517 replies to this topic

[Lord Letto]

TC: #MWOPayToWin2014
CC: Need to buff the **** out of that **** to negate above point

[FETTY WAP]

Can it be removed from the mechs during the time where it is essentially a brick, then placed and locked back into them after the second patch..?

[van Uber]

DocBach, on 08 June 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Yeah, I totally hate when people want this game to be more like the 30 years of backstory and lore it is based in too!

30 years of backstory is cool. 30 years of backstory taking precedence over good game design aimed at making real time combat fun, not so cool.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I have to admit I am a little confused.

So the IS Command Console is a weaker version of BAP, which weighs half as much.

And the Clan Targeting Computer is intended to buff the currently over powered Meta. "Gauss Rifles, PPCs, and non-LBX Autocannons".

Way to think it through PGI, I can see why it has taken so long to get that information to us.

[SgtMagor]

gonna have to tweak my loadout on the D-DC and put back in the Console. an Atlas with ECM and Command Console should give it a good bump up in the electronic warfare front.

[Zerberus]

Lord Letto, on 08 June 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

TC: #MWOPayToWin2014
CC: Need to buff the **** out of that **** to negate above point

You don`t know what Pay to Win actually means, do you? Becasue that`s the only way this preposterous statement can be explained.

Pay To Win means you MUST invest real money to be competitive. Something MWO has successfully stayed quite far away from.

No gold ammo, no "I win" buttons..... There has not ever been an equipment item available for only real money in MWO, and even teh Modules available for MC have 100% identical c-bill equivalents.

And the TCs will 100% certain be available for IG cash, at the very latest when the c-bill variants of mechs that have one are released.

The CC is lackluster in comparison, but calling the TCs P2W is just flat out ignorant.

Edited by Zerberus, 08 June 2014 - 08:16 AM.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

I want to say thank you. It has only taken you this long to finally explain what a piece of electronics we've had for forever but was really just a dead weight (knowing friends who have kept it as part of a config because they were sure something would be coming in the near future).

Kudos!

Still, it seems a bit underwhelming and doesn't really have features that seem to befit a leader. If parts of this stack with BAP and Target Info Gathering... yeah, but it just doesn't seem to go far enough.

[Barkem Squirrel]

The targeting computers I will have to leave for someone else to comment on, but the command console I do have some comments from 29 January 2013

First I can see a problem with the code for dropping in 4 man or 12 man groups with an extra player or could a command console allow that 13 or 5th person not to need a mech? Or at drop designate the player to be in the command console


http://mwomercs.com/...anders-tactics/

[color=#959595]Here is what a command console needs:[/color]

• maintain a listing of the different red team mechs with the weapons and health status. maybe add info like has ECM.
  
• Maintain a listing of the blue teams mechs and health/weapons status.
  
• have the ability for the commander to either pilot and command, pilot with an other player in the back to take over command in combat or have another person pilot and they just command.issue command symbols that are displayed on the HUD instead of just on the map. (changes to the plan after contact.)
  
• have the ability to chose which mech view to look through
  
• maintain a larger map on the HUD or use the map as the main view.have certain keys for standard alerts. Like for responding to base cap, do a base rush, charge, get the lights shooting the assaults in the back. Bluff assault and fall back to regroup.
  
• Have a map overlay system. identify fall back positions. FASCAM or other minefields. Known reference points for Calls for fire. (Example: point XX east 200 north 300)
  
• Assign route to the objective with assigned over-watch locations.
  
• Then as the game progresses, you will have other input devices (UAV's) and new sensor packages.

[color=#959595]The command chair does have a use, and if an extra person is in the game just directing the fight, it could be a game changer. As larger maps are introduced, I would guess that this system would be more of a use. River City due to the size it could be harder to use this system, but Caustic and Forest Colony it could be a force multiplier now. [/color]

end of jan13 post



I still like the idea of a 13th person.
The ability to call for arty or airstrikes with the azimuth of attack from the map
list identified red team mechs with load out as identified and black them out as killed
duplicate the screen for the map to a point, but that is below.

Now what I see after seeing the description
add two Module slots
increase sensor range 25%. In addition to modules and other systems
Time to gather target info should be about 25%, but again in addition to modules and other systems
The zoom is interesting

One concern I do have is having the command consoles being used by lights and Mediums as a scouting element instead of on heavies and assaults. This may take away from the lore, but does give it a use. Now that ranges have been reduced, there is less of a change for loading this up in a Jager with 3 AC 2's and plunking people 1600 to 2000 m away. ERPPC, well that is a different story.

So I see this as changing the system from Command and Control to a buffed sensor package.


It would be interesting with a 13th person, viewing from different cockpits, see the map, calling for fire, designating targets, maintaining contact info on the red team.

Carrioncrows, on 07 June 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Neither one of these are worth a damn.

Tonnage for scan time? That's what modules are for and hell I don't even bother with those.

Hundreds of good ideas on what to do and this is what you guys came up with?

I consider both of these idea's Failures.

Another missed opportunity.

You want feedback.

Make the Command Console work like this:



1. Whoever has a command console can see what loadouts enemy mechs have (If they have been scanned)

2. Whoever has a command console can then assign targeting priority to different targets (Instead of a red box around that enemy mech it might be Purple, or Yellow to let everyone on your team know to kill that one)

3. Whoever has a command console can issue orders to lances and give them Waypoints to travel to

4. Lastly, whoever has a command console can call down artillery from the map screen. (Sort of like call of duty)

[BARBAR0SSA]

Command console should get a LOS all targets available to team buff.

[willismaximus]

Never mind the fact that I don't understand how a computer can make projectiles go faster, I like the TC implementation. I'm afraid that at least a MKI is going to be standard on all clan mechs, seeing as it's a minimal ton/slot investment for a large gain. Hopefully only certain variants will be allowed to equip one to maintain diversity.

As for the CC, so disappointed. It's like they couldn't think of anything easy to implement, so they just said "screw it, just make it an IS targeting computer." I was really hoping for something unique to IS but equal in effectiveness to the clan TC. For example, a buff to allies, call in an off map strike (orbital strike?,) unique modules, hell anything. Different is better. Different is what keeps the game interesting. Copy/pasta from the clan TC is boring. A worse version of BAP is even more boring.

But alas, at least it does something. Here's hoping for improvement down the line.

[Sennin]

This seems like a total shortcut to programming the targeting computer. A simple java mech editor can scale a TC's criticals and weight by the total weight of the direct fire weaponry attached to it. For every 5 tons of direct fire weaponry the targeting computer is supposed to grow 1 ton and 1 critical slot in size. Is making this scale up and down so difficult?

If I read and understand this correctly, in the case of the Warhawk, if I only mount 4 Medium Pulse Lasers the MWO implementation still leaves me with a 6 ton/crit TC where it should only be 2 and on the opposite end of the spectrum it allows me to mount rediculously heavier equipment at no further penalty? This is seriously flawed.

My other concern is the lock time reduction, this is possibly going to apply a large bonus to missles (e.g. LRM/Streaks) as well. This is something it is never supposed to effect.

Finally, the Command Console is still a brick and a lazy attempt at appeasement for a piece of equipment that has sat dormant for almost 2 YEARS.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Can we at least have the command console increase the chance and the quality of salvage for your eventual economy that has risks and rewards, bused on role war1fare, and is a feature which sees the return for repair and re-arm?

[McQueen]

SgtMagor, on 08 June 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

gonna have to tweak my loadout on the D-DC and put back in the Console. an Atlas with ECM and Command Console should give it a good bump up in the electronic warfare front.

Except that you can get better "Command" function out of a BAP for less weight. Plus you get some ECCM with the active probe.

( I know that in game electronic counter-countermeasures is labeled C-ECM but, I don't want to pick up bad habits. )

[Livewyr]

Targeting computer might be useful for Gauss, given a projectile speed increase, but I rather hoped for a meta effect to a meta set of systems.

[Name140704]

The Command Console is not acceptable like this. The only part that makes a little sense is the target info gathering.

"I can zoom-in better because my Commander is in the cockpit with me."

[Name140704]

van Uber, on 08 June 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

good game design

[OliverTwisted]

The increased crit chance and projectile speed increase ,to me, is too much .

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Seems like a shallow way of handling this without thought to the current game issues.

Whatever though. It's more of a Clan thing which is a lot more "unknown" with all of our ideas for fixing pinpoint being put into their weapons.

[Punkass]

I'm looking at the Command Chair post and I'm thinking PGI is now intentionally reinforcing PPCs+ballistics as the weapon load out of choice. I guess that's fine if that's the game you want to play, but I think it further reinforces one tactic over any other. Call it cheesy, call it cheap, call it meta. I just call it lame and boring. This game has gone stale, and crap like what's proposed in the command chair is why. By implementing the Targeting Computers the way they're designed right now, I think it just further detracts from any sort of game play variety.

[Dakkath]

Appogee, on 07 June 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

It's implausible and stupid. Enhanced zoom, faster target info gathering and increased sensor range increased the opportunity for accuracy in a plausible way.

There was no need to introduce an implausible increase in muzzle speed and take the game further down the path of arcade shooter.

A far better solution to all of this would have been for all weapons to incur a small amount of reticle drift during Mech movement, when firing or taking fire... which could then have been reduced by adding the superior accuracy of a targeting computer, or mitigated by player skill in firing at the right time, or trading off the accuracy of standing still vs the defensive bonus of moving.

Instead we got the stupid, immersion-breaking easy option of "buff all existing modifiers" - regardless of how implausible some of them are - as is usual from these developers.

Carrioncrows, on 07 June 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Neither one of these are worth a damn.

Tonnage for scan time? That's what modules are for and hell I don't even bother with those.

Hundreds of good ideas on what to do and this is what you guys came up with?

I consider both of these idea's Failures.

Another missed opportunity.

You want feedback.

Make the Command Console work like this:



1. Whoever has a command console can see what loadouts enemy mechs have (If they have been scanned)

2. Whoever has a command console can then assign targeting priority to different targets (Instead of a red box around that enemy mech it might be Purple, or Yellow to let everyone on your team know to kill that one)

3. Whoever has a command console can issue orders to lances and give them Waypoints to travel to

4. Lastly, whoever has a command console can call down artillery from the map screen. (Sort of like call of duty)

Pretty much these posts take what I would expect from the modules. I've always thought there should have been reticule drift from the get-go, and the inability for torso-mount weapons to pinpoint at all ranges. It would have been nice to allow the TC to adjust your 'convergence' range for torso mounted weapons as a function of the module. Reticule drift should be reduced/tweaked as you changed TC's or upgraded the TC. I could go on and on, but yeah...

I do not like the current idea at this time.