You people are having difficulty understanding this... lrms are generally fine, however they have they also have the most supporting and counter equipment/modules. The logical implication of this is that when all supporting modules are present and with no counters on the enemy team, it will be SIGNIFICANTLY stronger (bordering on overpowered) than when no counters or support are present on either side. The other side of this is that when all counters are present and no support then they are significantly weaker, bordering on useless. What I want is for the scale to be shortened such that the weapon system is never useless or bordering overpowered except for certain rare team compositions (like 3 triple AMS ECM kitfoxes and the rest of the team with ECM or double AMS).
The perfect changes for them in my head are this:
ECM needs to stop preventing target locks and instead just prevents detailed target info then maybe tweak the lock-on speed reduction + or -,
radar deprivation changed to 33-50% reduction in lock on decay time or removed,
target decay should never be able to exceed ~1.5-2 seconds baseline ideally should scale with how long the LOS is held this would allow for missile speed increases without causing significant balance concerns like before when just getting a lock-on meant the missiles would hit you before the lock-on decayed (could be dependant on target information ie. just the target decays in ~1 sec but targets with detailed info take the full duration to decay,)
lrms need to be given the streak treatment and have groups of 5 lrms targets random "bones" on the mech,
lrms impulse and smoke reduction so it doesn't blind and give the victim parkinson's until they find cover while also lagging out the fps,
accuracy or spread nerf (nothing huge) to indirect fire outside of spotting equipment,
I'ld like the lrm descent angle reduced so more cover can be classified as lrm-safe especially on maps like caustic
obviously those numbers could be tweaked but i just want to make lrms less punishing for simple positioning "mistakes" ie. if you are in a DWF and you have to stop and turn around in order to get to cover you will be hit by 3+ volleys of N missiles where N is the total sum of lrm launchers within a 3.14 km^2 circle around your mech.
You people are having difficulty understanding this... lrms are generally fine, however they have they also have the most supporting and counter equipment/modules. The logical implication of this is that when all supporting modules are present and with no counters on the enemy team, it will be SIGNIFICANTLY stronger (bordering on overpowered) than when no counters or support are present on either side. The other side of this is that when all counters are present and no support then they are significantly weaker, bordering on useless. What I want is for the scale to be shortened such that the weapon system is never useless or bordering overpowered except for certain rare team compositions (like 3 triple AMS ECM kitfoxes and the rest of the team with ECM or double AMS).
The perfect changes for them in my head are this:
ECM needs to stop preventing target locks and instead just prevents detailed target info then maybe tweak the lock-on speed reduction + or -,
radar deprivation changed to 33-50% reduction in lock on decay time or removed,
target decay should never be able to exceed ~1.5-2 seconds baseline ideally should scale with how long the LOS is held this would allow for missile speed increases without causing significant balance concerns like before when just getting a lock-on meant the missiles would hit you before the lock-on decayed (could be dependant on target information ie. just the target decays in ~1 sec but targets with detailed info take the full duration to decay,)
lrms need to be given the streak treatment and have groups of 5 lrms targets random "bones" on the mech,
lrms impulse and smoke reduction so it doesn't blind and give the victim parkinson's until they find cover while also lagging out the fps,
accuracy or spread nerf (nothing huge) to indirect fire outside of spotting equipment,
I'ld like the lrm descent angle reduced so more cover can be classified as lrm-safe especially on maps like caustic
obviously those numbers could be tweaked but i just want to make lrms less punishing for simple positioning "mistakes" ie. if you are in a DWF and you have to stop and turn around in order to get to cover you will be hit by 3+ volleys of N missiles where N is the total sum of lrm launchers within a 3.14 km^2 circle around your mech.
First indent your paragraphs so they're actually legible. Some of us like to drink as we read the forum. (the best way to enjoy all QQN)
Second: even with the supporting modules... Target Decay and that's it they are still vastly inferior to MWO's Real Weapons, and even MWO's Secondary Weapons. (Subpar to PPCs, GR and ACs, Subpar to Lasers, SRMS and Streaks) Unless your opposition are part of Team Derp.
Most of the time you don't even need to roll with ECM, or AMS to bring down an entire lance and a half of mechs carrying LRM30 or better each. 6 mechs all armed with LRM30+ several others armed with Tag and Narc and look at the W/L over 9 games in my example.
LRM Impulse and smoke doesn't actually change the direction your mech is facing, nor does it even impede your targeting crosshairs. heaven forbid MWO requires it's players to have something called fire discipline and self control!
LRM hit locations are Fine as they are. For one their hit rate over all is deplorable, particularly when a target is moving laterally to incoming missiles, and is torso twisting about.
Even on Caustic Valley, which is a garbage map for multitudes of reasons, LRM boats can and are capable of being dispatched as long as your team doesn't turn into Team Derp.
LRMs are barely punishing in this game. 99 percent of the time, if you start taking steel rain, you can do some torso twisting, and mosey on back into cover while taking minimal damage. If you're used to evading incoming fire from PPCs GR and Autocannons, guess what? You're more than qualified for evading LRM fire. Actually, you're in Overkill territory. LRMs kill targets far too slowly, to be worth their tonnage, even without considerations of cover, ECM, AMS, Radar Derp. Precision weapons, and even secondary brawling weapons will end a mech faster than a team of LRM boats can.
You people are having difficulty understanding this... lrms are generally fine, however they have they also have the most supporting and counter equipment/modules. The logical implication of this is that when all supporting modules are present and with no counters on the enemy team, it will be SIGNIFICANTLY stronger (bordering on overpowered) than when no counters or support are present on either side. The other side of this is that when all counters are present and no support then they are significantly weaker, bordering on useless. What I want is for the scale to be shortened such that the weapon system is never useless or bordering overpowered except for certain rare team compositions (like 3 triple AMS ECM kitfoxes and the rest of the team with ECM or double AMS).
The perfect changes for them in my head are this:
ECM needs to stop preventing target locks and instead just prevents detailed target info then maybe tweak the lock-on speed reduction + or -,
radar deprivation changed to 33-50% reduction in lock on decay time or removed,
target decay should never be able to exceed ~1.5-2 seconds baseline ideally should scale with how long the LOS is held this would allow for missile speed increases without causing significant balance concerns like before when just getting a lock-on meant the missiles would hit you before the lock-on decayed (could be dependant on target information ie. just the target decays in ~1 sec but targets with detailed info take the full duration to decay,)
lrms need to be given the streak treatment and have groups of 5 lrms targets random "bones" on the mech,
lrms impulse and smoke reduction so it doesn't blind and give the victim parkinson's until they find cover while also lagging out the fps,
accuracy or spread nerf (nothing huge) to indirect fire outside of spotting equipment,
I'ld like the lrm descent angle reduced so more cover can be classified as lrm-safe especially on maps like caustic
obviously those numbers could be tweaked but i just want to make lrms less punishing for simple positioning "mistakes" ie. if you are in a DWF and you have to stop and turn around in order to get to cover you will be hit by 3+ volleys of N missiles where N is the total sum of lrm launchers within a 3.14 km^2 circle around your mech.
I definitely agree with ECM not being a hard counter and effectively shutting off 2 different weapon systems on top of all the other stuff it does, and the impulse on LRMs is definitely out of hand.
You people are having difficulty understanding this... lrms are generally fine,
They're not, though. They're weak.
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however they have they also have the most supporting and counter equipment/modules.
Oh do tell, what is on this list of supporting modules and equipment? There's tag and narc, which you are generally only ever going to see 1 of (as opposed to both). I guess there's Artemis,... and... ? What? UAVs? Because you just see those EVERYWHERE, mirite?
OTOH there are the AMS moduleS, ECM which flat out negates the ability to even use LRMs at any reasonable range unless you or a helpful teammate is using tag, the Radar Derp module, THE ABILITY TO MOVE A FEW STEPS BACKWARDS AND TO ONE SIDE, entire map sections designed to make you invincible to LRMs (hello HPG!), all sorts of terrain features, caves, etc... etc...
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The logical implication of this is that when all supporting modules are present and with no counters on the enemy team,
So never. Okay. I guess we can consider a hypothetical for the purpose of discussion.
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it will be SIGNIFICANTLY stronger
I guess.
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(bordering on overpowered)
If I wanted to be EXTREMELY... no... INSANELY charitable, i could say that they would be overpowerING to the derpiest, the herpiest, the most incompetent of players.
Hell, you don't even need a full set of fingers to be able to handle LRMs unless you have gotten caught waaaaay out in the open on... say... Alpine, in which case the real problem is a combination of your lack of patience and poor map design.
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than when no counters or support are present on either side. The other side of this is that when all counters are present and no support then they are significantly weaker, bordering on useless.
This is what is known as "Cable news 'balance'"... or more accurately, "Fox News 'balance'". There are no two equal sides here. If all counters are present on the other side and none of the LRM assisting equipment on your side YOUR LRMS ARE FLAT OUT USELESS.
For all practical purposes you are not going to be firing your LRMs at anyone, EVER, in a match where your team has no tag or Narc or even UAVs and the enemy team is packed to the gills with AMS or dual AMS and is using the AMS moduleS with ECM mechs all over the place. They don't even need to use cover or tunnels or anything else- at least, not to avoid getting hit by LRMs. Not unless they literally stand still and wait for your dumbfired LRMs to arrive, or you are awesome enough (and if you are, my hat is off to you) to predict where they will be and dumbfire rounds ahead of them often enough to kill them.
And heck, if they're in big AMS blobs they may not even need to worry about that, ESPECIALLY if you are using Clan LRMs.
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What I want is for the scale to be shortened such that the weapon system is never useless or bordering overpowered except for certain rare team compositions (like 3 triple AMS ECM kitfoxes and the rest of the team with ECM or double AMS).
How about never ever useless?
As it is, it has never been overpowered except during the ONE AND ONLY Lurmpocalypse, which lasted.. what? 24 hours?
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The perfect changes for them in my head are this:
ECM needs to stop preventing target locks and instead just prevents detailed target info then maybe tweak the lock-on speed reduction + or -,
radar deprivation changed to 33-50% reduction in lock on decay time or removed,
target decay should never be able to exceed ~1.5-2 seconds baseline ideally should scale with how long the LOS is held this would allow for missile speed increases without causing significant balance concerns like before when just getting a lock-on meant the missiles would hit you before the lock-on decayed (could be dependant on target information ie. just the target decays in ~1 sec but targets with detailed info take the full duration to decay,)
Not bad
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lrms need to be given the streak treatment and have groups of 5 lrms targets random "bones" on the mech,
lrms impulse and smoke reduction so it doesn't blind and give the victim parkinson's until they find cover while also lagging out the fps,
No. The second part is only sort of a good idea, insofar as some people with crappy systems might have some problems (I would like to see direct evidence of this, however).
accuracy or spread nerf (nothing huge) to indirect fire outside of spotting equipment,
Along with your overall accuracy/spread nerf? LOL. Hey let's make LRMs into LBX autocannons, sans the crit bonus!
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I'ld like the lrm descent angle reduced so more cover can be classified as lrm-safe especially on maps like caustic
This pretty much speaks for itself. I'll let other people tell you why you're wrongheaded on this.
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obviously those numbers could be tweaked but i just want to make lrms less punishing for simple positioning "mistakes" ie. if you are in a DWF and you have to stop and turn around in order to get to cover you will be hit by 3+ volleys of N missiles where N is the total sum of lrm launchers within a 3.14 km^2 circle around your mech.
Mistakes should not be in airquotes.
P.S.
We understand you just fine, you're just (mostly) wrong.
Look, I get that it can be unpleasant to get LURMed to death, but allow me to let you in on a little secret:
Assuming your utopian vision was made reality, do you know what would ACTUALLY happen in the long term?
Those people who WERE killing you (while you were strolling out in the open) without having LOS to you would stop using LRMs and switch to the vastly superior jump jet + FLD combo. Then and only then would your hell truly begin.
Electric fire would rain from the skies, slamming into your mech near-instantly and you would be left cursing at the screen, shedding bitter tears of regret and shaking your fist in the air and demanding to know why your god has forsaken you.
LRMs need a buff, not a nerf. They need a Line of Sight buff. They got an indirect targeting nerf with the Radar Dep. module, as players were asking (well more like whining incessantly for) so now they need a LoS damage buff. It could be a Module too! Say it only works from 180 to 550 meters for added skill.
With all this T2 equipment to help LRM's it's a good job lasers and AC's don't have T2 equipment to help them out too...
Oh wait, they do.
If ECM is on the enemy team LRM's can be wasted tonnage.
If multiple AMS are on the enemy team LRM's can be wasted tonnage.
T2 equipment (TAG, ArtemisIV, etc) are there to improve LRM's, just like how the other weapons get T2 upgrades (ERlasers, UltraAC's). The difference is that basic T1 lasers and AC's are never wasted tonnage.
Also, all weapons in MWO are based on TT stats and rules (depending on how PGI feels).
TT PPC = roll to hit - instant travel time - roll for location - apply damage.
MWO PPC = fire (roll to hit and location) - 1,500m/s travel time - apply damage.
(Assuming no countermeasures)
TT LRM's = roll to hit - instant travel time - roll to see how many missiles hit - roll for locations - apply damage.
MWO LRM's = wait for lock - fire (roll to hit, i.e. keep lock on the target who gets a warning that the salvo is coming) - 160m/s travel time - various amounts of missiles hit locations (not sure how that is calculated tbh) - apply damage.
How anyone can think that LRM's haven't been hugely nerfed from their TT origins i don't know, and yet people still want it nerfed further...
Just the 160m/s is ridiculous!
If LRM's worked in TT like they do in MWO all you would see is:
Player 1: I'm firing LRM's at your HBK.
Player 2: I'm moving behind cover next turn, you missed.
Oh yeah, and LRM's are supposed to have the same range as an ERPPC's extreme range.
With all the nerfs LRM's have had, that other weapons haven't had, i don't think it's unreasonable to expect a substantial damage buff.
Having said that, it should be harder to hit targets with indirect-fire.
LRMs are up, i hardly ever play LRM boats, i mostly play brawler, but when i do, i easily get 800 dmg. i just stand there and get lock click and dmg. its not hard at all.
Lets be honest here folks. If your entire team is decimated by a LRM lance then LRMs are the least of your problems. If you conga line one at a time and get picked apart by LURMS then direct fire would have done the same exact thing... but wait for it... MUCH FASTER. You people have issues with the LRM deaths because of the social stigma that LRMS have.. IE low skill, noob tubing and many many worse terms that are not appropriate to post in the forums.
Nekudemus, on 12 July 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:
LRMs are up, i hardly ever play LRM boats, i mostly play brawler, but when i do, i easily get 800 dmg. i just stand there and get lock click and dmg. its not hard at all.
And that is how you know you are part of the "underhive" I would love to see you try that in the group q when you are fighting the lords and heim + friends. More like stand there and get beaten like a baby seal while possibly never getting a lock the entire match. Add me to your friends list and lets group up because I want to witness this epic magic in the making.
The "no skill" LRM pilots aren't doing much damage...
That said, I have to laugh at folks who just toss out EMS, AMS Cover... like folks haven't thought of that. EMS isn't available on most mechs. single AMS barely helps and cover doesn't work when engaged with another mech and you can't stop to hide from MR unseen LRM. Or when covers almost nonexistent.
That said, LRMs are often not a problem. It's when you get into matches with tons of LRM racks that things get hairy and I'll see folks quickly wrecked. Luckily those games aren't frequent. However, since the clan launch I doubled my AMS ammo and still run out much faster. The fastest was 2 tons of AMS ammo in 2 minutes. I played with a guy today who exclaimed he went through 3 tons in 2 minutes...
I pilot everything and enjoy some LRM lobbing. Some games you're fighting lots of ECM/potential coverage and damage is hard to come by and other games are completely opposite. I think LRM's are mostly in a good place if PGI would simply limit the number of mechs carrying (ignoring single lrm 5) LRMs. Or add at least 500 rounds to each ton of AMS ammo.
Oh and PGI, please change ECM. Maybe make it so it greatly increases lock time instead of negating it? Same with Radar deprivation.
LRMs are up, i hardly ever play LRM boats, i mostly play brawler, but when i do, i easily get 800 dmg. i just stand there and get lock click and dmg. its not hard at all.
Because of the slow missile speed a large part of an LRM's ability to hit falls on the shoulders (no pun intended) of the target. If your opponents like to derp around in the open (generally low ELO range) you can get huge damage scores (although much of the damage is ineffective as it is spread around the target).
The better a player the target is the less chance you have of hitting him/her. I'm not a great player (probably around mid-ELO i guess) but i can almost ignore LRM's completely.
The "no skill" LRM pilots aren't doing much damage...
That said, I have to laugh at folks who just toss out EMS, AMS Cover... like folks haven't thought of that. EMS isn't available on most mechs. single AMS barely helps and cover doesn't work when engaged with another mech and you can't stop to hide from MR unseen LRM. Or when covers almost nonexistent.
That said, LRMs are often not a problem. It's when you get into matches with tons of LRM racks that things get hairy and I'll see folks quickly wrecked. Luckily those games aren't frequent. However, since the clan launch I doubled my AMS ammo and still run out much faster. The fastest was 2 tons of AMS ammo in 2 minutes. I played with a guy today who exclaimed he went through 3 tons in 2 minutes...
I pilot everything and enjoy some LRM lobbing. Some games you're fighting lots of ECM/potential coverage and damage is hard to come by and other games are completely opposite. I think LRM's are mostly in a good place if PGI would simply limit the number of mechs carrying (ignoring single lrm 5) LRMs. Or add at least 500 rounds to each ton of AMS ammo.
Oh and PGI, please change ECM. Maybe make it so it greatly increases lock time instead of negating it? Same with Radar deprivation.
One AMS doesn't do much, but Many does a great deal. AMS stacks exponentially. LRMs stack linearly. Cover works great even when engaging enemy mechs, hell sometimes I'll use enemy mechs AS COVER. They'll scream to their team mates "STOP FIRING" after they get hit with half the LRMs that were meant for you.
Not only this, but you DO NOT STOP when the rain starts.
I can not stress this enough, Stopping in MWO is Death. Either from the best weapons in the game GR+PPCs or ACs+PPCs, the second tier weapons (Lasers, SRMs, Streaks, MGs) or LRMs. If you quit moving forward you die. You deserve to die.
This does not mean you charge through open ground, what it DOES mean is you charge from low cover to low cover, traveling LATERALLY in relation to the missiles incoming. Do not charge Towards them straight on, do not Run Backwards. Move Laterally This means 90 degrees to the missiles. DO NOT STOP, continue your advance, get in there, wreck their faces and say GG Close.
AMS is not meant to be a 100 percent magical shield against LRMs. What it DOES do is make any necessary movements into open territory towards thicker cover or the enemy position more survivable.
The problem is, the PBR Underhive, A: isn't smart enough to Advance, B: Isn't smart enough to carry AMS.
Eventually if you do these things over and over again, and find people like yourself that do so on a given map you'll drag yourself up out of the underhive, and you'll find a battlefield nearly devoid of LRM fire.
Because everyone in the middling and upwards pretty much puts the Dedicated LRM Boats Away. Sure you might get one, once in a while between TWO teams but you'll find the field almost devoid compared to what you find in the basement.
If you're really phobic of LRMs you can carry the Radar Deprivation module. AS SOON as you leave line of sight, (or killed the spotter or driven him off) radar lock is instantly lost. Couple this with AMS, and god help the poor LRM ******** if there's ECM too and they'll be rendered completely Useless.
The "no skill" LRM pilots aren't doing much damage...
That said, I have to laugh at folks who just toss out EMS, AMS Cover... like folks haven't thought of that. EMS isn't available on most mechs. single AMS barely helps and cover doesn't work when engaged with another mech and you can't stop to hide from MR unseen LRM. Or when covers almost nonexistent.
I apologize, i wasn't aware that there was even such a thing as EMS in MW:O.
That said, AMS can help quite a lot against LRMs, especially in groups, and especially against Clan LRMs. Doubly so if you use it in conjunction with maneuvering (as it can take out the first few missiles, which might otherwise have hit you, allowing the remainder to hit the cover you just ducked behind.
As for the "like folks haven't thought of that" bit, we just had more faith in you guys than you (evidently) deserve. So you're saying the problem is not that people are unaware of cover, AMS, and this mysterious EMS, but rather than they have difficulty walking and chewing bubblegum at the same time? That, if they are being shot at by an enemy, they are literally incapable of simultaneously fighting and/or torso twisting, AND moving to cover?
I honestly don't even... ... seriously, what the hell? This is not even a tactic, it's something that should be instinctual. There must be something medically wrong with you if you can't handle two or three extremely simple tasks in succession (move in a certain direction, fire at the enemy, torso twist, repeating the last two as needed and only needing to attend to the first when you hit a wall or generally need to make some minor course adjustments).
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That said, LRMs are often not a problem. It's when you get into matches with tons of LRM racks that things get hairy and I'll see folks quickly wrecked. Luckily those games aren't frequent. However, since the clan launch I doubled my AMS ammo and still run out much faster. The fastest was 2 tons of AMS ammo in 2 minutes. I played with a guy today who exclaimed he went through 3 tons in 2 minutes...
You are running out faster because each LRM volley is ripple fired, resulting in more missiles being shot down per volley.
Also, if you get into a match with tons of poptarts things would get even hairier and folks would get wrecked even quicker...
Hell, you could say the same about Mlas, with the difference being that there would be actual fun to be had in the matches instead of cowering and praying that your idiot teammates don't run out into the open and get lurmed or FLDed to death.
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I pilot everything and enjoy some LRM lobbing. Some games you're fighting lots of ECM/potential coverage and damage is hard to come by and other games are completely opposite. I think LRM's are mostly in a good place if PGI would simply limit the number of mechs carrying (ignoring single lrm 5) LRMs. Or add at least 500 rounds to each ton of AMS ammo.
Oh and PGI, please change ECM. Maybe make it so it greatly increases lock time instead of negating it? Same with Radar deprivation.
Limit them how, exactly? And how would they keep the single LRM 5 racks effective?
And no, Radar derp should not even exist, and ECM should do what it does in canon, with Angel ECM taking up as much room and tonnage as the largest targeting computer and causing random bursts of static and flickering lights on the monitor, and shrill shrieks of sound to emit from the user's speakers.
One AMS doesn't do much, but Many does a great deal. AMS stacks exponentially. LRMs stack linearly. Cover works great even when engaging enemy mechs, hell sometimes I'll use enemy mechs AS COVER. They'll scream to their team mates "STOP FIRING" after they get hit with half the LRMs that were meant for you.
Not only this, but you DO NOT STOP when the rain starts.
I can not stress this enough, Stopping in MWO is Death. Either from the best weapons in the game GR+PPCs or ACs+PPCs, the second tier weapons (Lasers, SRMs, Streaks, MGs) or LRMs. If you quit moving forward you die. You deserve to die.
This does not mean you charge through open ground, what it DOES mean is you charge from low cover to low cover, traveling LATERALLY in relation to the missiles incoming. Do not charge Towards them straight on, do not Run Backwards. Move Laterally This means 90 degrees to the missiles. DO NOT STOP, continue your advance, get in there, wreck their faces and say GG Close.
AMS is not meant to be a 100 percent magical shield against LRMs. What it DOES do is make any necessary movements into open territory towards thicker cover or the enemy position more survivable.
The problem is, the PBR Underhive, A: isn't smart enough to Advance, B: Isn't smart enough to carry AMS.
Eventually if you do these things over and over again, and find people like yourself that do so on a given map you'll drag yourself up out of the underhive, and you'll find a battlefield nearly devoid of LRM fire.
Because everyone in the middling and upwards pretty much puts the Dedicated LRM Boats Away. Sure you might get one, once in a while between TWO teams but you'll find the field almost devoid compared to what you find in the basement.
If you're really phobic of LRMs you can carry the Radar Deprivation module. AS SOON as you leave line of sight, (or killed the spotter or driven him off) radar lock is instantly lost. Couple this with AMS, and god help the poor LRM ******** if there's ECM too and they'll be rendered completely Useless.
AMS does not stack exponentially. Switch between dual and single and you'll notice almost exactly double the missiles shot down. So at times that's 6. Out of a volley of 30... Outside of the amount of ammo I think AMS is fine, I was responding to folks who pretend it's some magic shield that negates LRMs.
Yes, SOMETIMES you can still get cover when engaging other mechs and I've used big enemy's for coverage but if the opposing pilot doesn't suck you either take extra damage from him (bad idea) or take a number of the LRMS unless the LRM angle is to your favor.
The whole "do not stop" thing is wrong as there is plenty of time in which you don't need movement (unless you're a light) to stay alive. Esp when the other team is on the other side of the map.
"PBR underhive" What a silly term... I'm sorry but I often run odd builds and enjoy just having fun. My Cat C1 is 2 ppc 2 mlas 2 streak (need something to shoot up/down lol) and it's one of my favorites even though I do FAR better on many other mechs that don't have a ridiculous CT damage zone. But that being said I wouldn't want to leave bottom (besides mid/highish ELO's seem to get pretty well mixed with low) elo folks in a game that kills their fun just because I'm above it. Said with my snottiest voice.
The rest of your post seemed automated (understandable with the topic) and didn't seem to address my points which acknowledged radar dep and ECM being OP. Frankly I think the fact that ECM, AMS, Radar dep and easy/quick targeting of LRM boats drops them from large skilled groups speaks to the fact that they need tweaked as I previously said.
As I stated, LRM's aren't OP and ECM/Radar Dep needs weakened. However rare, on some games the number of LRM racks is silly and should be capped. Folks can pretend like there is nothing but buffing that needs to be done are full of it or not paying attention to other players needs.
However rare, on some games the number of LRM racks is silly and should be capped. Folks can pretend like there is nothing but buffing that needs to be done are full of it or not paying attention to other players needs.
You don't think that sounds silly?
When i'm playing my RVN-3L i nearly always get killed by an AC20. Would it be okay to limit the amount of AC20's in a match?
I would agree that multiple LRM's indirect-firing on a single target is a force multiplier and it should be made harder to hit with indirect-fire, or give the missiles a bigger spread when fired indirect, but no weapon should ever have arbitrary limits placed on it.
Of course ECM already can limit the number of LRM's to 0 which is the main problem with ECM.
I apologize, i wasn't aware that there was even such a thing as EMS in MW:O.
That said, AMS can help quite a lot against LRMs, especially in groups, and especially against Clan LRMs. Doubly so if you use it in conjunction with maneuvering (as it can take out the first few missiles, which might otherwise have hit you, allowing the remainder to hit the cover you just ducked behind.
As for the "like folks haven't thought of that" bit, we just had more faith in you guys than you (evidently) deserve. So you're saying the problem is not that people are unaware of cover, AMS, and this mysterious EMS, but rather than they have difficulty walking and chewing bubblegum at the same time? That, if they are being shot at by an enemy, they are literally incapable of simultaneously fighting and/or torso twisting, AND moving to cover?
I honestly don't even... ... seriously, what the hell? This is not even a tactic, it's something that should be instinctual. There must be something medically wrong with you if you can't handle two or three extremely simple tasks in succession (move in a certain direction, fire at the enemy, torso twist, repeating the last two as needed and only needing to attend to the first when you hit a wall or generally need to make some minor course adjustments).
You are running out faster because each LRM volley is ripple fired, resulting in more missiles being shot down per volley.
Also, if you get into a match with tons of poptarts things would get even hairier and folks would get wrecked even quicker...
Hell, you could say the same about Mlas, with the difference being that there would be actual fun to be had in the matches instead of cowering and praying that your idiot teammates don't run out into the open and get lurmed or FLDed to death.
Limit them how, exactly? And how would they keep the single LRM 5 racks effective?
And no, Radar derp should not even exist, and ECM should do what it does in canon, with Angel ECM taking up as much room and tonnage as the largest targeting computer and causing random bursts of static and flickering lights on the monitor, and shrill shrieks of sound to emit from the user's speakers.
"AMS can help quite a lot against LRMs, especially in groups" One is of minimal help against larger volleys and group AMS can be devastating to LRMs. You are also correct that killing off a few as you duck under cover is nice. But if you want to pretend there's always plenty of AMS coverage I can't stop you.
Yes, be rude, put words in my mouth and keep harping on me accidentally typing EMS instead of ECM. That helps make a point. Of course much of your post was just hurling insults while ignoring my points.
"running out faster because each LRM volley is ripple fired" This is PART of the issue. The other part is that there were (it's largely tapered off) a lot more mechs running LRMs. Now the LRM
Never had an issue with poptarts. Maybe you shouldn't telegraph.
"the difference being that there would be actual fun to be had in the matches instead of cowering and praying that your idiot teammates don't run out into the open and get lurmed or FLDed to death." You hit the nail on the head. Many folks feel LRMs, or at least lots of them, take fun/maneuvering out of the game.
"Limit them how, exactly? And how would they keep the single LRM 5 racks effective?" I've already said limit the number of them allowed per side in a match. Of course with how hard of a time they've had with match maker it's probably a pipe dream. I've never found a single 5lrm rack to be effective. But some folks like to run them and really they don't seem to impact the game much so why not give them a pass.
I'd be fine with them removing Radar Dep but I doubt they will so why not shoot for a change? Of course I also feel if they did then they should lower the time for Target Decay. I have no idea what ECM does in cannon. So... lollipops?
I have no idea what ECM does in cannon. So... lollipops?
To LRM's? Nothing.
Oh, i forgot to mention earlier.
If you think you run out of AMS ammo too fast, add more ammo. Yes, it can take up a lot of tonnage. Welcome to the world of ammo-based weapons where (in MWO at least) you have to carry a lot more tonnage worth of ammo than you should.
You don't think that sounds silly?
When i'm playing my RVN-3L i nearly always get killed by an AC20. Would it be okay to limit the amount of AC20's in a match?
I would agree that multiple LRM's indirect-firing on a single target is a force multiplier and it should be made harder to hit with indirect-fire, or give the missiles a bigger spread when fired indirect, but no weapon should ever have arbitrary limits placed on it.
Of course ECM already can limit the number of LRM's to 0 which is the main problem with ECM.
Actually no, I don't think it sounds silly. You never get hit with several mechs worth of AC20 who can't even see you. That being said I do like your indirect (unless you had LOS when originally fired) idea better. I wonder how hard it would be to introduce LRM collision with other LRM's... Limiting the number of LRM's would probably not work well and was just an idea.
Actually no, I don't think it sounds silly. You never get hit with several mechs worth of AC20 who can't even see you.
Well tbh i never get hit with several mechs worth of LRM's either. I know they are in the match and their general direction (by the missiles flying through the sky towards teammates), so i use cover to not get hit by them while i'm moving around.
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That being said I do like your indirect (unless you had LOS when originally fired) idea better. I wonder how hard it would be to introduce LRM collision with other LRM's... Limiting the number of LRM's would probably not work well and was just an idea.
How did you get missile collision from what i said?
I said make it harder to hit, which with the lock on system i'm not sure is even possible. But spreading the missiles would cause less damage to the target.
I'm not in favour of nerfing LRM's though, at least not without a hefty buff for direct-fire, which should be the main way LRM's are used. Long range, little damage. Of course the slow missile speed and the warning make it almost impossible to use them at anywhere near max range
I wouldn't be opposed to them working as they do in tabletop. Anything would be better then their current "One Ring" status.
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Also the reasons for things sounding insulting are:
1: The LRM haters are frankly so far out of sync with reality that it is profoundly irritating to have to point out the actual facts over and over and over. So much so that I am fairly certain that many of them are just trolls, like the people who insisted that MGs are anti infantry only weapons.
2: It is so insanely easy to handle LRMs in all but the absolute worst of situations (which are generally the result of pilot error or a situation that would have resulted in your death regardless of what weapons your enemies were using*)
3: There are actual facts that can be looked at, and, when raw emotion and... frankly... butthurt... are removed from the equation, it becomes quite clear that LRMs are on the weak side, not the strong side, and that any apparent strength on their part is largely due to inferior play. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true.
And honestly, "inferior play" is putting it very, very gently. Anyone who plays any modern real time games at all should have a basic familiarity with movement and cover that is far, far, beyond the level that LRM whiners seem to be at.
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How did you get missile collision from what i said?
