfired by LRM, I simply stay calm, look for the nearest cover (I am never far from cover), and take the shortest route there.

exactly. The bolded part especially.

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Wrong. An A1, Kintaro, or Stalker chain-firing 5-6 LRM5s can easily keep mechs shaking around so much they cant aim at all, even with the shake reduction module.

that's your problem. in that situation you shouldn't be thinking of aiming at all. you should be 100% about breaking LOS.

[Screech]

They fit well in the assault-meta. Hope someone enjoys it.

[Kilo 40]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

if you pummel any good pilot with lrm5s theyre just as screwed as a bad pilot.

a good pilot will be with his friends and under multiple AMS coverage, forcing the LRMer to fire his LRM5s all at once to get through the AMS coverage, something he can't do while stream firing them.

[Khobai]

Quote

that's your problem. in that situation you shouldn't be thinking of aiming at all. you should be 100% about breaking LOS.

good luck if youre narcd. narc is basically a death sentence now unless you have ECM. and if you dont youre dead.

[Kilo 40]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

good luck if youre narcd. narc is basically a death sentence now unless you have ECM. and if you dont youre dead.

narc doesn't counter cover. always stay near cover.

you should always be near a corner you can go around, no matter what weapon you're talking about.

[Zerberus]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

if you pummel any good pilot with lrm5s theyre just as screwed as a bad pilot.

Then I must be neither good nor bad, because I don`t have problems with them.

Quote

have you won any official tournaments using lrms? because I have.

All that tells me, no disrespect intended, is that there were some really crappy players in that tournament.

That reminds of the first round of the factions solo tournament (the one where almost nobody signed up becasue it wasn`t posted "on time"), where I broke the top ten in 3 factions w /3 accounts, 2 of them with LRMs (A Trebuchet and an Awesome, to be exact), and completely destroyed LRM boats all day for a faction 2nd with my main account... with a Gauss, 2ll, 2srm6 Heavy metalm the "worst weapons" in the game on a "heavily nerfed chassis".

That said, all accounts were all easily in teh top 50 of the their respective factions in the last "revenge" tournament, one of them with only 9 games played, none with more than 15. That`s because I prefer to play a team game in a team setting instead of comparing a pixelpeen that means nothing to others even less meaningful pixelpeens. But a hulagirl is a motivator.

I hope you now understand how arbitrary and pointless that statement from you was, becvause it means absolutely nothing without context.

If you want to compare skills as if it actually meant something in this discussion, I have a premium account and understand private matchmaking. I await your batchall.

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AC2s, like SRMs, are a non-issue. AC2s have 0.038 impulse. LRMs have .11 impulse. LRMs shake you 3 times more than AC2s. Other weapons are not capable of the same thing.

Again im sure people remember when AC2s and AC5s had high impulse and PGI nerfed their impulse because of the exact situation ive described with LRMs.

I remember it, and my opinion if it was the same as it is here (And I don`T mean this personally, just as a general statement to, well, 90% or more of all the "Nerf this, Nerf that, hit everyone but me with a Nerfbat" threads): grow some stones and stop whining, nobody is forcing you to stand still and take it. Adapt or perish.

Edited by Zerberus, 07 June 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[Khobai]

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you should always be near a corner you can go around, no matter what weapon you're talking about.

Like I said earlier, LRMs are very map specific. certain maps like caustic or alpine dont offer much cover from weapons like lrms. LRMs are also subject to randomness like how much ECM/AMS is on the other team. These are the reasons LRMs arnt more competitive weapons. However LRMs in specific situations are overpowered. One of those situations is when you have a hard lock with an LRM5 boat, and the enemy has no place to take cover, because its a map like caustic or alpine.

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All that tells me, no disrespect intended, is that there were some really crappy players in that tournament.

Theres really crappy players in EVERY tournament. But to win you still have to beat some of the good ones.

Quote

That said, all accounts were all easily in teh top 50 of the their respective factions in the last tournament, one with only 9 games played.

but you didnt win 1st place. anyone who plays a lot can get in the top 50 lol. win 1st place then you can tell me its arbitrary and pointless.

Edited by Khobai, 07 June 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[Reitrix]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Wrong. An A1, Kintaro, or Stalker chain-firing 5-6 LRM5s can easily keep mechs shaking around so much they cant aim at all, even with the shake reduction module.

Plus LRM5s have a crazy tight spread, compared to LRM15s/20s, and nearly always hit the torso sections of enemy mechs. Boated LRM5s are demonstrably more lethal than any other combination of LRMs for that reason.

The cooldown of LRMs needs to be increased (damage increased too) and the impulse needs to be decreased. In addition ECM also needs to be nerfed so it no longer hard counters LRMs. To that end, AOE bubble stealth needs to be removed (ECM should only give stealth to the mech its equipped on). Those changes would help make LRMs more universally viable without them being overpowered.

yeah, if you're unfortunate enough to be locked on to, and fired upon for .. ohhh about a minute while i slowly but surely chip away at that armor?

[Kilo 40]

Zerberus, on 07 June 2014 - 06:17 AM, said:

All that tells me, no disrespect intended, is that there were some really crappy players in that tournament.

not necessarily.

It's not that everyone who dies by LRMs sucks. Even the best players make mistakes or make a bad call and get caught out in the open. Plus with a really good LRM pilot who knows how to flank and has a good spotter, or a team who knows how to make use of his LRMs, they can be very effective against even "pro" teams.

[Khobai]

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yeah, if you're unfortunate enough to be locked on to, and fired upon for .. ohhh about a minute while i slowly but surely chip away at that armor?

a minute? boated LRM5s can core out assault mechs in less than 30 seconds.

[KingCobra]

Well MR.OP I think the weapons balance right now is not to bad.A small adjustment to the LRM firing arc would help I still see missiles going around and through hills and buildings to much causing damage that should be deflected by objects .Also a small speed tweak to some lights would be good like slowing the spider, commander ,locus and a few other lights down.

But that's about it LRM are not to OP.