124 replies to this topic

[Faith McCarron]

Same thing with the Davions. From the beginning, they were the "space good guys". And whiles, yes, technically they are a little more "british" than anything else, and yes, technically Marik is the closest thing to the US in the game, Davion has ALWAYS been the go-to faction for the 'murica-type people, since the early days of TT. Show me a person who either:

1- Has a strong interest in American History
2 - Is a member of Law Enforcement
3 - Has an inordinate number of American flags on their home/vehicle
4 - Plays America in any game with a WW II setting
5 - Is a US Civil War reenactor
6 - Is a strong proponent of American Exceptionalism

And I will show you with about 90-95% accuracy, someone who plays Davion in Battletech.

A lot of it has to do with the novels, as if you go back as far as the Warrior Trilogy, you will find Stackpole painting the Davions as the good and moral guys of the Inner Sphere, fighting for truth and justice against the forces of totalitiariansm, communism, etc. In fact, if you go and read the Warrior Trilogy, Stackpole has huge swaths of the novel where Hanse Davion muses with any number of his cronies about how evil Max Liao is, how freedom will never be safe until they defeat the bad guys, how Justin Allard was the pinnacle of all that is good about freedom-loving people, etc. Then all the enemies are painted as the face of evil. Capellans are presented as insane totalitarians who will brainwash people every chance they get. Kurita is the evil totalitarian Japanese monster who is always sending faceless villains to kill innocent women and children wherever they can find them. And coincidentally, Hanse Davion, fighting the good fight for all of mankind, gets to marry the beautiful blonde princess. Oh, and btw, while he and the Princess are engaged, she goes on her own learning journey to discover how rulers owe their people and should always fight for their freedom. Oooh, and constantly opine that brilliant freedom-loving Hanse, he's soooo dreamy. Steiner is painted as good guys because they are constantly becoming more like Davion, and the FWL simply isn't mentioned, other than pointing out that Janos Marik is old.

The pattern continues through later books, with Victor being the ultimate goodie-two-shoes, fighting the Clans, helping Kai find himself, teaching Kurita how to be less like Kurita and more like Davion. All the heroes are Davion cronies, and of course, when one of the Davions (Katherine) goes evil, she's more Steiner than Davion (of course) and Victor ultimately saves the universe from her (of course).

And finally, when the religious nutcases go and launch all out Jihad, we get a new goodie-two-shoes, Devlin Stone, who is almost certainly Fed Suns in origin, and very possibly is, himself, one of the blessed Davion family.

[Livewyr]

Faith McCarron, on 10 June 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

Show me a person who either:

1- Has a strong interest in American History
2 - Is a member of Law Enforcement
3 - Has an inordinate number of American flags on their home/vehicle
4 - Plays America in any game with a WW II setting
5 - Is a US Civil War reenactor
6 - Is a strong proponent of American Exceptionalism

And I will show you with about 90-95% accuracy, someone who plays Davion in Battletech.

1- Have studied American Military History since I could read.
2- US Army Veteran.
3- Flag out front often, OIF and Infantry Cross-Rifles on my 1996 XJ.
4- Played America in RA2, WoT, COD4, BF2, and BF4
5- Got me there.. not a reenactor- but I've visited about 75% of the memorial'd battlefields.
6- Definitely do think my country is the best in the world. (No offense to other countries, but after living overseas for several years in a few different places, I missed America.)

I am for Kerensky's Vision. I am Clan Wolf.

Edited by Livewyr, 10 June 2014 - 08:00 PM.

[Firelizard]

Livewyr, on 10 June 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

Unless they happen to be ComStar. But hey, at least you did better than the Smoked Kittens.

They make up for it against the Word of Blake. With compounded interest.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Livewyr, on 10 June 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

I am for Kerensky's Vision. I am Clan Wolf.

Yeah, but you would probably fall in that 5% exception slot

[Tezcatli]

Well when I read about Clan Wolf on Sarna. It felt like whoever wrote for them elevated them by making other Clans seem incompetent. About how the other Clans pushed too far and too fast. And only Clan Wolf was smart enough to blah blah blah. So I'm looking into other Clans.

[El Bandito]

Livewyr, on 10 June 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

1- Have studied American Military History since I could read. 2- US Army Veteran. 3- Flag out front often, OIF and Infantry Cross-Rifles on my 1996 XJ. 4- Played America in RA2, WoT, COD4, BF2, and BF4 5- Got me there.. not a reenactor- but I've visited about 75% of the memorial'd battlefields. 6- Definitely do think my country is the best in the world. (No offense to other countries, but after living overseas for several years in a few different places, I missed America.) I am for Kerensky's Vision. I am Clan Wolf.

To be honest, Clan Wolf at the time of the invasion was pretty much the American version of the Clans. Jade Falcons were Eastern with their traditional mindset, GB were Norse, and SJs were space Na.zis.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 June 2014 - 08:18 PM.

[Gyrok]

Technoviking, on 10 June 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Wolf, Hellfox83 just called you a joke. Are you gonna stand for that? Wait, and a mockery. At this point you should probably just annihilate his entire bloodline.

I mean, it is Hellfox83. It took 82 Hellfoxes to get to this form.

The irony of that is, last night, some guy dropped against us 3 matches in a row, and got ROFLstomped, in the 4th match, he types in general chat..."Jeez man, been dropping against these wolves for like 3 matches and...oh ****...they are in here..."

Then you see..."Next time I see a 4 man of wolves I am just disconnecting..."

XXXXXXXXXXX has disconnected

LOL.

Whatever...

[Sephlock]

El Bandito, on 10 June 2014 - 08:16 PM, said:

To be honest, Clan Wolf at the time of the invasion was pretty much the American version of the Clans. Jade Falcons were Eastern with their traditional mindset, GB were Norse, and SJs were space {Godwin's Law}.

Also America IS the best, so... yeah .

[El Bandito]

Sephlock, on 10 June 2014 - 08:18 PM, said:

Also America IS the best, so... yeah .

I used to think like that in my high school and university year in USA, until the whole "Operation Iraqi Freedom", "Stand your ground" law, "Bible is the answer to everything" mentality made me think Canada is a better choice to live in.

Bottom line is, USA was the best when I was a young stud of raging hormones. Once I hit maturity, its all Canada for me.

Edited by El Bandito, 10 June 2014 - 08:25 PM.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Faith McCarron, on 10 June 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

1- Has a strong interest in American History
2 - Is a member of Law Enforcement
3 - Has an inordinate number of American flags on their home/vehicle
4 - Plays America in any game with a WW II setting
5 - Is a US Civil War reenactor
6 - Is a strong proponent of American Exceptionalism

1- love history, American history included. Favorite is the Renaissance though.
2- US Army
3- I don't have them EVERYWHERE, but I do love that flag
4- depends on the game. The BF series and RA2? America all day. DOD, RTCW, WOT, and COH I spend more time playing Germany.
5- used to Vietnam reenactments. Love visiting Civil War reenactments though.
6- America has its problems, but I'd rather live here than anywhere else.

I personally hate how the Fed Suns are portrayed in the lore. But I also hate the 'ultimate good, infinte bad' dichotomy of much of the BT universe (and most works of fiction in general). I'd like to read more books showing differing points of view. Like some books from the Capellan or Marik POV showcasing the unmentioned evils of the FedCom.

[Kilo 40]

HellFox83, on 10 June 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

What is "Good Guy" Syndrome? This is the behavior I have noted of players joining a faction simply because they are the perceived good guys of a series or game. Clan wolf since Mechwarrior 2 has been noted as the "good" clan out of the clans.

meh....this is probably true, and at least partly why I went with clan wolf.

Quote

But this reputation and belief about them unfortunately has caused a surge of players joining Clan Wolf that are really not that great. In fact much of them are rabble, that often times cause a defeat for a team more than anything.

But this....this is just really really bad logic. Choosing a faction, for what ever reason, means diddly squat about players skill or your likelihood of winning a match.

[Koniving]

Between Wolf and Jade Falcon, Wolf is probably closer to the 'good' side.

But of them, I think Ghost Bear would be closer to good.

[Kilo 40]

Zaggeron, on 10 June 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Well the topic seems to have changed from a statement about the players who choose to play under Clan Wolf to roleplaying in the context of the lore. I have no comments about the latter, but I do regarding the original post.

I would venture a guess that one's choice of Clan, for whatever reason, is absolutely and completely orthogonal to their skill as a player. So what if more people join Clan Wolf because they are perceived to be the good guys. The good and middlin' and bad players will join in the same ratios as they do other Clans.

Consider a large bag of different colored marbles -- blue, green, and red -- which are randomly selected to go into two jars. One jar gets 70% of the marbles, the other the rest. No matter which jar you select, the changes of getting a red marble are the same. So unless you think that somehow bad players are more attracted to Clan Wolf than the other clans, they will likely have the same percentage of good and bad players no matter what their relative size is compared to the other clans.

logic and common sense have no place here. i demand you leave good sir.

[lsp]

Or you could not flock to the clans to begin with? they're gay anyways.

[Kilo 40]

lsp, on 10 June 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

they're gay anyways.

Achievement unlocked! Use one middle school taunt,

[Coralld]

Clan Diamond Shark member here.

I couldn't help but over hear that you Clan and House members arguing. Which is kind of hard to ignore when people are going at it harder than an AC20... Hey, I could use that for a sexual innuendo.

Any way, and on a completely unrelated note, which has nothing to do with you guys fighting what so ever, but I would like to inform you all that we, of Clan Diamond Shark, are having a mech and weapons sale, 50% off. First come first served. Be the first, or get served by your ene... I mean, friends.
This deal is a limited time offer so act now.

This advertisement is brought to you by Clan Diamond Shark.

(Clan Diamond Shark is not responsible for cross tech incompatibilities. Nor are we responsible for possible ammo explosions, If you are having difficulty understanding the instructions that come with said product because it uses Clan dialect well that is your problem, if said product does not come with instructions then to bad and just deal with it. Upon perches of said product there will be a small by monthly fee that is required, if you are unable to pay the fee then the product and all that you own will be confiscated and all you will be left with are a black eye, bruised ribs, and most likely a broken arm and a leg. The destruction of said product does not exempt you from getting out of the by monthly fee and nor does changing your name and moving to a different planet as we will find you. If you have any other issues, questions, comments, or concerns... To bad.)

Edited by Coralld, 10 June 2014 - 09:00 PM.

[627]

Ah, finally!

Communiy Warfare has arrived!

btw... good, bad... and Davion is good? I fight for a ruthless emperor who wants to conquer the whole inner sphere!

(I'm reading the warrior trilogy atm, all of them are devious ********, the whole IS)

so, black or white? grey is good

Edited by 627, 10 June 2014 - 10:43 PM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

In my experience, people are even more attracted to anti-hero factions than good guy factions. On every server I played on there was a bit more Horde then there was Alliance xD
With the Clans I don't think it's a good guy/bad guy thing.

The Clan Wolf thing is probably a result of MechWarrior 2. It featured Clan Wolf and Clan Jade Falcon and made them famous. And portrayed Clan Wolf is a bit better light. So of the two most famous Clans people pick the one which is less douchebaggy. The fact that the Wolves get the Timber Wolf as thier signature mech also helps.

With the Inner Sphere, faction selection seems a bit more balanced as the Great Houses are all equal douchebags.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 11 June 2014 - 12:51 AM.

[ice trey]

Lunatech, on 10 June 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

So... like Davion for the IS?


*flame retardant suit, online*

Nah man, no need for a flame retardant suit if it's true.

The Wolves were painted up as being not only the "Good Guy" clan in the books, but also as the only clan with an ounce of brains among the lot. The rest were either depicted as indecisive or raving lunatics.
Serious "good guy" syndrome.

But as other people pointed out, that's exactly what the Davions have been since... ever. I can't think of a single "Black Hat" FedSuns villain. We had some people come close, like Michael Hasek, and that prince in the Dark Ages who was supposedly a spoiled brat, but the rest of the time, the Fedsuns is painted up like they can do no wrong. You never end up hearing about Fedcom soldiers torturing, committing war crimes, or resorting to cannibalism like many of the earlier writers portrayed their neighbors as doing.

The wolves' popularity takes a HUGE dip when they split into the Crusader Wolves and the Warden Wolves in Exile, though.

Up until Katherine Steiner, the Lyrans were very much in the same boat, but a bit... dumber. The same could be said about the Free Worlds League, but the authors loved depicting the Free Worlds League as going "full bureaucratic potato".

Edited by ice trey, 11 June 2014 - 01:04 AM.

[xMintaka]

lsp, on 10 June 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

Or you could not flock to the clans to begin with? they're gay anyways.

Ah, homophobia. For when people don't like something that has no effect on them whatsoever.