8 replies to this topic

[ProtoformX]

I think you guys might like this one. As you may know, this game supports analog turning. All that means is, if you use an analog joystick for turning, you can control the speed of your turn depending on how far you push the stick from side-to-side. With a keyboard, it's literally all or nothing; key up, or key down.

I've attempted to use a throttle with an analog stick for the thumb, but there wasn't enough buttons. I was even considering buying a Logitech G13 for it's analog thumb stick, but found reviews of the ergonomics and key mushiness unfavorable(I'm used to mechanical keys). Even more extreme; I've tried rudder pedals, which seemed like a great idea in theory, but in practice they were unwieldy to say the least. So far I've been unsuccessful in finding a worthy option. My keyboard is just so nice, I refuse to give up using it for a separate peripheral!

So I started going a bit crazy trying to come up with a home-brew solution. Last night I was rolling through parts catalogs looking for thumb joysticks seeing if I could find one small enough to fit on my keyboard palm rest. I figured I could just build my own little contraption. As I was searching, I came across the Logitech Dual Action replacement main board with two analog sticks, which was very compact. Just by looking at the fully-assembled controller, you'd think the insides were huge. but there's just big plastic stand-offs holding up the buttons.

I remembered I had one of these old controllers sitting in a box on a shelf, so I dusted it off and tore it down. I removed all the casing, buttons, and then de-soldered the capacitor from the bottom and moved it to the top so I could have a smooth mounting surface on the bottom. I ran down to the home depot and grabbed some rubber lining electrical tape and some nice Velcro adhesive pads. I wrapped the PCB in the rubber tape, which looks just fine in my opinion. The end product work great, and is easy for the wife to remove if I forget to take it off after my gaming sessions.

As a bonus, I get to remap my A and D keys since I no longer need them. The other analog stick can also be used, though I haven't found a practical application for it. Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this; here's some pictures:

[Mr Weedy]

Nice, awesome and unique design. Very clever. I have never even thought about using my thumb to work an analog stick. Very nice and I suppose it's also very natural and easy to work with your thumb.

[Mystere]

ProtoformX, on 08 June 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

I've attempted to use a throttle with an analog stick for the thumb, but there wasn't enough buttons. I was even considering buying a Logitech G13 for it's analog thumb stick, but found reviews of the ergonomics and key mushiness unfavorable(I'm used to mechanical keys). Even more extreme; I've tried rudder pedals, which seemed like a great idea in theory, but in practice they were unwieldy to say the least. So far I've been unsuccessful in finding a worthy option. My keyboard is just so nice, I refuse to give up using it for a separate peripheral!

As someone who has been using a G13 for years now and can no longer imagine playing with just a keyboard again, I'm suggesting you ignore those reviewers.

[evilC]

I have to concur that the ergonomics of the G13 thumbstick are not great due to the pointed tip - it's all to easy for your thumb to slip off the stick.

However, I fixed this on my G13 with some Sugru. Simply mould yourself a new top for the thumbstick that has a cup in it - also the sugru is softer and has more friction than the hard plastic of the default G13 stick.

[Mystere]

evilC, on 09 May 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

I have to concur that the ergonomics of the G13 thumbstick are not great due to the pointed tip - it's all to easy for your thumb to slip off the stick.

However, I fixed this on my G13 with some Sugru. Simply mould yourself a new top for the thumbstick that has a cup in it - also the sugru is softer and has more friction than the hard plastic of the default G13 stick.

I was thinking about using a pencil eraser in case I again wear out the tip of the thumbstick, but your suggestion has much more merit.

Edited by Mystere, 09 May 2016 - 12:14 PM.

[Ebynfel]

The Razer line has the Tartarus, and formerly the Nostromo with analog sticks. I used to use the G13, and loved that the G13 has more buttons. But I, alas, have tny hands, and find the ergonomics of the Razer gear to be amazing. YMMV but the G13 was an excellent device when I was using it and I loved it. The Tartarus just fits my hand much better. There's also the Orbweaver? I think that's it's name, o nthe higher end of the spectrum. Not sure how it differs from Tartarus aside from costing a bit more.

[evilC]

One thing I don't like about the G13 is that the WSAD keys are on the top row (These keys have a dimple)
This makes it uncomfortable to hit the bottom row.

The razer layout with them on the middle two rows looks better.

[Mystere]

evilC, on 29 June 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

One thing I don't like about the G13 is that the WSAD keys are on the top row (These keys have a dimple)
This makes it uncomfortable to hit the bottom row.

The razer layout with them on the middle two rows looks better.

Is there any particular reason why you did not use the G13 thumb stick for WSAD? When I got my first G13, I thought that was the natural purpose.

[evilC]

The G13 thumbstick, like all gamepad analog thumbsticks, has a round range of motion, not square.

Therefore, if you map it to speed / turning then you cannot change speed AT ALL when you are turning at max rate, and you cannot turn AT ALL while changing speed at max rate.
That's if you use relative throttle for the speed, which blows hard. If you use absolute mode for speed, then while your mech is moving at max speed, you cannot turn AT ALL.

Also, using the same stick for speed and turning (ie you move the same object for turn and speed, just in a different axis) then you get "bleed through" - you go to change speed a little bit, and unintentionally turn.

Therefore, a thumbstick is totally unsuitable for controlling speed and turning.

I use the throttle unit from a T-Flight Hotas X in my left hand (Mouse in right). This allows me to use the throttle to control speed and the rudder rocker to control turning, with full (Square) range of motion for the axes, and no bleed-through.

TL;DR: Yeah, they probably did intend for it to be used this way, but unfortunately they are clueless.
Razer is possibly more clued up, which is why their thumb device is a d-pad. You lose analog movement, but can properly hit the diagonals.

Edited by evilC, 30 June 2016 - 01:25 AM.