77 replies to this topic

[Diablobo]

I know we haven't even had a chance to actually play them yet, but everyone and their brother knows that speed is life for a light mech. 106.9 kph with speed tweak will be nowhere near fast enough to make up for a light's paper thin armor. It doesn't matter if you gave them Dual Ultra AC/20s, they just won't be able to take the hits, and their slow speed will guarantee they will get hit- A LOT. All the firepower in the world doesn't matter when you are dead after a couple of hits, so the "Better Clan Weapons" guys can take their glass cannons and learn the hard way.

Rather than allowing us to change the engines which would break the designs, why not just give us the fast Omnimechs? Obviously the Dasher is the fastest Clan Omni, but it is probably TOO fast, and it will be even harder to hit than a Spider and its tiny hitboxes. Since it will be a while before we have the Dasher, why not give us the other two fast Clan Omnimechs?

I'm talking about the Dragonfly and the Fenris. They would top out at 142.6 kph with speed tweak. That's not as fast as the IS lights, but it is fast enough to not get dusted. They don't have very much tonnage to pack many weapons, but neither do the IS lights. What really would make them shine is their heavier armor.

If we had the Fenris or Dragonfly, I guarantee that nowhere near as many would complain about Clan mechs being too slow anymore. Of course, there would be a LOT less people playing the Kit Fox and Adder, but they are crappy designs anyway- big deal. The Fenris is my choice for the next mech. I can imagine the Dragonfly with its JJs being a little OP to start with for a fast Clan mech, so we should get the Fenris.


TL;DR

Give us the Fenris and/or Dragonfly and the Clans will have their slow mech problem solved.

[El Bandito]

Diablobo, on 11 June 2014 - 01:25 AM, said:

I know we haven't even had a chance to actually play them yet, but everyone and their brother knows that speed is life for a light mech. 106.9 kph with speed tweak will be nowhere near fast enough to make up for a light's paper thin armor. It doesn't matter if you gave them Dual Ultra AC/20s, they just won't be able to take the hits, and their slow speed will guarantee they will get hit- A LOT. All the firepower in the world doesn't matter when you are dead after a couple of hits, so the "Better Clan Weapons" guys can take their glass cannons and learn the hard way. Rather than allowing us to change the engines which would break the designs, why not just give us the fast Omnimechs? Obviously the Dasher is the fastest Clan Omni, but it is probably TOO fast, and it will be even harder to hit than a Spider and its tiny hitboxes. Since it will be a while before we have the Dasher, why not give us the other two fast Clan Omnimechs? I'm talking about the Dragonfly and the Fenris. They would top out at 142.6 kph with speed tweak. That's not as fast as the IS lights, but it is fast enough to not get dusted. They don't have very much tonnage to pack many weapons, but neither do the IS lights. What really would make them shine is their heavier armor. If we had the Fenris or Dragonfly, I guarantee that nowhere near as many would complain about Clan mechs being too slow anymore. Of course, there would be a LOT less people playing the Kit Fox and Adder, but they are crappy designs anyway- big deal. The Fenris is my choice for the next mech. I can imagine the Dragonfly with its JJs being a little OP to start with for a fast Clan mech, so we should get the Fenris. TL;DR Give us the Fenris and/or Dragonfly and the Clans will have their slow mech problem solved.

Those two are Mediums and we already got Mediums covered. Wait few months while PGI creates them from scratch.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 June 2014 - 01:27 AM.

[NextGame]

The community are going to solve the clan light problem by not using them.

[AlexEss]

I am pretty sure the plan is to get ALL mechs not bound by legal red tape in the game so even if the first batch of lights are slow it is a self-correcting problem. I am sure the devs have taken this in to account, because flying in the face of what the troglodytes here think. PGIboth understand the game and have statistical data to back most of it.

So i am sure we will see both those mechs in the game at some point.

[Diablobo]

AlexEss, on 11 June 2014 - 01:30 AM, said:

I am pretty sure the plan is to get ALL mechs not bound by legal red tape in the game so even if the first batch of lights are slow it is a self-correcting problem. I am sure the devs have taken this in to account, because flying in the face of what the troglodytes here think. PGIboth understand the game and have statistical data to back most of it.

So i am sure we will see both those mechs in the game at some point.

There is legal red tape? I did not know that. What makes you say that? Is that why we don't have the Mad Dog or Hellbringer too?

It's probably just because they had to pick two from each weight class, and since the Timber Wolf is a no brainer, they took the Summoner because of its JJ and Jade Falcon popularity.

Since they are going to have to bring us the Mad Dog and Hellbringer, I just hope they give us the Fenris before them because we absolutely need a faster mech.

Edited by Diablobo, 11 June 2014 - 01:36 AM.

[AlexEss]

A bunch of IS mechs that were sourced from Macross/Robotech are off-limits. I am pretty sure all the clan mechs are original designs so there should not be any problems with them. But had i not added that caveat i would have had it rammed down my throat how some people can´t have their Marauder.

Any way look up FASA vs Harmony Gold for the full story.

Why no mad dog or hellbringer. Well they had to start somewhere.

Edited by AlexEss, 11 June 2014 - 01:38 AM.

[Cervantes88]

NextGame, on 11 June 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

The community are going to solve the clan light problem by not using them.

^ Jenners and Raven are still going to be kings of the lights.

[Khobai]

Quote

Give us the Fenris and/or Dragonfly and the Clans will have their slow mech problem solved.

Even if we get both those mechs, the Kitfox and Puma will still be slow... and the faster lights will just obsolete the slower ones. Thats not any kindve good solution. A good solution is one that makes all clan lights worth using.

[Diablobo]

Cervantes88, on 11 June 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

^ Jenners and Raven are still going to be kings of the lights.

The Fenris and Dragonfly will dominate the Jenners and Ravens.

[El Bandito]

Cervantes88, on 11 June 2014 - 01:36 AM, said:

^ Jenners and Raven are still going to be kings of the lights.

Thought Jenner was obsoleted by the Firestarter.

[Diablobo]

Khobai, on 11 June 2014 - 01:37 AM, said:

Even if we get both those mechs, the Kitfox and Puma will still be slow... and the faster lights will just obsolete the slower ones. Thats not any kindve good solution. A good solution is one that makes all clan lights worth using.

The Kit Fox and Puma will just have to stay out of the thick of things and provide sniper or LRM support. They just better hope they don't get return fire.

El Bandito, on 11 June 2014 - 01:37 AM, said:

Thought Jenner was obsoleted by the Firestarter.

That's true. The Firestarter will be the only IS fast light mech that will stand a chance against the Fenris and Dragonfly.

Edited by Diablobo, 11 June 2014 - 01:43 AM.

[Diablobo]

AlexEss, on 11 June 2014 - 01:35 AM, said:

A bunch of IS mechs that were sourced from Macross/Robotech are off-limits. I am pretty sure all the clan mechs are original designs so there should not be any problems with them. But had i not added that caveat i would have had it rammed down my throat how some people can´t have their Marauder.

Any way look up FASA vs Harmony Gold for the full story.

Why no mad dog or hellbringer. Well they had to start somewhere.

The Clan mechs have nothing to do with the Unseen and Harmony Gold. The Clans are all original designs and artwork, except for the IS refits.

[Cervantes88]

True I stopped playing a while ago so I haven't been up to date with that new light mech. So Firestarter is better than the Jenner my bad.

[Khobai]

Quote

Thought Jenner was obsoleted by the Firestarter.

Another problem that needs addressing. If you ask me the Firestarter should have a lower speed cap around 130-135kph. MWO should be based on the principle that if you cant outgun something you should be able to outrun it. A Jenner should be able to outrun a Firestarter since it cant outgun it. Thats proper game balance.

It will be interesting to see where exactly the clan lights fall, because they can outgun most other lights, however they are outgunned by most mediums, and quite a few mediums can go the same speed or faster as well. I personally think theyre DoA but well find out soon enough...

Edited by Khobai, 11 June 2014 - 01:53 AM.

[Diablobo]

El Bandito, on 11 June 2014 - 01:26 AM, said:

Those two are Mediums and we already got Mediums covered. Wait few months while PGI creates them from scratch.

Create them from scratch? You mean totally new and original designs? Why would they have to create something from scratch when they have to bring out the regular Omnis first?

[Mordin Ashe]

AlexEss, on 11 June 2014 - 01:30 AM, said:

I am pretty sure the plan is to get ALL mechs not bound by legal red tape in the game so even if the first batch of lights are slow it is a self-correcting problem. I am sure the devs have taken this in to account, because flying in the face of what the troglodytes here think. PGIboth understand the game and have statistical data to back most of it.

So i am sure we will see both those mechs in the game at some point.

While I agree that PGI has a good understanding of the game, that doesn't change a thing on fact that they have issues with balancing it. Most top Mechs only have PPCs and AC/5s, and have that on 1 button. This was clearly demonstrated in the last tournament. So, if you understand something is wrong, it doesn't mean PGI will actually do anything serious about it. Missiles are the same case, there are very few at higher ELO brackets which means they are simply not competitive.

Hope Clan Lights won't be the same case.

[Diablobo]

Khobai, on 11 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Another problem that needs addressing. If you ask me the Firestarter should have a lower speed cap around 130-135kph.

MWO should be based on the principle that if you cant outgun something you should be able to outrun it. A Jenner should be able to outrun a Firestarter since it cant outgun it.

The 6 med laser Jenner F most certainly can match the firepower of a Firestarter. The main problem with the Jenner is its crappy hitboxes and no shield arm.

[Diablobo]

Mordin Ashe, on 11 June 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

While I agree that PGI has a good understanding of the game, that doesn't change a thing on fact that they have issues with balancing it. Most top Mechs only have PPCs and AC/5s, and have that on 1 button. This was clearly demonstrated in the last tournament. So, if you understand something is wrong, it doesn't mean PGI will actually do anything serious about it. Missiles are the same case, there are very few at higher ELO brackets which means they are simply not competitive.

Hope Clan Lights won't be the same case.

I predict a grand total of zero Clan lights will be fielded by the best competitive teams. There is absolutely no reason to take one of them when taking more Novas or Stormcrows instead of Daishis and the heavier mechs would allow them to keep from going over the tonnage limits.

That just gave me a cool idea for a private match. Kit Foxes and Adders only. No one would be faster, and they would all be just as weak for armor.

[El Bandito]

Diablobo, on 11 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Create them from scratch? You mean totally new and original designs? Why would they have to create something from scratch when they have to bring out the regular Omnis first?

I mean to create the concept art, and models for those two first. There is not indication that PGI had started on them.

[627]

They will have another role... ever looked at that kit fox D? 35LRMs in stock config plus narc, on a 30 ton mech... aka a spider. This will be very interesting.

Sure, you won't ankle bite assaults like IS lights but you'll make some dents on 'em for sure..