40 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

I paid for something that in the future would give me extra loyalty points (as they didn't specify when it would be).

uhm
go back to the CC posts and such back when PP was announced and put up for sale. Look at the deadlines that were given for CW. Don't use the "didn't specify" tagline, that's a load of crap

[Noth]

Xtrekker, on 15 July 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Sales drive interest to your product, drive interest away from a competing product, or increase revenue. To offer a sale indicates a need for such. Sales don't just happen because it's a "special day". Comparing it to other products is irrelevant to this basic purpose.

I can't tell if you are making a point in favor or against my statement. I think you just confirmed exactly what I said.

Hahaha. Steam sales. Steam has no reason what so ever to offer sales. WoT and their sales, they too have pretty much no reason at all to offer sales. Yet both do.

My point is that just having a sale is not indicative of the product failing or doing well, unless it is a mass sale (kinda like a clearance sale),which MWO has not done.

Sandpit, on 15 July 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

uhm
go back to the CC posts and such back when PP was announced and put up for sale. Look at the deadlines that were given for CW. Don't use the "didn't specify" tagline, that's a load of crap

Those deadlines were not related to the pheonix packages promise though. We have the everything that was promised to be delivered in the pheonix packages. The medallions were promised and we have those, CW however was not promised in the package and without CW the medallions that we already have won't give loyalty points as there is no reason for them to. The phoenix package faq flat out said when CW was ready that the medallions would give you the benefit.

Edited by Noth, 15 July 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[Sandpit]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 03:30 PM, said:

Those deadlines were not related to the pheonix packages promise though. We have the everything that was promised to be delivered in the pheonix packages.

read my previous posts

faction medallions were never advertised as an aesthetic cockpit item
CW's release date being advertised during that sale are directly related to it as, you and a few others in this very thread stated, you can't have loyalty points without CW, so those that purchased it exepecting their loyalty point bonuses for CW bought it under the pretense that CW would, in fact, be delivered when PGi said it would.
not
6 months
1 year
1 1/2 years
2 years later

even if I did agree with your assertion, which I don't, how does your opinion on "you got what you paid for" change the fact that some customers don't feel that way? How does it change the opinions of those that don't buy into that?
It doesn't. You're content with the items you got delivered and feel you got everything. I don't. I'm not telling you not to have your opinion, you're telling me, and those like me, we shouldn't feel that way.

[Noth]

Sandpit, on 15 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

read my previous posts

faction medallions were never advertised as an aesthetic cockpit item
CW's release date being advertised during that sale are directly related to it as, you and a few others in this very thread stated, you can't have loyalty points without CW, so those that purchased it exepecting their loyalty point bonuses for CW bought it under the pretense that CW would, in fact, be delivered when PGi said it would.
not
6 months
1 year
1 1/2 years
2 years later

even if I did agree with your assertion, which I don't, how does your opinion on "you got what you paid for" change the fact that some customers don't feel that way? How does it change the opinions of those that don't buy into that?
It doesn't. You're content with the items you got delivered and feel you got everything. I don't. I'm not telling you not to have your opinion, you're telling me, and those like me, we shouldn't feel that way.

Because people can get exactly what they pay for and still complain that they didn't. Our society has become so bloated with entitlement (and lack of willingness to actually research what they are buying) that I really can't take a consumer saying that they didn't get what they payed for when what they payed for is exactly what they got. No where did the founders nor PP promise CW. The PP promised something for when CW was implemented, but not CW itself. PP gave us exactly what it promised as did Founders. Now PGI over all has not, with the delays to CW, but that does not mean the packages were not delivered. Basically direct your anger at the actual problem (laziness, lack of manpower, etc of pgi) than claims of not getting what was promised in the packages (when the complaint is about no CW and that was never ever promised in any package)

Edited by Noth, 15 July 2014 - 03:45 PM.

[Sandpit]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

The PP promised something for when CW was implemented, but not CW itself. PP gave us exactly what it promised as did Founders. Now PGI over all has not, with the delays to CW, but that does not mean the packages were not delivered.

"hey guys, check it out! I've got this new car to sell you! It's got this cool feature but it needs another component. It's an extra xx dollars but the other component will be released in xx days so you can't use it right away but you'll be able to use it in xx days"
1 year after xx days and a "new" released date still an additional 5-6 months away minimum it's still not here

So yea, it was advertised, it was promised, it was insinuated that you'd have them and they'd be useful within a certain timeframe. Almost 2 years later you're still waiting. Your entire argument of "CW wasn't promised" is invalid due to those reasons.

So if you were the customer buying that car and paying for that cool feature, you wouldn't call the dealership and complain a year later? If you answer anything other than "yes" you're one of two things
1.) A liar
2.) Far too complacent and docile for your own good

Again, your opinion differs. Hey, that's great. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not telling you that you're wrong. You telling others that their opinion is invalid IS wrong though.

[Devilsfury]

Sandpit, on 15 July 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

"hey guys, check it out! I've got this new car to sell you! It's got this cool feature but it needs another component. It's an extra xx dollars but the other component will be released in xx days so you can't use it right away but you'll be able to use it in xx days"
1 year after xx days and a "new" released date still an additional 5-6 months away minimum it's still not here

So yea, it was advertised, it was promised, it was insinuated that you'd have them and they'd be useful within a certain timeframe. Almost 2 years later you're still waiting. Your entire argument of "CW wasn't promised" is invalid due to those reasons.

So if you were the customer buying that car and paying for that cool feature, you wouldn't call the dealership and complain a year later? If you answer anything other than "yes" you're one of two things
1.) A liar
2.) Far too complacent and docile for your own good

Again, your opinion differs. Hey, that's great. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not telling you that you're wrong. You telling others that their opinion is invalid IS wrong though.

For once...I completely agree with you Sandpit!!

[Noth]

Sandpit, on 15 July 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

"hey guys, check it out! I've got this new car to sell you! It's got this cool feature but it needs another component. It's an extra xx dollars but the other component will be released in xx days so you can't use it right away but you'll be able to use it in xx days"
1 year after xx days and a "new" released date still an additional 5-6 months away minimum it's still not here

So yea, it was advertised, it was promised, it was insinuated that you'd have them and they'd be useful within a certain timeframe. Almost 2 years later you're still waiting. Your entire argument of "CW wasn't promised" is invalid due to those reasons.

So if you were the customer buying that car and paying for that cool feature, you wouldn't call the dealership and complain a year later? If you answer anything other than "yes" you're one of two things
1.) A liar
2.) Far too complacent and docile for your own good

Again, your opinion differs. Hey, that's great. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not telling you that you're wrong. You telling others that their opinion is invalid IS wrong though.

The difference between a car and a digital game that I play on the companies server and they can update without me having to go out of my way makes the comparison really dumb in my eyes. Online games tend to be ever expanding, updated regularly and are easily maintained by the developer.

A car I'm completely responsible for maintaining. It does not get updates from the company regularly. It cannot magically have new features added without a cost to me and me going well out of my way.

Two completely different products with two completely different platforms.

If PP promised CW then yeah I'd be angry at the packages, because I did not get that with PP. What it did promise was hanging cockpit medallions would have a purpose come CW. I have the medallions thus I have the part that PP promised. I don't have the CW part which was not promised with PP. Again, don't say a package didn't give you what it promised. Your problem lies with CW and CW alone. That is my point. I'm angry at PGI for delaying CW, not for not giving me what I payed for in the packages.

To me, if you have the medallions then you have what you paid for. period. I completely fail to see how PP did not give you what it advertised. Show me exactly where PP promised CW (and no, the medallions having an effect in CW is not a promise of CW coming with the package).

Edited by Noth, 15 July 2014 - 04:05 PM.

[Malleus011]

PGI told us that the medallions and the Phoenix hero 'mechs would deliver additional loyalty points.

The Loyalty function we purchased has never been implemented; therefore, PGI failed to deliver what they promised in the Phoenix sale. This seems pretty black and white.

[Noth]

Malleus011, on 15 July 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

PGI told us that the medallions and the Phoenix hero 'mechs would deliver additional loyalty points.

The Loyalty function we purchased has never been implemented; therefore, PGI failed to deliver what they promised in the Phoenix sale. This seems pretty black and white.

Read the faqs on it. It says it would generate additional loyalty points when CW was implemented. This is an example of not actually researching what you buy. PP promised that you'd have those medallions, not that you'd have CW to make them work.

[Sandpit]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

The difference between a car and a digital game

is that you choose to ignore the example and turn it into a "car" example instead of a "we didn't deliver what we said we'd deliver" example.
the only difference is that your opinion differs. Which, again for the third? time, is fine. That's great. There's nothing wrong with that. Don't, however, tell someone else they're "wrong" because they have a different viewpoint. Stop validating things PGI has done and said. First and foremost, it's not your place. No matter what you say and think, it's not going to change the views, opinions, and perceptions of someone else.
Secondly, it's not going to accomplish anything. You're just wanting to show me that I'm wrong and PGI isn't "bad". Again, that's your opinion. That's great, use your opinion to make YOUR spending and support decisions. Don't, however, tell me that your opinion is "right" and mine is "wrong" so I should make MY decisions based on YOUR opinions.

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Read the faqs on it. It says it would generate additional loyalty points when CW was implemented. This is an example of not actually researching what you buy. PP promised that you'd have those medallions, not that you'd have CW to make them work.

I love how you CONTINUE to completely discount the fact that it was sold in conjunction with a promised deadline. The deadline that was "corrected" when Russ stated "Hey, I got good news! We got the license extended so we can FINALLY JUST NOW begin working on CW"
AFTER the sales were finalized.
Not before
Not during
AFTER purchases were made and finalized.

It's great that you don't agree with that. PGI needs people like you to keep the doors open.That doesn't mean the rest of us agree with you and that we should agree with you because "my opinion is right and yours is wrong"

Edited by Sandpit, 15 July 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[Noth]

Sandpit, on 15 July 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

is that you choose to ignore the example and turn it into a "car" example instead of a "we didn't deliver what we said we'd deliver" example.
the only difference is that your opinion differs. Which, again for the third? time, is fine. That's great. There's nothing wrong with that. Don't, however, tell someone else they're "wrong" because they have a different viewpoint. Stop validating things PGI has done and said. First and foremost, it's not your place. No matter what you say and think, it's not going to change the views, opinions, and perceptions of someone else.
Secondly, it's not going to accomplish anything. You're just wanting to show me that I'm wrong and PGI isn't "bad". Again, that's your opinion. That's great, use your opinion to make YOUR spending and support decisions. Don't, however, tell me that your opinion is "right" and mine is "wrong" so I should make MY decisions based on YOUR opinions.

Look, I just would like to see people direct their problems to the actual problem (CW) and not sidetrack to things that really don't matter (PP having PP medallions but not having CW thus lied to about PP). So, I could careless if you feel ripped off or lied to about the PP (down to the letter though, you weren't even if you feel you are), that is not the real issue. The issue is the lack of CW. I'm just sick of seeing people say that PGI lied to them with the Founders and PP when no, they didn't lie to you with those. They lied to you about CW itself (hard to call delays lies though, but whatever).

[Sandpit]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

I'm just sick of seeing people say that PGI lied to them with the Founders and PP when no, they didn't lie to you with those.

I can understand that. That doesn't change the fact that trying to discount them and their opinions is wrong.

It's also your viewpoint that they didn't lie. To others, they did.

[Noth]

Sandpit, on 15 July 2014 - 04:46 PM, said:

I can understand that. That doesn't change the fact that trying to discount them and their opinions is wrong.

It's also your viewpoint that they didn't lie. To others, they did.

Feeling lied to and being lied to are not the same. You can feel lied to when told the truth and vice-versa.

[Sandpit]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

Feeling lied to and being lied to are not the same. You can feel lied to when told the truth and vice-versa.

again, that doesn't invalidate someone who feels they were lied to because in their eyes they WERE lied to. This has nothing to do with the topic though. You're not going to have a CW topic without having people who feel they were lied to. Your opinion on whether or not that's "valid" doesn't change it and it doesn't make their opinion "wrong"

If you don't agree with it, again, that's great. Don't agree with it. Nobody is trying to convince you otherwise. Don't respond with "you're wrong" because then you just turn the entire thread into a circular argument over definitions of stuff like opinions and lying. Either don't respond to those comments (because they aren't directed at you in the first place, they're feedback for PGI and again your opinion on their opinion is completely irrelevant), don't "defend" PGI, because again, that's not what you or anyone else here should feel the need to do. They have plenty of forum accounts of their own that they could easily use to jump into threads like this and give some information, CC posts, etc. that they can use to defend themselves, they're big boys and girls, I'm sure they can handle it

Just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them any less valid. Lied to or not, they feel PGI slighted them and they're voicing their concerns about it. It's really that plain and simple

[Lindonius]

Noth, on 15 July 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:

(hard to call delays lies though, but whatever).

No it's actually quite easy. Here, let me show you.........

They said, in writing, that CW would be out 30 days after open beta. After the Phoenix pack sales were finalised, they announced, in writing, that CW hadn't even left the design phase because they were waiting for a license renewal.

Therefore when they said that CW was coming 90 days after open beta, THEY LIED.

See it wasn't that difficult at all was it?

[Pertinax75]

Im sorry i ever spent a dime on this game. Its sad because the skeleton would make for something great to build upon.

I bought 30$ of stuff in january or so and i stop playing 5 months, not even a new map to keep me interested.

That recent video "We swear that this time its coming guys, we swear. Well at least the guild tags and guild chat" gave me flashbacks of Mark Jacobs talking about warhammer online.

Solution would be to stop playing i guess so they stop putting their guys on some new 40$ mech to milk people for

[TLBFestus]

I've come to the conclusion that many of the people like Noth, who defend completely unacceptable "delays", core pillars being turned into drinking straws, and don't feel cheated and/or lied to by PGI are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

Here, saved some of you the "google";

Quote

People suffering from Stockholm syndrome come to identify with and even care for their captors in a desperate, usually unconscious act of self-preservation.

Honestly, you either believe that we were promised certain things (I won't go into the whole list) that haven't or won't ever be delivered, or have already been changed ( ie., 3PV and Never having to drop with others using 3PV), in essence "lied" to, or you don't and you can think of many justifications for the lack of "on time delivery" and and that these were just promises, not contractual.

Fine. I'm good with that. Enjoy your opinion. My momma told me never try to reason with a crazy person (and don't look into their eyes), and don't wake up sleep walkers. So I want Noth to know i respect his opinon even though I don't share it, and it's just coincidence that I'm not looking him in the eyes.

[JHackworth]

TLBFestus, on 15 July 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

I've come to the conclusion that many of the people like Noth, who defend completely unacceptable "delays", core pillars being turned into drinking straws, and don't feel cheated and/or lied to by PGI are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome

Here, saved some of you the "google";



Honestly, you either believe that we were promised certain things (I won't go into the whole list) that haven't or won't ever be delivered, or have already been changed ( ie., 3PV and Never having to drop with others using 3PV), in essence "lied" to, or you don't and you can think of many justifications for the lack of "on time delivery" and and that these were just promises, not contractual.

Fine. I'm good with that. Enjoy your opinion. My momma told me never try to reason with a crazy person (and don't look into their eyes), and don't wake up sleep walkers. So I want Noth to know i respect his opinon even though I don't share it, and it's just coincidence that I'm not looking him in the eyes.

I don't get it. If you dislike the game and policies so much, why dafuq do you continue to play and spend time on the forums? Am I disappointed that PGI didn't come through with all the things they said they were going to do? You bet. But, this idea that PGI owes us anything is utterly inane. People think that just because you spent a few dollars 'supporting' a game's development means that they are magically stakeholders in it. NEWSFLASH, um no. Of course PGI needs to consider the expectations of its players and fans seriously, it ignores them at their peril--but your satisfaction is not the entire consideration.

People who don't make software think they know everything about making this work. Go write your own big stompy robot game if you can do better. I'll even crowdfund you. And, oh, I'll even do it without having any expectations whatsoever that you'll get it marginally right out of the gate.

Edited by JHackworth, 30 July 2014 - 02:08 AM.

[Dirgez]

wow lots of sour grapes in here.

What PGI is guilty of is failing to meet people's expectations. Yes PGI had an optimistic (a little too optimistic) view of what they could accomplish and then reality proved much more difficult. (Coding is hard)

I find it slightly amusing to read these arguments from warped individuals with entitlement issues based off of feelies and misconceptions.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Tombstoner, on 11 June 2014 - 05:09 AM, said:

I'm still waiting on them to deliver what was promised for the founders package.....

What are you missing?

Your mechs should be sitting in your mechbays. complete with "unique" skin and 25% bonus to C-bill gain.
You have your shiny founders tag.
You should have received your Premium time at the same time as your mechs. Same with the MC bonus.
Your name is in the credits here: http://mwomercs.com/credits

That's all that was promised for Gold level founders.
This is what you bought for $120 USD.

Do I feel there are other things that should have been delivered now that they said were going to be part of the game that haven't made it in yet? Yes, I do. But as for what Founders bought you... it was delivered.