40 replies to this topic

[krash27]

Dracol, on 10 June 2014 - 02:21 AM, said:

This isn't the only game you'll find this player spread in. My brother got titan fall last week. Went over to see what it was all about. Each game was us at level 1 - 5 on a team of level 25+ versus a team of lvl 25+ with maybe a lvl 10.

I play titanfall, you do realize that the lvl shown for people on your team, and the other team, doesn't necessarily mean they are low lvl right?
you should actually learn how the lvls in a particular game work before you compare it to MWO. Do you understand what generations are in Titanfall?

[cSand]

Well, looking at the screenshot, weight wise the teams are fairly decently balanced. Kind of underwhelming results on both sides.

It is based on mechs so I think when you run a new mech you get slammed in with the underhive.

But then the questions becomes:

Is the matchmaker as terrible as you think, or are your skills really as good as you think?

Edited by cSand, 10 June 2014 - 02:36 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Kassatsu, on 10 June 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

See, the problem with matchmaking is it requires a large enough pool of players to actually match you with/against. Pretty sure we don't have that for any given skill level.

What are you talking about?

Don't you know that MWO had over ONE MILLION Registered users? At least that's what I heard somewhere.

[Dracol]

krash27, on 10 June 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

I play titanfall, you do realize that the lvl shown for people on your team, and the other team, doesn't necessarily mean they are low lvl right?
you should actually learn how the lvls in a particular game work before you compare it to MWO. Do you understand what generations are in Titanfall?

Well, what happen was, he got the new xbox and downloaded titanfall. We then started up the game, ran through the tutorial, and start the campaign. So, for a casual gamer point of view, Titanfall pitted us against lvl 20s and lvl 30s.
Since Titanfall provided information on what we were facing, I used that for the comparison.

Now, does Titanfall divide players further then what is shown? I could not answer that. Just like an MW:O player doesn't know how they are divided. Now, a Titanfall player and an MW:O player both could learn more about the game, and then what you are talking about would be come known... but til then, Titanfall gives the impression that lvl 1 -5 people with little in game experience are dropped against more skilled lvl 20 - lvl 30 people.

I still stand by my comparison.

[krash27]

Dracol, on 10 June 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

Well, what happen was, he got the new xbox and downloaded titanfall. We then started up the game, ran through the tutorial, and start the campaign. So, for a casual gamer point of view, Titanfall pitted us against lvl 20s and lvl 30s.
Since Titanfall provided information on what we were facing, I used that for the comparison.

Now, does Titanfall divide players further then what is shown? I could not answer that. Just like an MW:O player doesn't know how they are divided. Now, a Titanfall player and an MW:O player both could learn more about the game, and then what you are talking about would be come known... but til then, Titanfall gives the impression that lvl 1 -5 people with little in game experience are dropped against more skilled lvl 20 - lvl 30 people.

I still stand by my comparison.

Hyperbole at its best since you did not take the time to understand titanfall match making. Is it perfect? Hell no.
Sure the other team had a lvl 20 gen 1 but your team might have had a lvl 2 gen 7 which meant they have run up the lvls 7 times for acheivments, so which team has the higher tier players in that situation since the Gen 7 fellow has gotten to lvl 50 eight times while the lvl 20 your spoke of hasn't even made it to lvl 50 once?

[Macster16]

Admittedly though, the MM did seem to go bonkers as the last bunch of games I had last night were absolutely dreadful. Myself and others were even questioning whether some of the other "players" were even humans or were bots/scripts to fill slots. Had a series of 0-12 steamroll losses where I don't know wtf some of my squad mates were doing. They just kind of stood there around the spawn and waited for the other team to come over and then shoot them in the face. It got so bad I had to quit playing for the night.

[Pappus]

Macster16, on 10 June 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Admittedly though, the MM did seem to go bonkers as the last bunch of games I had last night were absolutely dreadful. Myself and others were even questioning whether some of the other "players" were even humans or were bots/scripts to fill slots. Had a series of 0-12 steamroll losses where I don't know wtf some of my squad mates were doing. They just kind of stood there around the spawn and waited for the other team to come over and then shoot them in the face. It got so bad I had to quit playing for the night.

Funny that you say that I saw a catapult run against a wall, turning around, running against the next wall and ignoring me, although I was shotting him in the face and he had lasers.

[RangerGee412]

What time you guys paying? I've had a majority of really good games with with the occasional stomp in there once and a while.

[Flaming oblivion]

Lynx7725, on 09 June 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

I've been experiencing more games that just goes south much faster than normal.

In one game I watched one enemy Dragon aimlessly walk around torso-twisting too much trying to shoot things. And missing horribly. Yes, I ended up killing it.

Yes, it makes for terribad games. But having newbie problems in games means we are getting newbies. Which in the greater context of things, is a good problem.

Or it means the player base is that low it simply cant offer balanced fights anymore. This is why 12v12 is so foolish the more players you need the more balance suffers, and the game for whatever reason (I could mention not going to) cant maintain a decent player base. Factor in pre mades and the final nail in the Balance coffin is hammered in , In a game with near absolutely no content that completely relies on rinse and repeat pvp balance is absolutely essential. There is no getting around it.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 10 June 2014 - 03:59 PM.

[Hellen Wheels]

TLBFestus, on 10 June 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

What are you talking about?

Don't you know that MWO had over ONE MILLION Registered users? At least that's what I heard somewhere.

There is no "matchmaker" now.

It was disabled.

Stop using the term "elo" here

There never was, and never will be, any "elo" in MWO.

Stop fooling yourselves.

I'm actually considering instituting a suit on behalf of FIDE to stop the tarnishing of the term here.

THERE IS NO ELO HERE. STOP IT.

THERE IS NO MM HERE. STOP IT.

ACCEPT THE RANDOMNESS OF THE PIG!

There is nothing but random now. Get over it. They just can't do it. No matter how much you wish.

It will never be.

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 10 June 2014 - 04:23 PM.

[cSand]

What's life like, you know, way out there?

Hellen Wheels, on 10 June 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

There is no "matchmaker" now.

It was disabled.

Interesting.

Source?

[Ryvucz]

Abaddonis, on 09 June 2014 - 06:58 PM, said:

How does this matching system pit a team with 5 champion mechs, two of those players are on their first and second games respectively, vs. anything else? Note the 0 damage dealing mechs? Both players played, not disconnects.

Your matching system is god awful. Your player base is too low to sustain decent matches. These realities are tied hand in hand and will not improve any time soon.

Keep pushing those Clan mechs!!

My recent match has you beat.

[Kassatsu]

TLBFestus, on 10 June 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

What are you talking about?

Don't you know that MWO had over ONE MILLION Registered users? At least that's what I heard somewhere.

Yeah, and TERA has what, 3 million players?

Registered users are not active players, and I really wish companies would stop making them sound well over ten times better off than they really are. Factoring in ACTIVE players and alt accounts, you get a ridiculously tiny fraction of what most companies mean they say "1 million players worldwide!" as the vast majority quit long ago.

Sorry, got srs for a second there. Here have another horse picture:

[Ryvucz]

Kassatsu, on 10 June 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

Yeah, and TERA has what, 3 million players?

Registered users are not active players, and I really wish companies would stop making them sound well over ten times better off than they really are. Factoring in ACTIVE players and alt accounts, you get a ridiculously tiny fraction of what most companies mean they say "1 million players worldwide!" as the vast majority quit long ago.

Sorry, got srs for a second there. Here have another horse picture:

Seriously, stop horse'n around.

[Flaming oblivion]

Ryvucz, on 10 June 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

Seriously, stop horse'n around.

[Ryvucz]

Flaming oblivion, on 10 June 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

Couldn't bear it could ya?

[Lynx7725]

Flaming oblivion, on 10 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

Or it means the player base is that low it simply cant offer balanced fights anymore. This is why 12v12 is so foolish the more players you need the more balance suffers, and the game for whatever reason (I could mention not going to) cant maintain a decent player base. Factor in pre mades and the final nail in the Balance coffin is hammered in , In a game with near absolutely no content that completely relies on rinse and repeat pvp balance is absolutely essential. There is no getting around it.

No, the symptom for too small a player base would be extremely long wait times for games, or continuous failure to find games. We saw that when they broke the MM a few weeks ago, at the first 4/3 launch -- the stupidly over-rigid criteria meant Maggie couldn't find enough players to fill games, so she continually aborted matching games. That is what essentially would happen when there is insufficient numbers of players in the pool.

Remember that the MM isn't first constrained by ELO band, it's first constrained by the total pool of players that are online at the moment. And this pool changes with time -- in my local late night/ early mornings, I face cutthroat competition as the US enters its afternoons and evenings, and on local Sundays afternoons (US weekend early mornings) I see oddballs and weirdos. You will get timings where a lot of new players come in and you get terribad games.

From what I can see, it appears that MWO appears to be holding on to a core of players sufficient for fairly fast matchmaking within an acceptable time frame, any time of the day. That's already an accomplishment given the niche market MWO is pandering to. In addition, thanks to the ROFLSTOMP I get from time to time, at the least there are people who casually returns to MWO from time to time to check things out (who don't play often, and as such has less experience). And there are signs that there are utter newbies coming into the game, though probably not as many as would be great from PGI's perspective.

People seem to be under the impression that ELO banding happens in matchmaking. It can't, because if that's the case, some people will never get games (top ELO players won't be able to get games and would thus exit the game community). We still continually hear of supposedly high ELO players PUGging, so they still can get games.

What ELO does in matchmaking is that Maggie ensures both sides get a fairly even spread of ELO, and no one side has all the high ELO players. In my limited testing on my understanding of how the matchmaking is implemented, it turns out to be actually fairly difficult to set up an imbalanced ELO game.

[Abaddonis]

cSand, on 10 June 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

Well, looking at the screenshot, weight wise the teams are fairly decently balanced. Kind of underwhelming results on both sides.

It is based on mechs so I think when you run a new mech you get slammed in with the underhive.

But then the questions becomes:

Is the matchmaker as terrible as you think, or are your skills really as good as you think?

I don't claim to be a good player. My disgust lies with the matchmaking system consistently putting lopsided teams together. I'm positive the player base isn't deep enough to make use of a functioning match maker. I'm also positive PGI hasn't shown the competence to assemble a functioning match maker. Seen the last 3 patches?

How could that match have been fun for the two brand new players? This is a tough game, sure, but PGI's systems do not breed player retention. If this game wasn't Battletech/Mechwarrior, it would be dead.

[Ghogiel]

Only advise worth giving is don't PUG. Also don't take dumb mechs. Just close MWO if you can't get a group of decent players who adapt to whatever the current meta is.

I'm solo right now and the game is ****. The maps are stale. No coordination. Bad positioning. No movement. It just gets highlighted solo.

[Flaming oblivion]

Ghogiel, on 10 June 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

Only advise worth giving is don't PUG. Also don't take dumb mechs. Just close MWO if you can't get a group of decent players who adapt to whatever the current meta is. I'm solo right now and the game is ****. The maps are stale. No coordination. Bad positioning. No movement. It just gets highlighted solo.

And this is why the games a walking coffin rather then fix the broken mechanics adapt to them , OR fix them right before you implement another type of tech which will most likely be vastly OP lul .