36 replies to this topic

[Octavian]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Oddly, the most simple thing to have done was to have matches be all clan vs IS, leave all clan tech exactly the same as TT (adjusted for MWO rules), and merely have matches consist of 3 IS lances (12 players) vs 2 clan stars (10 mechs). Balance achieved.

I'm gonna be running clan mechs outside of League games, and even I don't want to see that. 12v10 with real clantech is in no way balanced.

[ScarecrowES]

Diablobo, on 08 June 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

The Clans are going to completely break the hardpoint system that PGI is attempting to implement. Either that, or they are going to have to completely break the Clans. Not only are the clans getting a big time screw over with weapons and engine nerfs, they are getting the biggest nerf of all to the pods.

What annoys me most of all, and what will ultimately decide how this whole clan thing works out in the end, is just how much more customizable (and therefore optimizible) IS mechs are than clan mechs. You can change out omnipods, but we don't yet know to what extent... but very little else. You can't change structure or armor types, engine type or rating, fixed equipment or weapons, fixed armor or structure locations... even heat sinks are suspect (you may or may not be able to move those around, or even use open engine slots when upgrading). However, you can do all these things to IS mechs, even if it breaks lore. Of course, this leads to an IS mech being able to mount a number and type of weapons that ordinarily couldn't exist on that mech, while clan mechs are already limited and fundementally unalterable from the get-go.

It's really kinda backwards.

[ScarecrowES]

Vassago Rain, on 08 June 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Okay, I will explain this to you.

You think there will be fluffy pods, or some advanced system. There won't be.

You'll simply buy a daishi-X arms and put them on your founder daishi, and a daishi-Y left torso. In essence, your mechs are all mister potato head.

Nothing in this game is advanced, has ever been advanced, or will be advanced, but we have tons of legos and potato head spares for all gundams.

I'm going based on PGI's own description of how they intend to implement pods. They describe a system where you will have a piece of equipment in your inventory, no different than any other inventory item, and a slot in the mech chassis that you drag and drop that into. So by that description, we're dragging the "2 energy slot" omnipod from variant x into the open omnipod slot in variant y. How that actually translates in-game, we have no idea, sadly.

Octavian, on 08 June 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'm gonna be running clan mechs outside of League games, and even I don't want to see that. 12v10 with real clantech is in no way balanced.

still too favorable to the clan side, you think?

[Vassago Rain]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I'm going based on PGI's own description of how they intend to implement pods. They describe a system where you will have a piece of equipment in your inventory, no different than any other inventory item, and a slot in the mech chassis that you drag and drop that into. So by that description, we're dragging the "2 energy slot" omnipod from variant x into the open omnipod slot in variant y. How that actually translates in-game, we have no idea, sadly.



still too favorable to the clan side, you think?

The UI doesn't support that, and the whole term 'pods' is just them tricking you - again. It'll be a simple swap of left torso for a different left torso.

Were you not paying attention for the past two years?

[Diablobo]

If, for example, there are five omni pods on a Timber Wolf- the CT has 1 slot, the RA and LA have 7 slots, and the RT and LT have 7 slots, then each pod should be able to fit whatever equipment or weaponry can go in those slots. Being able to swap pods between variants will be nice, but that brings into question the idea of unlocking experience for 3 different variants of the same chassis. The chassis will all be completely the same, so why have three unlocks? Why even have three variants at all? Just buy one chassis and multiple pods, not multiple chassis. There is zero reason to buy three Omnimechs of the same chassis.

Edited by Diablobo, 08 June 2014 - 12:25 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Because you grind experience on your CTs, which can't be altered at all, and you need three CTs mastered, or your mech is inferior.That's why there will be no 'pods,' and simply a frankenstein monster generator for swapping bodyparts around.



PODS!

[ScarecrowES]

Vassago Rain, on 08 June 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Because you grind experience on your CTs, which can't be altered at all, and you need three CTs mastered, or your mech is inferior.That's why there will be no 'pods,' and simply a frankenstein monster generator for swapping bodyparts around.

Unfortunately, we don't yet know how different the other variants will be from the Prime. PGI has said that the variant CT is the basis for the xp system and can't be changed. That includes most of your base traits of the mech, including the engine, structure and armor types, etc. But it also includes the type and location of fixed items. If your base ct includes 4 additional heat sinks, and fixes one each in the RA, RT, LT, and LA, then no matter what omnipod you put on the mech, that HS will always be in that location, along with any other fixed structure, equipment, armor, weapons, etc. This is why we can't say you're simply running Mr. Potato Head mech. Changing omnipods doesn't change any other CT-defined items that may also be in the location of the omnipod.

But as far as whether or not we're going to get a variety of engine/structure/armor/equipment configs with each variant of a chassis PGI has been mum on. Just briefly looking over Sarna, it seems unlikely that the CT configs will vary much. You certainly won't see the breadth of possibilities we see in IS mechs, though. I have 3 Ravens right now with engine ratings from 210 to 280. Hell, I have 4 Catapults with engines ranging from 260 to 350. All of those are rocking Endo-steel, but only one is rocking Ferro-fibrous. None of the builds would be possible if I couldn't change from the base engine/structure/armor/sink config the chassis originally came with.

[Vassago Rain]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

Unfortunately, we don't yet know how different the other variants will be from the Prime. PGI has said that the variant CT is the basis for the xp system and can't be changed. That includes most of your base traits of the mech, including the engine, structure and armor types, etc. But it also includes the type and location of fixed items. If your base ct includes 4 additional heat sinks, and fixes one each in the RA, RT, LT, and LA, then no matter what omnipod you put on the mech, that HS will always be in that location, along with any other fixed structure, equipment, armor, weapons, etc. This is why we can't say you're simply running Mr. Potato Head mech. Changing omnipods doesn't change any other CT-defined items that may also be in the location of the omnipod.

But as far as whether or not we're going to get a variety of engine/structure/armor/equipment configs with each variant of a chassis PGI has been mum on. Just briefly looking over Sarna, it seems unlikely that the CT configs will vary much. You certainly won't see the breadth of possibilities we see in IS mechs, though. I have 3 Ravens right now with engine ratings from 210 to 280. Hell, I have 4 Catapults with engines ranging from 260 to 350. All of those are rocking Endo-steel, but only one is rocking Ferro-fibrous. None of the builds would be possible if I couldn't change from the base engine/structure/armor/sink config the chassis originally came with.

I can tell you one thing for certain.

You will be disappointed.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 08 June 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Vassago Rain, on 08 June 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

I can tell you one thing for certain.

You will be disappointed.

After today, I'm very pessimistic about the upcoming clan expansion. I hope in this case that my "disappointment" will actually mean I'm pleasantly surprised by the actual results.

[OneEyed Jack]

What this thread needs is

And lots of it.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 08 June 2014 - 02:18 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

OneEyed Jack, on 08 June 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

What this thread needs is

And lots of it.

you'd need the whine to go with that cheese, if i've got your intent right

[Kassatsu]

Chances are a pod will have a set number of hardpoints (completely ignoring the actual internal space). So for an Adder prime right arm, one energy hardpoint. Doesn't matter how many crit slots it has left after you throw a medium laser in it. That's all you get for weapons on it.

From my understanding, you'd be able to throw a heat sink in there as well, if space permits. CT and legs will likely be fixed (possibly head too?), and can't be changed (excluding possibly a weapon in the CT... UAC2 on a T-wolf CT lawl).

That's also of course not counting that FF and endo slots will be fixed, I'm assuming which is used is tied to the CT, and the placement is based on that CT as well. Let's say it stick 4 slots in your right torso, but you have a weapon that takes 9 from another variant? Too bad.

8 != 9. Math is hard guys.

Edited by Kassatsu, 08 June 2014 - 06:08 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Kassatsu, on 08 June 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

Chances are a pod will have a set number of hardpoints (completely ignoring the actual internal space). So for an Adder prime right arm, one energy hardpoint. Doesn't matter how many crit slots it has left after you throw a medium laser in it. That's all you get for weapons on it.

From my understanding, you'd be able to throw a heat sink in there as well, if space permits. CT and legs will likely be fixed (possibly head too?), and can't be changed (excluding possibly a weapon in the CT... UAC2 on a T-wolf CT lawl).

That's also of course not counting that FF and endo slots will be fixed, I'm assuming which is used is tied to the CT, and the placement is based on that CT as well. Let's say it stick 4 slots in your right torso, but you have a weapon that takes 9 from another variant? Too bad.

8 != 9. Math is hard guys.

By and large that all seems to be right. I've looked over some of the configs we're expected to get, and interesting possibilities are certainly there. For instance, taking the left and right torso from the TW S and putting them on the prime gives you a largely symmetrical mech with 2 energy in each arm, a one-slot ballistic in the ct, and one ballistic and 2 10-tube missiles in each torso with an energy on one side for giggles. The resulting build I had put an ERLL and ERML in each arm, a LRM15 in each side torso, 3 MGs (one in each torso), AMS, and a TAG laser to boot, with plenty of ammo. Realistically, though, as versatile as that would be, it ends up being too many groups to be manageable, I think.

I can get some decent symmetrical builds from the Nova and Storm Crow. I can also fix up the War hawk prime to be viable. But having a hard time making a non missilier variant to my liking there. Dire wolf is hilariously customisable. This is the one I think will break the whole clan pack. Its just too easy.

[Kilo 40]

Diablobo, on 08 June 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

It makes zero sense that the IS mechs can swap out engines and endo or FF, but Clans cannot.

why? That's the way they were originally designed. It's not PGIs doing.

[Diablobo]

Kilo 40, on 08 June 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

why? That's the way they were originally designed. It's not PGIs doing.

Yes, and they were originally designed to be able to fit whatever they want in their pod space. But you know we can't have all the cryhards having a stroke because things got too real.

Edited by Diablobo, 08 June 2014 - 08:09 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

ScarecrowES, on 08 June 2014 - 05:28 PM, said:

you'd need the whine to go with that cheese, if i've got your intent right

Already drowning in it, thanks.

[Kilo 40]

Diablobo, on 08 June 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Yes

so why are you complaining again?