458 replies to this topic

[Vanguard319]

Smoke Jagaur MAX, on 13 June 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

After using the ERPPC in the Beta Test Server yesterday. It is useful in pairs, however in 3 or more like the Prime Warhawk seemed to be the weakest mech in the game, because it lacks the damage to equalize against C-UAC5s. This is because of the lack of 15 direct damage and true 2.0 double heat sinks. Please keep this in mind. That possibly making it fair against IS may have made it crappy against other Clan Mechs breaking my fave build in all of MechWarrior. Everyother mech game that build is playable and strong in. On the IS side one can run 2 PPCs and 2ERPPCs to fix this on a BattleMaster. A Clan Mech can't do this...

It also hurts any other clan mech that uses PPCs as main weapons. (Summoner Prime, Adder Prime, and the Hellbringer Prime whenever we get it) I can understand PGI wanting to balance out weapons to keep IS mechs competitive, but there was no reason not to make the CERPPC pinpoint, considering clan U/ACs are all burst fire. It would have also given the clans an energy weapon that can put out reliable damage in one punch, the 15 damage wouldn't matter too much, as the IS would still have their pinpoint Autocannons, some of which surpass the damage of even the CERPPC.

I would also point out that in a few years, the IS starts closing the technology gap, getting new weapons like the Light Gauss rifle, which matches the clan Gauss in tonnage, while still having decent dmg, new upgrades like Light Engines, and new armor like light/heavy FF, stealth, and reflective/reactive. The most likely first new Clan weapon we see anytime soon will be Advanced Tactical Missiles, and likely only if PGI resolves the ammo flexibility issues with the LBX ACs.

[IraqiWalker]

Vanguard319, on 13 June 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

It also hurts any other clan mech that uses PPCs as main weapons. (Summoner Prime, Adder Prime, and the Hellbringer Prime whenever we get it) I can understand PGI wanting to balance out weapons to keep IS mechs competitive, but there was no reason not to make the CERPPC pinpoint, considering clan U/ACs are all burst fire. It would have also given the clans an energy weapon that can put out reliable damage in one punch, the 15 damage wouldn't matter too much, as the IS would still have their pinpoint Autocannons, some of which surpass the damage of even the CERPPC.

I would also point out that in a few years, the IS starts closing the technology gap, getting new weapons like the Light Gauss rifle, which matches the clan Gauss in tonnage, while still having decent dmg, new upgrades like Light Engines, and new armor like light/heavy FF, stealth, and reflective/reactive. The most likely first new Clan weapon we see anytime soon will be Advanced Tactical Missiles, and likely only if PGI resolves the ammo flexibility issues with the LBX ACs.

The community has been asking for splash damage on PPCs for a LOOOOOOOOONG time. As for heat, remember, the clan mechs aren't even elited yet, so the DHS is sub-optimal right now.

[Fastwind]

IraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

You're talking about 1LRM5. Have you never had to deal with a 6LRM5 catapult? The test has shown that even in stream mode, an LRM 10 will go through 2 AMS. Not even 3 AMS can shoot down all 10 missiles from one LRM 10. That goes for both IS and Clan LRM10s.

I don't know what game you are playing but no lrm 10 volley and no 6lrm 5 cplt-a1 chain firing ever dmg my jester until i ran out of ammo.

[Gorgo7]

The Fuhrer has been demanding PPC splash damage for a LOOOOOOOONG time. As for heat, remember that ERPPC's are very low in heat. Yes low...like AC's and machine-guns.

[IraqiWalker]

Fastwind, on 13 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I don't know what game you are playing but no lrm 10 volley and no 6lrm 5 cplt-a1 chain firing ever dmg my jester until i ran out of ammo.

Have you played this game within the last decade? 6LRM5s will overwhelm any AMS system. Unless you have 4 or so of them working together, you will be swamped. Honestly, go into a private drop and have one of your friends slap you with a troll-pult, and see how long your Jester can last once he has lock on you, and how many missiles will go through your twin AMS (answer: A LOT)

Gorgo7, on 13 June 2014 - 04:53 PM, said:

The Fuhrer has been demanding PPC splash damage for a LOOOOOOOONG time. As for heat, remember that ERPPC's are very low in heat. Yes low...like AC's and machine-guns.

I honestly look forward to the day when you post something that is actually useful, or contribute anything to the conversation. Have you ever played TT? ERPPCs are anything but low heat. Honestly, how do you get something like that so wrong!?

[Alaskan Nobody]

IraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

Have you played this game within the last decade? 6LRM5s will overwhelm any AMS system. Unless you have 4 or so of them working together, you will be swamped.

I have several times watched an LRM5 volley eaten by a single AMS
I have several times watched an LRM5 volley get through 3 AMS

It is not a consistent thing.

[IraqiWalker]

Shar Wolf, on 13 June 2014 - 05:01 PM, said:

I have several times watched an LRM5 volley eaten by a single AMS
I have several times watched an LRM5 volley get through 3 AMS

It is not a consistent thing.

It's pretty consistent from what I've noticed. 1 AMS destroys 2 missiles per second, 2 destroy 4, and so on and so forth. However, the missile speed is what changed. When missiles were moving slower an LRM 5 couldn't go through 1 AMS system, however, with the faster missile speeds now, an lrm 5 salvo can sneak one maybe 2 missiles through a solitary AMS. With a 6LRM5 torrential rain shower, 2, even 3 AMS will be overwhelmed.

Movement of the launching mech, the targeted mech, and the velocity of the targeted mech. Those factors all impact also how many missiles will hit, if any.

I'm not disagreeing with you Shar, just pointing out a possibility for why they seem inconsistent.

[Alaskan Nobody]

IraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

I'm not disagreeing with you Shar, just pointing out a possibility for why they seem inconsistent.

I had actually meant to mention some of that

Yet at the same time - due to those, you cannot entirely write off the other guys position either.
(was the big point of my previous post)

[Heffay]

IraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

It's pretty consistent from what I've noticed. 1 AMS destroys 2 missiles per second, 2 destroy 4, and so on and so forth. However, the missile speed is what changed. When missiles were moving slower an LRM 5 couldn't go through 1 AMS system, however, with the faster missile speeds now, an lrm 5 salvo can sneak one maybe 2 missiles through a solitary AMS. With a 6LRM5 torrential rain shower, 2, even 3 AMS will be overwhelmed.

Movement of the launching mech, the targeted mech, and the velocity of the targeted mech. Those factors all impact also how many missiles will hit, if any.

I'm not disagreeing with you Shar, just pointing out a possibility for why they seem inconsistent.

Add the AMS range module and the AMS damage buff module.... And the 1 missile on the LRM 50 that gets through really isn't a problem.

[Cimarb]

Heffay, on 13 June 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Add the AMS range module and the AMS damage buff module.... And the 1 missile on the LRM 50 that gets through really isn't a problem.

Usage of the AMS and associated modules will obviously affect LRMs effectiveness, but I can assure you that the ripple-fire of the Clan LRMs does not hurt them much compared to the IS LRMs. My LRM50 TWolf found plenty of impacts to satisfy it.

[Reno Blade]

In theory, a dual AMS should be able to shot down 5 missiles per second with 120m AMS range (and 128m with range module).
It's 120m, right? I'm still getting confused by the 240m max range from smurfy...
Check the column/row for ams range (here 120m) and missile speed (here LRM 160m/s ).

[IraqiWalker]

Reno Blade, on 14 June 2014 - 01:04 AM, said:

In theory, a dual AMS should be able to shot down 5 missiles per second with 120m AMS range (and 128m with range module).
It's 120m, right? I'm still getting confused by the 240m max range from smurfy...
Check the column/row for ams range (here 120m) and missile speed (here LRM 160m/s ).

Wow, thanks for the graph. It also helps prove what I was saying about 2 AMS being incapable of stopping a 6LRM5 catapult. I think AMS range is 240. I think it also does max damage even at max range.

[Reno Blade]

If AMS is only 120, then you would need to consider the flight time of the volley and next volley.
If your second volley (or second LRM5) is inside the range before the first got shot down, this volley would have lower time getting shot, because the ams is still "busy" with the first.


It takes about 0.75 seconds for a LRM to go from 120m to 0 meter (or double if AMS is 240m).
DPS of the AMS is 3.5damage/second.

Lets take 2 AMS with 120m range for the example.
If we chainfire LRM5 with 0.5 sec chainfire interval.

The first 5 missile will need roughly the full 120m to get destroyed (see first graph)

The second 5 missiles (fired 0.5 sec later) are already 0.25sec in the range of the AMS without beeing shot, due to the first volley still getting hit.
The remaining 0.5 seconds for the voley inside the AMS is about 2/3 of the time and 2/3 of the distance, so about 2/3 of the missiles will get destroyed.

As the chainfire intervall stays at 0.5 seconds, the second volley calculation reapeats itself and 1/3 of the missiles should get through.

The same would be true for 1 AMS with 240m range.
If you had double AMS with 240m range, you would need an LRM10 volley for the same 1/3 effect.

I hope this helps.
As I said, I'm not really sure if AMS is 120 or 240, but I let you guys test it out.

[Firemage]

I've been away awhile and my GTX460 died so playing mwo is quite a pain on my backup card. But most of these ideas make me feel good about trying to get back in once i get a newer gpu.

But question, why not just have the single LBX unit count as 2 weapons? That share a CD and have 2 diffrent ammo types.


-G

[Pjwned]

I can understand not wanting mechs with 4 gauss rifles firing at the same time, but while you're messing around with them they should also get a longer charging window to hold the shot, say 2 seconds or 2.5 seconds instead of 1.25 seconds which is barely any time.

[IraqiWalker]

Firemage, on 14 June 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

I've been away awhile and my GTX460 died so playing mwo is quite a pain on my backup card. But most of these ideas make me feel good about trying to get back in once i get a newer gpu.

But question, why not just have the single LBX unit count as 2 weapons? That share a CD and have 2 diffrent ammo types.


-G

The architecture they are using isn't allowing them to switch between ammo types, yet. Watch the Dev Vlog#4

[Firemage]

IraqiWalker, on 14 June 2014 - 05:59 PM, said:

The architecture they are using isn't allowing them to switch between ammo types, yet. Watch the Dev Vlog#4

Ah, i ment something more along the lines of one weapon generating 2 enties on our weapon list when we drop.

Ex -
Weapon Mode 1 xxxx ammo
Weapon mode 2 yyyy ammo

But i well get tech limitations.

-G

[Ramsess]

I find Splash damage to adjacent parts a bad idea, it makes torso twisting to take arm dmg or spread dmg when out of armor pointless.

Just my 2 cents...

[IraqiWalker]

Ramsess, on 15 June 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

I find Splash damage to adjacent parts a bad idea, it makes torso twisting to take arm dmg or spread dmg when out of armor pointless.

Just my 2 cents...

Well, it's either that, or you lose that arm with two shots, instead of 3

[Shredhead]

CGauß + CERPPC, boating CUAC5/10, CSRM6, CERSL and CMPL are completely OP and beyond manageable with ghost heat!
Having no drawback to losing a side torso with XL engine makes mechs completely OP!
Being able to carry 2-3 times the amount of firepower of an IS mech without even slight heat problems is completely effed up!

You knew all this from the beginning and did jack **** about it!