77 replies to this topic

[Octavian]

Clan lights will have more firepower than most IS mediums. If 4x3 gets implemented, they will have a role as light hunters and extreme range fire support. They will be able to boat SSRMs and MPL and shred any Jenner/Firestarter/Raven that comes to backstab that huge Dire Wolf that's ripping up the rest of your team.

Once all TRO3050 clan mechs are released, clans will also have the Fire Moth (base speed higher than IS lights are capable of) and the Mist Lynx (118.8 kph base speed and jj's). The unreleased clan mediums (as mentioned earlier in here) have base speeds of 129.6 kph and still carry the same firepower as IS mediums.

[Pariah Devalis]

The Clan Lights we are being offered off the bat are, ton for ton, heavily armed. Their Clan XL engine lets them survive a side torso loss, which instantly increases their durability tremendously as you can turn half the mech into a shield against bigger machines. They are not scouts, and will die horribly if played as such, but are light medium mechs, who support the main line. In that role, they will be fine.

However, I want this:



The Arctic Cheetah.

This is a true Clan scout mech. 30 tons. Prime is ECM capable, jump jets, BAP, Flamer, 2 ERMlas, 2 LRM5, and a TAG, and runs at 130 KPH before speed tweak. That is 4 E 2 M, ECM capable if you are keeping score.

I want this, because it gives much needed ECM to the Clan touman as well as supplies a proper scout light mech for us. On the other hand, I fear if they released it nobody would take any other light mech in the game. The Arctic Cheetah is just so good.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 11 June 2014 - 06:35 AM.

[Gigastrike]

Diablobo, on 11 June 2014 - 02:13 AM, said:

I suppose the Kit Fox and Adder could be used to guard against infiltration, but the Stormcrow can do that better.

This is the real problem right here. Even with their lower speed, Clan lights will still have a role. An assortment of SSRMs will make them great at turning away IS lights, and they'll still have enough weight left over to mount a large energy weapon or two for long range.

The problem is that the Stormcrow outclasses the Adder in every way, so the only reason why you would ever want to take a Clan light is if you're playing under weight limitations, and you want to run every other mech very heavy.

Viable? Certainly. Worthwhile? As long as the Stormcrow remains as incredible as it is, only rarely.

Edited by Gigastrike, 11 June 2014 - 06:32 AM.

[Lucian Nostra]

El Bandito, on 11 June 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

This is what the Clans should have had as Light mech. It will take another 2 years and a freeborn Khan to make it a reality though.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Phantom

Engine 360 XL

Speed 151.2 km/h

Primary Configuration

1 x ER Medium Laser
1 x LRM-5
1 x ER Small Laser
1 x ECM Suite
1 x TAG
1 x Active Probe


Alt config A

1 x ER Medium Laser
2 x LRM-5
5 x ER Small Laser


Alt config C

1 x ER Medium Laser
1 x Flamer
8 x ER Small Laser
Targetting Computer

To bad it's a medium like the Ice Ferret and Viper suggested by the OP.. Guys need to learn your tonnages.. 35 tons is cut off for lights

[Pariah Devalis]

Gigastrike, on 11 June 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

This is the real problem right here. Even with their lower speed, Clan lights will still have a role. An assortment of SSRMs will make them great at turning away IS lights, and they'll still have enough weight left over to mount a large energy weapon or two for long range.

The problem is that the Stormcrow outclasses the Adder in every way, so the only reason why you would ever want to take a Clan light is if you're playing under weight limitations, and you want to run every other mech very heavy.

The counter to that is the 3x4 system. If your light mechs can gut enemy lights just as easily as the Stormcrow, you are wasting a medium slot in turning it into a light killer. Let the 3 lights on your team screen for enemy lights.

[El Bandito]

Lucian Nostra, on 11 June 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

To bad it's a medium like the Ice Ferret and Viper suggested by the OP.. Guys need to learn your tonnages.. 35 tons is cut off for lights

You are right. Hence I said should have.

[wanderer]

Right now, you have to look at lights as 3x4 portions of the landscape, as that is the PGI Destiny Of Matchmaking.

Clan lights aren't going to run off like IS ones- they're escorts, not freewheeling cavalry units that strike and fade. Arguably, they'll be well off arming with a mix of anti-IS light weapons like Streak racks and the usual far-reaching main guns for poking.

What they won't have is the agility to dodge through formations without taking solid hits in the process. They're fundamentally incompatible with IS light 'Mech doctrines.

[Innocent]

Balance wise i am more concerned with drop weight. The clans are being released with the top tonnage chassis for each weight class. For lights the weights that will be available are 30 and 35. For mediums it will be 50 and 55. For heavies 70 and 75. The only one not conforming is the warhawk at 85 with the 100 ton dire wolf.

If they try to match inner sphere with clans on the 4x3 proposed matchmaker the clans will always have more tons.

[Lykaon]

NextGame, on 11 June 2014 - 01:29 AM, said:

The community are going to solve the clan light problem by not using them.

Here is the thing with the Clan mechs and their roles.The current clan light mechs are not suited to the traditional light mech roles.

Spotter/harasser/recon/point capture

These roles are what the clan faster mediums (and Dasher) are designed for.The Fenris is the clan's primary E-war platform and the dragonfly is built for speed.These are the "light" mech role mechs of the clans.The dasher is the spotter and point capture mech the Fenris is the E-war/recon and the dragonfly is the harasser.

The slower (than IS lights) lower profile clan light mechs like the Puma are better suited for long range direct fire support.Their lower profiles and speed are sufficent to fire and quickly displace to avoid returning fire.

All the roles are available to the clans they just don't always use the same weight class as the Inner Sphere to do it.

[Xarian]

I notice we've moved from complaining about perceived weakness to complaining about perceived perceived weakness.

Pretty soon people will be complaining because they are worried that they might think that some unreleased mech is underpowered. Get a life, seriously. Go take a walk around the block. Grab a slurpee or something.

Edited by Xarian, 11 June 2014 - 08:23 AM.

[Diablobo]

3rdworld, on 11 June 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:

So I was looking for replacements for the Uller/Adder....Omni mechs 30-35 tons that took part in the invasion.

I can only find 3, the Uller, Adder, Hakyu

The Hakyu could probably be a decent replacement running 142.56 w/tweak w/JJs. But it is far less "iconic" than the Uller I would say.

The HANKYU was only first spotted at the Battle of Luthien. There is no need for a replacement of the Uller and Adder, there is a need for a fast scout mech. The only initial invasion mechs in the Tech Readout 3050 that fit that bill are the Fenris and Dragonfly. The Dasher too, but that is going to have to come when they figure out how to make a mech go over 200kph. If the Clans don't get the Fenris or Dragonfly, they will be too slow, and slow is weak. The Clans are not weak.

[Diablobo]

BLOOD WOLF, on 11 June 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

Can we wait till after they come out to give analysis.

Exactly what surprise unexpected capabilities can you think of that would make them more desirable to take instead of a Stormcrow or Nova? I'll save you the trouble. NOT A ONE.

We don't need to play them to know that a slow light mech that can't be made to go faster is DOA.

[Forte]

Mordin Ashe, on 11 June 2014 - 01:52 AM, said:

While I agree that PGI has a good understanding of the game, that doesn't change a thing on fact that they have issues with balancing it. Most top Mechs only have PPCs and AC/5s, and have that on 1 button. This was clearly demonstrated in the last tournament. So, if you understand something is wrong, it doesn't mean PGI will actually do anything serious about it. Missiles are the same case, there are very few at higher ELO brackets which means they are simply not competitive.

Hope Clan Lights won't be the same case.

Not to derail the conversation, yeah I'm sure they know there is a prob with poptarting meta. They have a few corrective issues coming that should help curb the most annoying aspect (jumping and falling back into cover without reprisal). As for the weapons aspect that becomes more difficult. I feel they got it right with Clans and burst fire to reduce pinpoint, but PPC is in a good place. High heat good damage and range. The ECM canceler is a bonus. I'd prefer it not be messed with, but possibly changing how some things work like, ballistic weapons converge slower than energy ones, PPCs have a slight delay (.3 sec?) for ramping up. I dunno they can be creative, but they also have to be careful not to ruin the weapon for people that don't play the meta but like that weapon.

As for missiles, there are quite a few reasons why they I don't think they are competitive, but as I'm not a top team player this is my opinion. ECM takes a lot out of them, not to mention AMS on every mech can make it really hard to stop a push. Also LRMs are good harasser or finisher weapons, but they require little player skill in their use besides positioning and target selection. You can't really surprise someone with your aim with them, and most of the top tier guys are differentiated by their fast aim or engagement selection.

[FupDup]

Clan lights? Is that some kind of new codeword for the Stormcrow?

[DAYLEET]

Livewyr, on 11 June 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

... after selling most of my IS inventory.

MONSTER!!! WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE INNER SPHERE BATTLEMECHS!

[Gyrok]

Khobai, on 11 June 2014 - 01:37 AM, said:

Even if we get both those mechs, the Kitfox and Puma will still be slow... and the faster lights will just obsolete the slower ones. Thats not any kindve good solution. A good solution is one that makes all clan lights worth using.

We got the light support mechs. The kit fox and adder both are designed more to support the larger mechs...which is how many IS lights are played (most 3L comp builds come to mind, JR7-F as well, FS9-E/H/S/K). There are very few dedicated scout mechs. Granted, the IS lights are faster...but not fast enough to outrun the possible SSRM24 you can mount on a kit fox. The oxide is an effective anti-light mech and brawler support right? Picture that a bit slower but with firepower on steroids. These will not so much be scout mechs as mechs that travel with the group and keep the IS light mechs from being a nuisance.

Wait and see...the kit fox will be stupid good for what it was meant to be, and poor at what it was not meant to be.

[Mcgral18]

Gyrok, on 11 June 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

We got the light support mechs. The kit fox and adder both are designed more to support the larger mechs...which is how many IS lights are played (most 3L comp builds come to mind, JR7-F as well, FS9-E/H/S/K). There are very few dedicated scout mechs. Granted, the IS lights are faster...but not fast enough to outrun the possible SSRM24 you can mount on a kit fox. The oxide is an effective anti-light mech and brawler support right? Picture that a bit slower but with firepower on steroids. These will not so much be scout mechs as mechs that travel with the group and keep the IS light mechs from being a nuisance.

Wait and see...the kit fox will be stupid good for what it was meant to be, and poor at what it was not meant to be.

The fact the SSRM6's have a 7 second cooldown might put a damper on that. 5.25 for the SSRM4, 3.5 for the 2 (same as IS).

The Ultra 10 apparently has a .14 jam chance, which seems kinda low. Although it also says the isUAC5 has a 0.10 jam chance while the current build has 20% according to smurfy...does that mean the isUltra5 is getting a buff, or the UAC10 has a 28% jam chance?

Either way, the Clan lights will be gunboats, not fast mechs. They'll also require both STs to be removed in order to be killed, so they'll get a few alpha strikes off. Which can be 50 damage.

They also make better lurm boats than some of the 55 tonners.

Edited by Mcgral18, 11 June 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[L A V A]

SSRM24s...

Bye bye IS lights.

As a light pilot, I can't wait to make the swap to the Clan mechs, as the IS lights have been marginalized to almost the point of uselessness.

[DAYLEET]

xLAVAx, on 11 June 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

SSRM24s...

Bye bye IS lights.

As a light pilot, I can't wait to make the swap to the Clan mechs, as the IS lights have been marginalized to almost the point of uselessness.

clan streak can only fire 2 at a time i believe. Just to be safe ill be running my dual ams firestarter and negates all the clan light streaker lol

Edited by DAYLEET, 11 June 2014 - 09:40 AM.

[Jun Watarase]

Its funny that in the current implementation, streaks are only useful against lights because they bypass hit registration issues and only if you boat them.

Even if clan streaks fired all missles at once nobody would take them except to kill lights. Sure you can fire 24 streaks...of which a good portion hits the ground pointlessly and the rest sandblast all over. At least normal SRMs mostly hit the torso at close range, rather than having like 1/4th go for the arms/legs.