458 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

streak-20s as long as you stay outside 100m. Ouch.

[Sharknoms]

Koniving, on 07 June 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

So, ultimately every concept, every idea, everything ever spouted about ways to help reduce pinpoint damage and de-meta the game for the Inner sphere to develop a fun experience for all... has been applied exclusively to the Clans.

Well, we won't have to worry about the Clans being overpowered. Even with the almighty targeting computer, they are effectively incapable of pinpoint with anything except the Gauss Rifle. (That's not a bad thing... but it doesn't change Inner Sphere essentially outclassing everything. Is their pinpoint part of the balance?)

Facepalm towards PGI

[Forte]

Scratx, on 07 June 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

The Gauss Rifle nerf barely affects mechs currently deployed but eliminates particularly crazy builds like 45-60 damage PPFLD gauss possible on Dire Wolf. Seems good.

The LB/AC thing, we'll deal with it while you guys figure out how to reengineer the weapons to allow selectable ammunition, I guess. Not huge.

LRMs... meh, I suspect firing them under 180 isn't going to provide the results most people likely want out of it anyway due to the exponential nature. We'll deal with it while you get that right.

Side note, though I suspect I know the answer, will the IS LB10 ever get a slug munition? I'm aware it'd invalidate the AC10... but I'm wondering, if it on firing slugs acts like a clan LB and fires multiple slugs while the regular AC10 remains single shell FLD, wouldn't it mean the AC10 remains a valid option?


Oh, and CERPPC might be too powerful (especially since it costs less crits and tons) unless it either generates higher heat or has longer cooldowns. Or both.

I don't think the cERPPC will be OP with that restriction, tho I do feel they should improve the heat on it to like 12 or 13. That way it still runs hotter, but it is controllable. I currently greatly dislike ERPPCs for the high heat for little gain they have.

[TELEFORCE]

I'll still use a triple gauss configuration on my Dire Wolf. I don't care if they fire all at once. A 30-point blow followed up by a 15-point blow is going to be brutal anyway!

And it seems that my guess on how they were going to treat the Clan ERPPC was right. I don't mind it. You still get CBills and EXP for 15 damage. Plus if I accidentally nail an arm or CT instead of a bright red ST, that ST is more likely to go as a result of damage spread

[Deadeye254]

No pinpoint damage what so ever for clans needs to happen to IS as well you guys do know you have just made clan mechs worthless in the comp seen witch is my main focus on this game I will be asking for a refund and I suspect others will do the same.

[Deadeye254]

Look man how many times do we have to point this out its not a space problem its a tonnage problem cause we cant change engine or armor type we have a limited amount of tonnage who cares about 2 slot DHS when you only have 22 tons to play with.

Edited by Deadeye254, 08 June 2014 - 06:02 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

IS PPC = 10 heat for 10 pinpoint

C ERPPC = 15 heat for 10 pinpoint + 5 arcing damage, no min range, greater max range.

Seems fine at 15 heat to me. Not only is the heat to damage ratio about the same, but you also get a massive range advantage.

They don't work at 15 heat and DHS 1.4. You end up at a maximum mechanical (heat) recharge of about 11 seconds on two ERPPCs after firing them (2) 2-3 times, (5 ERPPC singlefired shots puts you at the heat limit with 22 DHS). This means you really can't even utilize two ERPPCs now because they will be recharged faster than the mech can cool down. It works out to firing 2xERPPCs once every 10-11 seconds in combat with 22 DHS.

The problem is that these ERPPCs are expected to compete with cool rapid-fire autocannons and this is a fair comparison since not all mechs have Ballistic hardpoints. So compare to 2xAC10's with 4 tons ammo. The AC10's don't need 22 DHS so you save 12 tons right there. Then they can fire 20 damage to 450 meters every 2.5 seconds with no overheat danger. That's 100 damage in 10 seconds compared to 40 damage from the ERPPCs (add 15-18 spread damage for Clan). In an actual battle that is what counts.

What mystifies me is how ACs get a blank check on damage in MWO, but Energy is heavily restricted far below Battletech normal usage and is used as the only overall damage balancing method by MWO. The Mechs were designed to have all three weapon systems being equal. That's how stock energy boats can compete against the other mechs.

[EyeOne]

CERPPC - Good. I wish this was the case with IS PPCs too

LRMs, LBX - Fine fine.

Gauss Changes - ...why? There are plenty of ways around this why would you bother doing this? What about 2x Gauss, 2x CERPPC? That's a 50 Alpha with 10 spread around with ZERO penalty. Paul, this isn't the way to balance a game. This is a bad idea.

[wanderer]

A lot of this feels like trying to get Clan = IS at it's finest.

Gauss? OK, we'll be seeing 2x Gauss + something else- CERPPC, Clan UAC/5's, whatever. It does mitigate the massive FLD slightly.

"Clan AC's" points towards serious developmental fail. We've been complaining about a lack of alt-fire modes for the LB-X since closed beta.

Burst AC's should have been a gimme, though- and all you'd have to do is make Clan bursts a bit longer (extra shell per burst) vs IS AC's and lo and behold, you'd have taken care of one of the big FLD problems.

Clan PPC splash? That's about right, though losing partial damage on limb shots is a mite painful. Howabout 10/5 for an arm hit, 10/2.5/2.5 for a torso hit? IS PPC's could be 8/1/1 or 8/2 depending on hit location.

Clan LRMs? Wait and see.

Figure lasers got "balanced" with existing mechanics. Wait and see.

Edited by wanderer, 08 June 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[Scratx]

Deadeye254, on 08 June 2014 - 05:35 AM, said:

No pinpoint damage what so ever for clans needs to happen to IS as well you guys do know you have just made clan mechs worthless in the comp seen witch is my main focus on this game I will be asking for a refund and I suspect others will do the same.

Deadeye254, on 08 June 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

Look man how many times do we have to point this out its not a space problem its a tonnage problem cause we cant change engine or armor type we have a limited amount of tonnage who cares about 2 slot DHS when you only have 22 tons to play with.

Umm, you go do that, my Dire Wolf with one side torso blown off will be laughing at the Inner Sphere mechs as it keeps pumping autocannon fire into them.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

I like that we finally got arcing dmg. I think it should be a bit more severe though. Add it to IS PPC's (5:2.5:2.5 or 6:2:2) and change Clan ERPPC to 5:5:5 or 7:4:4 IS ERPPC could also use a dmg Buff or it could have its FLD increased to give people a reason to take it. Think 8:1:1 or 7:2.5:2.5. It needs something to offset the heat generation.

[Tuann]

gaus : Fine
all the rest,.... makes me feel like an idiot to have spend 240$

i am ok with nerfing,.; but IS mechs are MORE customisable, faster and heavier armoured than clan mechs.

WTF?

Balance PGI, BALANCE ! not just nerf. if u look for balance, look at the total concept.

[J0anna]

Nerfing clan weapons like this and leaving freebirth weapons untouched is unsat.

Arching damage for Clan ERPPC's while freebirth PPC's remain pinpoint? Look at your stats, how many people use 2x freebirth ERPPC builds now?

Clan AC's (which should not exist) burst fire (not to mention all you talked about was the AC-2, how does the AC-20 work, 20 single point rounds?) and freebirth AC's still pinpoint damage? Do you realize there is no reason to ever use clan LBX weapons? There is no situation where they would be a better choice.

No mention of heat sink values? No talk of Ghost heat? No discussion of projectile speed, will I need to arch my LBX shots like I do AC shots now?

Clan LRM's do not work, can we expect a fix for them to be as fast as the fix for SRM's or 4x3?

Stop trying to balance clan weapons in a vacuum, you've already placed limitations on them with how limited Omnimechs are, removing front loaded damage from clan weapons and leaving it on freebirth weapons is not game balance at all.

By not placing these weapons on the test server, you have effectively turned the live server into the test server. I was looking forward to dropping in these mechs on the 17th, as of now I can only see a few situations where I would ever use them in competitive 12-mans.

[Igor Kozyrev]

Tuann, on 08 June 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

gaus : Fine
all the rest,.... makes me feel like an idiot to have spend 240$

So true.

PGI, what the hell with you? You can't afford one or two programmer capable of programming? How the hell you can't do switching ammo types on the fly? How the hell you can't eliminate CLRM minimum range? Don't you had plenty of time? Didn't you already try to do that when you broke all missiles? WTF? And speaking about targeting computers, why the hell you don't even know exact values for anything?

[Lockon StratosII]

Gauss:
wouldn't it be better to remove charge up, reduce recycle to 3 and only allow it to reload one at a time (3 sec for first, another 3 for second etc..) still good for sniping if you come prepared with all rifles recharged, not so much for brawling since after first shot you will have dead weight on your mech...

ERPPC:
I like the way this is going, only thing that bugs me is the dmg that vanishes into thin air, maybe something like this:

Quote

LA hit-> 10 dmg to LA, 2.5 dmg to LT and 2.5 dmg to BLT

RA hit-> 10 dmg to RA, 2.5 dmg to RT and 2.5 dmg to BRT

LL hit-> 10 dmg to LL, 2.5 dmg to CT and 2.5 dmg to RL

RL hit-> 10 dmg to RL, 2.5 dmg to CT and 2.5 dmg to LL

also probably reduce heat to 13, this way it's too hot

LRMs: why not simply make them do 0.5 dmg under 180 meters (throw in some mumbo jumbo like warheads don't arm in first x meters so missiles act like kinetic penetrators or something like that) easier to code and not so many calculations for server to handle

[RedDragon]

The really sad thing is: If you look at the new mechanics that will be implemented for Clans, only those that are already in the game or don't need a lot of work are finished for Clan launch. ER-PPC splash damage already exists (SRM). Gauss dual-fire can't be that hard to code. That leaves LRMs and LB-X which both have a new mechanic, and both do not work yet.

So in short, apart from the new shiny mechs, there hasn't been any serious work since they announced the Clans. My guess is that they didn't even have a final concept until a few weeks ago. That's certainly not how you deliver a product to your paying customers in a game that isn't beta any more.

[ShinVector]

Lockon StratosII, on 08 June 2014 - 07:38 AM, said:

ERPPC:
I like the way this is going, only thing that bugs me is the dmg that vanishes into thin air, maybe something like this:

also probably reduce heat to 13, this way it's too hot

Geee... Why don't we reduce the IS ERPPC heat while your at it ?? Clan version weighs less, takes less critical slots and does MORE damage than IS ERPPCs.. Reduce the heat too ?

[Felicitatem Parco]

Gauss:
Good change. It is game-play appropriate, and has a Lore-based mechanism for explanation. Since it's carried over to the IS weapon, it normalizes the 2 camps.


Clan ERPPC:
Good change. It reflects the community's desires. The "disappearing damage" that people are complaining about is what we in the gaming community call "splash damage" that's not being aplied because there's no material to aply damage against. It's okay, most of us approve of it. Also, please ignore the silly comments about how Clan ERPPCs are "too hot because they deal 15 dmg for 15 heat whereas the IS PPC generates 10 heat for 10 damage." Those people forgot how to do math, because most of us remember from elementary school that 15/15 = 10/10

LRMs:
Sounds good; like you said earlier, the point wasn't to make the Clan LRM20 into a StreakSRM20. Also, giving the Clan LRMs no minimum range would drive IS players who like LRMs to the Clans in order to simply enjoy the game more.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 June 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[Lockon StratosII]

ShinVector, on 08 June 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Geee... Why don't we reduce the IS ERPPC heat while your at it ?? Clan version weighs less, takes less critical slots and does MORE damage than IS ERPPCs.. Reduce the heat too ?

I meant for IS version too (including splash, with different values ofc), as they are right now they are too hot, that's why you don't see that many ERs in game (I use one on my CDA paired with a regular and I can tell you it's too hot even when firing it solo unless you are on cold map), heck I would be willing to trade dmg distribution (ie 8 to hit location + 3.5 + 3.5) for that reduction or even reduce overall dmg because as it is now it's simply too hot to use at 15

edited for spelling

Edited by Lockon StratosII, 08 June 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Question:

When can IS players get cool burst-fire weapons?

Do you remember when we used the AC/2 as a stream weapon? That's because it's cool. When can we do that with IS Mechs? Or, will the Clans be the only Mechs that get the cool guns?