458 replies to this topic

[Zerberus]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

It is either no R&R as you want with an assigned mech, or any mech with R&R.



Any day and any mech you want. Lobby please. We can also ask PGI to prohibit your account to Adder only for 5 years. Shall we?

Only if you also agree to be limited to a Cicada for the next 5 years. You chose my mech, I choose yours, fair is fair, and yours is 5t heavier in accordance with the officially proposed "OMGCLANSARESOOOOPNERFNERFNERF" clan weight matching. Its not my problem that your merc corp is light on scout pilots and needs you to fill that role for a a while.

BTW, NOBODY in known space (that we know of) personally owned a stable filled with dozens, nay scores of mechs. So if you want lore, you can`t either, but have to take what your commanding officer orders you to. Such is life in any organized unit.

Essentially, the only ones with any actual freedom of mech choice would be lone wolves.. assuming they can even afford more than one

In lore it would be:

Clans /Houses: Assigned mech, no R+R
Merc Corps: usually assigned mech but there may be some freedom, partial R+R
Lone wolves: whatever they can affors with the meager payout they get, and pray that you can afford to repair it

Sounds unbelievably unnecessary, and more importantly totally awesome for the new player who will get his 8 m,illion cadet bonus siphoned away on rental fees and repairs... Andf then quit, like so many did back when we still had R+R because the way it was implemented it was an obvious P2W mechanic.

Edited by Zerberus, 10 June 2014 - 12:16 PM.

[Cimarb]

Sable Phoenix, on 09 June 2014 - 04:51 PM, said:

I'm sorry, no, this is unacceptable.

The whole point of having ammo-switching in LB-X ACs is to allow us to choose between cluster and SLUG fire, NOT between cluster and stream-fired. There is absolutely zero point in including the made-up, stop-gap "Clan AC" unless it fires a single, pinpoint-damage slug.

There is an alternative. If you're going to make Clan non-Ultra ACs fire in stream fire, then you need to convert the IS ACs to stream-fire weapons, like they should have been lore-wise from the start, anyway.

The level of fail here is absolutely mind-boggling.

As Walker already mentioned, Russ has already stated that making IS ACs work the same way is what they are looking at doing. They have to balance things first, but will then make them all work that way to one point or another. Ideally, that will mean manufacturer variants of every weapon to give everyone exactly the type of balanced weapon they want, from a BFG like the current AC20 to an awesome Gatling-style AC20 that will make Jesse Ventura cry in joy.

Sable Phoenix, on 09 June 2014 - 05:09 PM, said:

Pretty much all of this.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I recall them specifically saying they will not be doing that. The IS ACs are and will remain pinpoint slug-throwers, in spite of the lore inaccuracy and the inherent balancing it would lend to the game (just try to pop-tart that AC-5 when it's firing 3 slug bursts).

This decision is purely meant to "balance" the Clans against the Inner Sphere, rather than worrying about the balance of the game as a whole.

Nope, you are several months behind the information curve.

Butane9000, on 10 June 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Any chance we can get a video of clan weaponry in action?

The rumor is that they have one being released soon, but it will probably be next Monday, lol.

[Fastwind]

Ngamok, on 10 June 2014 - 11:55 AM, said:

Not sure I'd say gimping Gauss boating as currently only 1 variant of 1 chassis can do it and it's rarely seen doing it.

Dual Gauss Jager all variants
Dual Gauss Catapult K2 variant
Dual Gauss Cataphract Ilya muromets,CTF 3D,CTF 4X

[Cimarb]

Fastwind, on 10 June 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

Dual Gauss Jager all variants
Dual Gauss Catapult K2 variant
Dual Gauss Cataphract Ilya muromets,CTF 3D,CTF 4X

Ngamok meant the triple Gauss. Dual Gauss is unaffected by the new rules.

[Fastwind]

Cimarb, on 10 June 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

Ngamok meant the triple Gauss. Dual Gauss is unaffected by the new rules.

ok missunderstanding than
SRY

[JohnMCclane79]

YES CLAN Mech cant wait.
this is going to be the BEST

[Outlaw]

Personally would rather see Clan LRMs run with no minimum range, no arc and a maximum range of canon accurate 630 meters to give it a unique feel overall but meh, too many people would complain about the lack of fire support capability and what not.

[JohnMCclane79]

YES CLAN MECH.... this is going to be awesome

[Deadeye254]

Ok so I think I might to shed some light here I've been following this thread from the beginning a lot of you people seem to be confused. I think we are not complaining about the Guass or the CERPPC, I kind of like the way they did that but, when you add all this weapon balancing to the fact that you can't do anything but strip armor to gain tonnage for more weapons, when you add those together its too hard of a nerf to clans leaving us underpowered. Let me explain myself before you start talking about how well we will brawl or how more op our lasers and LRMs are, in the competitive 12mans there are only a handful of mechs you will see Highlander, Victor, Cataphract, Shadowhawk not gonna bother mentioning lights at this time. So the 1st thing you will notice is they all have JJs as we all know poptarts with a 30-35 pinpoint alpha dominate the comp play. So now we know what it takes to remain competitive on this game lets take a look at the clan mechs now, with the current clan weapons systems the only way to achieve a 30-35 pinpoint alpha is a Guass 2xCERPPC combo this is 24tons with at least 3 tons of ammo with it brings it up to 27tons. Now this has to be on a jump capable mech or its no go in comp play. With the Timber Wolf S which is the closest thing we will come to a meta poptart when you add the five JJs to the base locked chassis you are left with 22.5 tons, now that will be with 460 points of armor. The Cataphract that I run has 416 I think with Guass dual PPC 4 tons of ammo runs 76kph and has 3 JJs. So are you beginning to see the math here PGI now I am not saying you need a new approach on your weapons I like what you have done hear to be honest but, combined with our lack of customization ability I would have to drop my armor on my Timber Wolf S to 288 points of armor to achieve the tonnage I would need to run the meta that's what I call a glass cannon and will die quickly in a match against LOS or SJR even with the clan XL. Now I can see a real easy fix to this without major changes, allow us to remove JJs I can drop 3 JJs still having enough to poptart but gaining 3 tons then drop 1.5 tons of armor leaving me with 402 points still good on armor with the clan XL I still have survivability this will give me the 27tons I need to compete in my Timber Wolf S what I am saying here is leave the weapons the way you proposed them but give us a little more flexibility with our clan mechs and you will have the balance that we all(us and you )desire. Now I know that some of you are going to say the CERPPC is way to hot, my Cataphract has a 1.47 heat efficiency with PPC max Damage at 540m and of course the 90m minimum. Now the Timber Wolf S I described above will have a 1.31 heat efficiency how ever will have no min range, and do an additional 10 spread damage, and max damage range of 810m. Combined with the increased speed 89.1kph after speed tweak I think this will balance the lack of heat efficiency. Without a little more customize ability the best I could manage is a 25 pinpoint alpha which simply will not cut it against the best out there. Please read this and take from it what you need to truly balance clan mechs I am a lifer in the clans and a very good paying customer of yours, please do not disappoint me on my Iconic clan mechs that's all I am asking.

Edited by Deadeye254, 10 June 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Groundpound Devalis]

I realize "balance" was on the mind but these Nerfs to clan weaponry without "balance" to Innersphere is complete and total crap. Innersphere get more pinpoint, more customization, far fewer restrictions, and way way way cheaper.

Clan Omnimechs have a single pinpoint weapon... with a charge time(unless you include UACs which jam on a single shot which has never made sense to me. single shot was designed to not jam), aren't Omni, are more restricted than field mod rules for IS, LRMs designed to positively feed AMS accuracy (go go slow trickle makes sure every single missile gets popped) all that for a ridiculously inflated price.

Can I sit in on one of your jam sessions? I would really like to know how this was considered brilliant, acceptable, or even usable. It is a joke, UNLESS some balance is brought on the innersphere. Now if that is planned please let us know because until then it is just dumb.

[Cimarb]

Deadeye254, on 10 June 2014 - 03:27 PM, said:

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You lost me at the first missing punctuation, sorry.

[IraqiWalker]

Groundpound, on 10 June 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

Innersphere get more pinpoint, more customization,

Clan Omnimechs have a single pinpoint weapon... with a charge time(unless you include UACs which jam on a single shot which has never made sense to me. single shot was designed to not jam), aren't Omni, are more restricted

A lot of people keep repeating that point, and I completely disagree with it. Would you mind explaining to me why you think IS mechs mechs are more customizable?

[Cimarb]

IraqiWalker, on 10 June 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

A lot of people keep repeating that point, and I completely disagree with it. Would you mind explaining to me why you think IS mechs mechs are more customizable?

Because they don't understand how the Clan system works and instead fixate on the "locked" engine and crits.

[Deadeye254]

Sorry man typed It In a hurry no call to be mean about It trothkin after all we are suppose to be on the same team.

[Icewraith]

Very concerned about heat on the clan ER PPC with 1.4 DHS. Even with 2x criticals instead of 3x, there's only so much tonnage... especially since the Clan Omnis have their engine ratings fixed and endo/ferro are non-negotiable.

I mean.... the Warhawk Prime was already entirely capable of destroying itself if a forward thinking pilot didn't immediately jettison the LRM ammo in TT on round one.

I'm happy that the ER PPC will at least sort of do 15 damage, but that 15 heat with no 10 heat alternative under 1.4 DHS is going to really mess with Clan balance.

[IraqiWalker]

Icewraith, on 10 June 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

Very concerned about heat on the clan ER PPC with 1.4 DHS. Even with 2x criticals instead of 3x, there's only so much tonnage... especially since the Clan Omnis have their engine ratings fixed and endo/ferro are non-negotiable.

I mean.... the Warhawk Prime was already entirely capable of destroying itself if a forward thinking pilot didn't immediately jettison the LRM ammo in TT on round one.

I'm happy that the ER PPC will at least sort of do 15 damage, but that 15 heat with no 10 heat alternative under 1.4 DHS is going to really mess with Clan balance.

It's only 1.4 if you haven't elited the mech. DHS become basically true doubles with full elites, unless I made a math mistake somewhere.

[Alaskan Nobody]

IraqiWalker, on 10 June 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

It's only 1.4 if you haven't elited the mech. DHS become basically true doubles with full elites, unless I made a math mistake somewhere.

Slightly better actually - I do not remember the exact numbers, but Koniving has them (if I remember right)

Between the doubling of the two heat skills you get in effect 2.13 or the like for each instead of 1.4 or 2.0
(ask Koniving for the precise numbers)

[Cimarb]

Deadeye254, on 10 June 2014 - 05:36 PM, said:

Sorry man typed It In a hurry no call to be mean about It trothkin after all we are suppose to be on the same team.

No meanness intended. You will get a lot better response to your ideas if you make it easy for the reader, though.

Punctuation is imperative.

[Mcgral18]

Groundpound, on 10 June 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I realize "balance" was on the mind but these Nerfs to clan weaponry without "balance" to Innersphere is complete and total crap. Innersphere get more pinpoint, more customization, far fewer restrictions, and way way way cheaper.

Clan Omnimechs have a single pinpoint weapon... with a charge time(unless you include UACs which jam on a single shot which has never made sense to me. single shot was designed to not jam), aren't Omni, are more restricted than field mod rules for IS, LRMs designed to positively feed AMS accuracy (go go slow trickle makes sure every single missile gets popped) all that for a ridiculously inflated price.

Can I sit in on one of your jam sessions? I would really like to know how this was considered brilliant, acceptable, or even usable. It is a joke, UNLESS some balance is brought on the innersphere. Now if that is planned please let us know because until then it is just dumb.

Well, the level of OMGWTFBBQ spread firepower the clans can bring is pretty impressive, actually. 50 tonners with over 60 damage alpha strikes, 55 tons at 75 with homing missiles, 100 tonners that can choose an impressive 50 PP FLD+10 spread, or obscene amounts of dakka.

Even with longer beam times and spread damage...there is a threshold that spread damage will just annihilate precise damage. You can't spread damage on legs, and my Nova can strip the Victor's leg armor in a single alpha strike...then the MGs can begin. And that's only a 50 tonner! With a measly 16 tons of pod space.

Shar Wolf, on 10 June 2014 - 06:39 PM, said:

Slightly better actually - I do not remember the exact numbers, but Koniving has them (if I remember right)

Between the doubling of the two heat skills you get in effect 2.13 or the like for each instead of 1.4 or 2.0
(ask Koniving for the precise numbers)

From my calculations, 15 DHS gives you slightly higher than TT DHS dissipation, while 20 gives you slightly less.

I think it was 3.91 compared to 4 for the 20. You can do the math easily enough for any amount of heatsinks.

Each engine heatsink is 0.2 dissipation, each outside is 0.14. Likewise, 2.0 capacity and 1.4 capacity.

When you get all the elite efficiencies, you get a 15% cooling bonus (times 1.15) and a 20% heat capacity bonus (*1.2) and you'll get your final values.

[MountainCopper]

Quote

Now it is understood that this has been a requested feature for the IS PPC for a long time, but this mechanic was needed to help curb the sheer OP power of the Clan ER-PPC to help us keep Clan tech somewhat in-line with the IS tech already in the game.

Requested for a long time AND we still kind of need it. In a game state where 7 out of 10 Lights carry a PPC for simplicity, and a double PPC Cicada "works very well" against Heavies and Assaults, we need it.

So many other example builds which incorporate PPCs as primary weapons solely for the advantage of pinpoint damage over beam weapons, the rest of the armament is just for "when the enemy gets too close", and we couldn't get this kind of nerf to this pinpoint mechanic (at least for the energy projectile weapons) months ago? Why not?

You plan on 33% of the Clan ER PPC damage to be adjacent component damage. So, what held you back all this time to introduce a damage distribution to the IS PPCs?

• A 30% damage spread would equal 7 damage to the component hit and 1.5 damage for two adjacent components.
  
• Or a 25% spread resulting in 7.5 damage to the component hit and 2.5 damage for one adjacent component.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 10 June 2014 - 10:32 PM.