458 replies to this topic

[ScarecrowES]

Paul Inouye, on 07 June 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Spoiler

If you hit a component that does not have an adjacent component, the 2.5 damage will dissipate into nothing. An example of this is if the Clan ER-PPC hits an arm, 10 points of damage will be applied to the arm and 2.5 damage to that side's torso. The other 2.5 damage will be negated so total damage done on the shot is 12.5.

What? So do you also drop the negative effects of firing the weapon to compensate for the loss in damage as well? Given that this type of effect comes into play on any hit other than in a torso, it seems like a way to gimp the weapon for any aiming strategy other than torso coring (ie legging, headshots, zombie-ing). Damage should never be LOST on a good hit. That's obsurd! Why not just make it so that, if there is only one adjacent component to the one hit, ALL travelling damage is done to that adjacent component? So if you hit a right torso, 2.5 damage is transferred to the center torso, and 2.5 to the right arm. But if you hit the right arm, 5 is transferred to the right torso. This makes vastly more sense from a physics perspective, is very easy to code (one or 2 simple lines of additional code, if that), and doesn't result in arbitrarily reduced damage.

[SirLANsalot]

Gauss, makes sense, but at the same time a mute point to be doing since you just only delayed the 60 alpha by .75 sec......might as well not even have done the "limit" then.

PPC....ok I guess.

LBX. So your telling me the "slug" rounds of an LBX will be the same ones a UAC can use? Aka the LBX-2 in slug is a 2 shot 1 damage weapon....and we know the UAC will do the same thing. So tell me why should I ever use an LBX as a clanner? The slug rounds of the LBX need to be...SLUG, just like the IS AC's are right now. This would give the clanner a CHOICE in what he would want. He can choose between a higher crit slotted weapon, but get both a single shot slug or a canister. OR he could choose a high RoF based UAC weapon but it takes less crits but has a jam chance.

LRMs...so biggie.

[anonymous161]

Yup just what I figured the clans will suck and requesting a refund for the clan pack is justified, the clans are not ready not complete are still broken they have had a long time to work on this and still cant do it right before release. What a shock.

NOPE not rebuying them I see no value in a broken pack of mechs that are already nerfed beyond being useful on the field. I'll stick with the IS mechs and just play trial versions of the clan mechs when they release them on there. Yeah I've pretty much lost hope in this game. I got into this for the clans and they broke them as well. No thanks you can keep the broken clan mechs pgi really glad I refunded now. I'm pretty disheartened waited all these months and turns out they are not even ready for release. Not sure how these guys are still in business.

Guess I will have more money to buy more lego star wars stuff for my growing collection for man cave.

[Phlinger]

Kmieciu, on 08 June 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

I predict:

cERML - 7 damage, 6 heat, 1.5 second burn time :-)

I predict:

Everyone gravitating to ERMedium Lasers and SSRM 4's and 6's until we get a nerf to the overall damage of both. They already stated in the original design philosophy thread that Clan Streaks will rapid fire two at a time. Clans have NO FLD while the IS retains all of theirs.

The Summoner is going to be a 70 ton Shadowhawk, with less tonnage too play around with.

And their analogy they used so LRM's can't be point blank fired. They said they would be effectively an LRM Streak if they did. Math says otherwise.

LRM 20 does 22 damage
SSRM 2 does 5 damage
SRM 6 does 12.9

They don''t have to nerf LRM damage below 180 meters, just reduce the amount they track the target below 180 meters. Make SSRM's track REALLY well and LRM's move like a stiff board until 180 meters. Problem solved. Just don't face hug an LRM boat.

[ShinVector]

Lockon StratosII, on 08 June 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

I meant for IS version too (including splash, with different values ofc), as they are right now they are too hot, that's why you don't see that many ERs in game (I use one on my CDA paired with a regular and I can tell you it's too hot even when firing it solo unless you are on cold map), heck I would be willing to trade dmg distribution (ie 8 to hit location + 3.5 + 3.5) for that reduction or even reduce overall dmg because as it is now it's simply too hot to use at 15

edited for spelling

And your point of balance is for more people to boat the ERPPC ?
Just like LRMs, I am against any ideas that takes away brawling from the game... (yes having long range weapons that are too good.. does that..)

Why bother with short range combat when you can PEw PEw PEw away from a distance away from the frontlines ?

Edited by ShinVector, 08 June 2014 - 08:20 AM.

[Zerberus]

Chemie, on 08 June 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

streak-20s as long as you stay outside 100m. Ouch.

More like streak 5-10s at best, becasue streaks do 2.25x as much damage /missile as LRMs and at 100m you`re only doing half of that. So at 180m it becomes a weak streak 10, assuming all missiles hit, at 100M it`s weaker than a streak6, for more tonnage and more heat..

And Voila! Suddenly they don`t seem as horrendously OP anymore, 1/4-1/2 of what was stated... One just has to use ALL the available data to draw a conclusion instead of comparing apples to oranges

Edited by Zerberus, 08 June 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[anonymous161]

RedDragon, on 08 June 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

Frankly, I don't care anymore. This could have been the chance for PGI to surprise us in a positive way, and they botched it. Now it's business as usual again. They can release their half-finished content and the people who bought it can have their fun with it while everyone else who hoped PGI would turn around and actually make progress in the game can leave or keep on hoping.

THIS

Yeah I dont really care anymore. I'm done waiting for these devs to prove they can do something right in a video game. This was the last straw they couldn't even get the clans right and it's not even done they are still playing the we cant do it card.

Peace out fellas happy hunting.

[VanillaG]

I like the idea of the splash mechanic for PPC would like the see the following changes:

• IS PPC - 7.5 pinpoint and 2.5 splash to 1 adjacent component
  
• Clan PPC - 7.5 pinpoint and 3.75 to 2 adjacent components.

This way both versions have the same pinpoint and both have splash damage. The only potential downside is that there might be a RNG for the IS PPC to determine which panel gets the splash unless you can determine the closest panel based on where the shot lands.

[Waelsleaht]

So 7 damage and 1.5 to each adjacent for IS PPC? Would do a lot to help balance meta in IS mechs.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Redshift2k5, on 07 June 2014 - 09:00 PM, said:

i don't really expect the stock Masakari with 4x ERPPC will run very well; Two ERPPC and a pair fo ERLL or ERLPL, though, could be awesome. It will also have tons of superior range and additional view/sensor/weapon range with it's gigantic targeting computer. (or trade it for a smaller TC and some extra heatsinks)

I find it strange you guys can't get the LRMs to work in time, a bit disappointed here.

Targeting computer= Command console? Pretty much a massive waste of space......yet clan mechs wont be able to remove it...so its what? 5 crit slots I would rather dump in 2 more DHS.

[ScarecrowES]

Ronyn, on 08 June 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

They don''t have to nerf LRM damage below 180 meters, just reduce the amount they track the target below 180 meters. Make SSRM's track REALLY well and LRM's move like a stiff board until 180 meters. Problem solved. Just don't face hug an LRM boat.

I suspect from the amount of trouble their having coding the exponential damage curve below 180m, that this would be an even more difficult solution.

Ultimately, it'd be a difficult enough thing to set up if you had 2 static mechs involved (the firer and target both not moving, and thus remaining at a fixed distance). If both targets are moving, however, I suspect the challenge becomes significantly more difficult. Damage values would have to track and change in real time to account for changes in distance between the two players involved, and that seems to be an even bigger problem if you're looking at tracking strength. They can't even get missiles to hit right.

As far as basic mechanics go, I've always thought that using the tabletop rulesets as a guide was just plain stupid for a real-time simulation. They were never designed for that. Remaining beholden to those rulesets as the clan tech becomes available in-game is even more boneheaded. However, by far the worst is to implement according to tabletop rules, find that it doesn't balance (as you'd expect) and then simply neuter and gut said tech until there is little distinguishable difference between clan and IS.

I had genuinely hoped that PGI would come up with more creative solutions. Burst-fire UAC's might be along those lines, but only if you've significantly reduced the jamming chance accordingly. Otherwise not only are you going to lose out on point damage (effectively making a ballistic laser with the requisite spread or loss in damage), but now you've also got the loss to jamming. IS comes out on top here for (and I'd never thought I'd say this) UAC reliability. Go with this solution, sure, but make sure you reduce your reload times and chance to jam accordingly, otherwise there'll be no point.

"Steam-fire" SSRMs? So AMS has a better shot at shooting them down? Why? Why, then, would I waste the extra tonnage for larger Streak missile launchers to do effectively less real damage than the IS equivelants? I'm sure there's a better way here.

And really, can't we find a better way to do clan PPC's than to effectively make them equal-worse to their IS counterparts? Couldn't we leave the stats more or less per spec for damage and range, keep heat equivelant to IS PPCs (not ER), and add a charge mechanic like Gauss rifles? Then you'd create a skill reward system for clan PPCs and basically make them like an energy gauss with high heat but infinite fire. Better than trying to neuter them with ridiculous stat penalties.

[LordKnightFandragon]

FupDup, on 07 June 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Baby Adder agrees. Baby Adder wants to hurt bad nerfgun wielding man.

And Masakari wants to grind nerfgun man's face into the ground with the mech's foot...

[anonymous161]

I see no reason to play the game anymore, I installed for clans. Played for 2 years basically for nothing wasted every penny I spent on this, they are not ready for clans they are not finished, no new maps, game is still broken in too many ways to get into in one book...I have no real reason to play this, the clans was my only real interest in this game the rest was just filler till the clans arrived and was super excited only for them to be broken as everything else in this god damn game.

I wish I could get a refund on every penny spent on this game and just have my account deleted and blocked and not ever to be able to reopen again. I'd be fine with that if I can get my money back...with the money I'd get back could easily buy that lego star war super star destroyer and death star...now that would be worth it. Got a nice collection going for my man cave will be worth a ton of money most of the pieces are but I dont want to just get them and sell them I want them for bragging rights hehe. I'm not one of those guys that sells stuff on ebay I collect and keep. I dont even trade video games anymore even if I dont like the game I just keep it, perhaps be worth something later on, maybe enough to part with it.

Edited by Darth Bane001, 08 June 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[Lockon StratosII]

ShinVector, on 08 June 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

And your point of balance is for more people to boat the ERPPC ?
Just like LRMs, I am against any ideas that takes away brawling from the game... (yes having long range weapons that are too good.. does that..)

Why bother with short range combat when you can PEw PEw PEw away from a distance away from the frontlines ?

no my point is to make it viable:
here take stats from my previous reply for example:
two ERs, effective range 810m, dmg 16 pinpont and 2x7 splash for 26 heat, 12 tons (not gonna take DHS into consideration) assuming you hit same location.
clan gauss with 660m, 15 dmg pinpoint, 1 heat and at least 13 tons for long range counterpart.
you can fire one of these two indefinitely (assuming you have enough ammo), but other is still viable.
Even their stats or 10+2.5+2.5 at 15 give you 20 pinpoint + 2x5 at 30 heat, that is simply way too hot even after you pad your mech with DHS for tonnage difference and would be better using 2 gauss

I agree with you about brawling, but that is the problem of brawling weapons not long range weapons, they simply can't compete: srms don't register and when they do they actually do less dmg than SSRMs (honestly this is one of rare moments when I asked myself wtf is going on, other being the fact that projectile weapon is faster than energy weapon even though I know not to mix physics with gameplay ballance), pulses are way too hot, undergunned, and heavy for what they offer, they simply need a rework to make them shine in close quarters because right now it's still possible to hit 4+ areas of a mech with one pulse...

[SgtMagor]

thx for the heads up, Clan mechs almost here, its been a long time I'm ready to hop back in my Summoner!, very happy Lone Wolf

1-mechs +1
2-TC +1
3-Command Console +1
4-new clan weapons +1

[ShinVector]

Lockon StratosII, on 08 June 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

no my point is to make it viable:
here take stats from my previous reply for example:
two ERs, effective range 810m, dmg 16 pinpont and 2x7 splash for 26 heat, 12 tons (not gonna take DHS into consideration) assuming you hit same location.
clan gauss with 660m, 15 dmg pinpoint, 1 heat and at least 13 tons for long range counterpart.
you can fire one of these two indefinitely (assuming you have enough ammo), but other is still viable.
Even their stats or 10+2.5+2.5 at 15 give you 20 pinpoint + 2x5 at 30 heat, that is simply way too hot even after you pad your mech with DHS for tonnage difference and would be better using 2 gauss

I agree with you about brawling, but that is the problem of brawling weapons not long range weapons, they simply can't compete: srms don't register and when they do they actually do less dmg than SSRMs (honestly this is one of rare moments when I asked myself wtf is going on, other being the fact that projectile weapon is faster than energy weapon even though I know not to mix physics with gameplay ballance), pulses are way too hot, undergunned, and heavy for what they offer, they simply need a rework to make them shine in close quarters because right now it's still possible to hit 4+ areas of a mech with one pulse...

People still use ERPPC but they don't boat them because of the high heat.. I believe that is good for balance..
Why this is bad for brawling is because... KITE-ting can be very op with the right builds and map.

If they can fix hit detection.. I can expect to see more variety in weapon loadouts.. First SRMs.. Next they got to fix is lasers..
People who uses these weapon don't really need additional advantages at this point of time.. They just need them to work right like REGISTER HITS WHERE people see them hit.. (hope pgi listens..)

[Felbombling]

What are these stop gap Autocannons going to do in the higher calibers? Are they going to act like a machine gun or something? I don't think the example of the LB 2-X and Clan Autocannon 2 were as descriptive of the different versions as they needed to be. Please clarify.

[Phlinger]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

I suspect from the amount of trouble their having coding the exponential damage curve below 180m, that this would be an even more difficult solution.

Ultimately, it'd be a difficult enough thing to set up if you had 2 static mechs involved (the firer and target both not moving, and thus remaining at a fixed distance). If both targets are moving, however, I suspect the challenge becomes significantly more difficult. Damage values would have to track and change in real time to account for changes in distance between the two players involved, and that seems to be an even bigger problem if you're looking at tracking strength. They can't even get missiles to hit right.

"Steam-fire" SSRMs? So AMS has a better shot at shooting them down? Why? Why, then, would I waste the extra tonnage for larger Streak missile launchers to do effectively less real damage than the IS equivelants? I'm sure there's a better way here.

With LRM's, it sounds like they are having problems with LRM damage at below 180 meters. If they just remove the damage variable, and decrease the LRM tracking below 180 meters, this would fix the entire problem. Not all 20 LRM's of a 20 rack hit to begin with. I'm sure they'd have to fiddle with it a bit, but nothing in comparison to the damage variable. Anyone who has been playing this game since closed betaa knows that they can easily fiddle with LRM tracking, they've been doing it for years. They just need to do away with the variable all together. LRM's do 1.1 damage each compared to SRM's doing significantly higher damage. The variable is unneeded. Clan LRM's should fire at 0 meters for full damage. But, the only time an entire LRM 20 rack does full damage with 0 range is if you face hug the firer.

[Daekar]

Very sensible limitations. Glad to see things going smoothly in Clan design.

Thanks for the heads up on the LRM minimum range - too bad it won't make it in the initial patch, but certainly worth waiting for.

RIP 3xGauss Ilya Muromets. You were hilarious and bad while you lasted.

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

IS PPC = 10 heat for 10 pinpoint

C ERPPC = 15 heat for 10 pinpoint + 5 arcing damage, no min range, greater max range.

Seems fine at 15 heat to me. Not only is the heat to damage ratio about the same, but you also get a massive range advantage.

The heat to damage ratio is the same.

The damage delivery is not the same, as 1/3rd of it is spread/arcing.

15 heat per single volley means you will likely only be able to use one of them and have it not be much more effective than a standard PPC.

Given the choice, I think most players would take 2x Standard PPCs instead, but that choice won't be available to the clans because 20 pinpoint damage for 20 heat is better than 10 pinpoint and 5 spread for 15 heat.

Every spread energy weapon (laser families) has better heat efficiency than the IS PPC & ER PPC, damage spread is the drawback and efficiency is the gain (also DoT vs. FLD).

I think that design could be applied to Clan ER PPCs, since 1/3rd of the damage will spread (and would just be a slight down tweak of the heat per volley value, nothing massive).



While I agree that the Clan weapons shouldn't be overpowered, they do need to remain competitive though.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 08 June 2014 - 09:31 AM.