20 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Jump-jet popularity soared when AC2 damage was lowered. This is true, correct?

Jump-jets have been in MWO since the beginning and were actually easier to use and shoot with prior to 3PV and Jump-jet shake being added, but you never saw whole teams using jump-jet attacks until now.

The Scales of Balance tip in unusual and unexpected ways. Because a few months ago I would say the AC2 Jagermech was the most popular play-style.

Not saying nerf anything, it's just an observation.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lightfoot, on 11 June 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Jump-jet popularity soared when AC2 damage was lowered. This is true, correct?

Jump-jets have been in MWO since the beginning and were actually easier to use and shoot with prior to 3PV and Jump-jet shake being added, but you never saw whole teams using jump-jet attacks until now.

The Scales of Balance tip in unusual and unexpected ways. Because a few months ago I would say the AC2 Jagermech was the most popular play-style.

Not saying nerf anything, it's just an observation.

Nope. Not correct.

Poptart has been dominant meta for a year. AC40 jagers were far more popular than ac2. AC2 dps nerf was very recent and honestly, a big fat whoop de doo for how much it affected average gameplay.

[zortesh]

Yeah ac2's have never been powerful weapons, why they were nerfed i do not know, someone didn't like screenshake I guess.

[l33tworks]

Not sure why they nerfed AC2 rate of fire. Its was DOT weapon. Lowering its DPS only made you want to run pop tart FLD builds even more. Now with the clans they have DOT again, so why did they not want DOT a few months ago but now they do?

[Lightfoot]

l33tworks, on 11 June 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

Not sure why they nerfed AC2 rate of fire. Its was DOT weapon. Lowering its DPS only made you want to run pop tart FLD builds even more. Now with the clans they have DOT again, so why did they not want DOT a few months ago but now they do?

Clan tech just does too much damage and PGI had no other way out. MWO's mechs are too weak to be in a full Battletech game, a game where all weapons work as described in Battletech, so without tougher mechs PGI will find themselves painted into a corner, so to speak.

What everyone seems to misunderstand is that attack duration does not affect accuracy per say, since it may allow you to hit as often as not. Players and Devs thinking burst and spread weapons are going to grant damage reduction are going to have a big surprise on June 17th. I have used burst UACs in MW3 and they worked with higher accuracy than non-burst ACs, but that was a lag-festival.

Edited by Lightfoot, 11 June 2014 - 08:16 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

zortesh, on 11 June 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Yeah ac2's have never been powerful weapons, why they were nerfed i do not know, someone didn't like screenshake I guess.

Keep in mind that in order to compare AC/2 with something like an AC/10 or AC/20, you have to say "two AC/2s are _____ compared to an AC/10" because an AC/10 weighs twice as much and takes up 7x more slots.

Two AC/2s is not too weak of a weapon system, and I think they were nerfed specifically because a single AC/2 generated the same DPS as an AC/10 with twice the range and half the weight & 1/7th the slots. Now you can fairly compare 12 tons of AC/2 with 12 tons of large-bore AC.

[Kassatsu]

zortesh, on 11 June 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Yeah ac2's have never been powerful weapons, why they were nerfed i do not know, someone didn't like screenshake I guess.

Didn't they just lower the rof? Probably some lazy fix relating to ghost heat triggering when it shouldn't.

Besides the range decrease, which did exactly nothing for anyone that was actually using them. 0.4 damage at what, 1.3km on alpine? Oh boy, racking up the kills there Mr. AC2 sniper.

Edited by Kassatsu, 11 June 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The big AC2 nerf was the ghost heat limit, not the dps reduction nor the 3x to 2x range nerf. It made it effectively impossible to do that stupid rapid fire AC2 tactic (lower damage output, worse damage concentration, but huge psychological impact), which was a huge part of the popularity of the AC2 Jager.

[Lightfoot]

Prosperity Park, on 11 June 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

Keep in mind that in order to compare AC/2 with something like an AC/10 or AC/20, you have to say "two AC/2s are _____ compared to an AC/10" because an AC/10 weighs twice as much and takes up 7x more slots.

Two AC/2s is not too weak of a weapon system, and I think they were nerfed specifically because a single AC/2 generated the same DPS as an AC/10 with twice the range and half the weight & 1/7th the slots. Now you can fairly compare 12 tons of AC/2 with 12 tons of large-bore AC.

Duration weapons are supposed to give you a damage boost in DPS/ton of payload space used though. I think the AC2 still does, but maybe too low now?

[Lynx7725]

zortesh, on 11 June 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Yeah ac2's have never been powerful weapons, why they were nerfed i do not know, someone didn't like screenshake I guess.

Boat AC2s were fairly powerful as an in-close, brawler build due to the high RoF. It's not an easy build to run though, and is limited to certain chassis. Certainly, IMO, not a big reason for any adjustments.

There was a period of time when Quad AC2s became popular as a long-distance plinker. As in, really, really long range. I suspect one reason why AC2 got adjusted was to encourage people to get closer and start beating each other around.

[FupDup]

In a game where precision alpha strikes rule the day, nerfing the weapon with one of the lowest levels of frontloaded damage in the game made absolutely no sense.

[Sephlock]

Lynx7725, on 11 June 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

Boat AC2s were fairly powerful as an in-close, brawler build due to the high RoF. It's not an easy build to run though, and is limited to certain chassis. Certainly, IMO, not a big reason for any adjustments.

There was a period of time when Quad AC2s became popular as a long-distance plinker. As in, really, really long range. I suspect one reason why AC2 got adjusted was to encourage people to get closer and start beating each other around.

OTOH AC/2s were fun to use, and one of the things that made using them fun was the ability to pester poptarts and then duck behind cover.

Being able to 6x dakka them was the BEST. THING. EVER.

[DONTOR]

Holy hell what is your ELO (no offence) but AC2 jaegers were not the most common... ever. They are just far worse at range now and thus much less popular/ effective. I dont think it had anything to do with JJ using players.

[DAYLEET]

the "nerf" happened after the tournament, about when the meta was extended outside the tryhard range. Everyone and his mother now at least has a ppc and jj... Even me, since i got the Arrow and other BJ, realy easy to get used to jj, Went back to my none jj treb for some fun tonight and it made evident the fact that jj are a must, if i didnt try to jj 200times a match i didnt once. Its stupid how something thats limited like that has such a big positive impact. Sucks to be the rest.

[Sodapop]

"...but you never saw whole teams using jump-jet attacks until now."

Nah, pretty sure that playstyle has been around for a while. The first team to run all poptart 3D's was maybe... DV8?

[Lukoi Banacek]

Lightfoot, on 11 June 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

Jump-jet popularity soared when AC2 damage was lowered. This is true, correct?

Only PGI knows for certain as only they have the metrics. That being said, my anecdotal experience tells me your statement is grossly inaccurate. Poptarts have been the meta for a long time now and AC2 were never a significant part of that meta or in any way an anchor holding people back from poptarting. They certainly were never a counter to poptarts.

Statistics wise our watchlist of some 600-700 pilots saw no uptick in poptarting after the ac2 nerf.

[El Bandito]

Bring back the Dakka Jager! PGI is anti-fun!

Edited by El Bandito, 11 June 2014 - 09:57 PM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 11 June 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Bring back the Dakka Jager! PGI is anti-fun!

PGI is Plankton.

[Curccu]

El Bandito, on 11 June 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

Bring back the Dakka Jager! PGI is anti-fun!

Ghost heat kinda killed AC2 fun.. aka Jagermech with 5x AC2 on macroed chainfire that sound...
and back in the day when they did 4 DPS each it did some nice damage also...

[Lightfoot]

Maybe you are mostly correct. I don't use Jump Jets (j-jet shake blocks weapons use with a joystick) and they pose no special challenge when I face players using them, but I had training to counter this tactic back in the MW4 Vengeance League where poptarts actually exploited a game design flaw. So maybe I just don't notice the pop-tarts until I see 4-5 airborne mechs coming at me.

Normally I find the J-Jetters easier to shoot, you just wait till they reach their apogee and they hang in your sights for a second. Of course don't just sit there staring at them, that's what they need you to do.

But the AC2 Jaggers were very commonplace at the time Ghost Heat and the Gauss desync were added. Seemed like there were 4-5 on every team I played on. A few AC40 Jaggers too, but usually only one per team. I think players notice the Mech that kills them more than the others. My mechs usually carry BAP and advanced sensors and I lock my targets always so I know what I am up against.

My ELO? Well I saw Dago and Kon the other day. I have seen Bishop too. Usually I drop with non-forum users though, which is likely 90% of MWO users I am guessing.