55 replies to this topic

[Jin Ma]

Clan medium and lights are much larger than their IS counterparts

[Suko]

Anyone have the specs on Clan ECM? I still have nightmares of how OP the IS ECM was at launch and I'm amazed the Clan version doesn't cloak the mech from the visible light spectrum and make LRMs explode inside the enemy mech's missile tubes.

[Suko]

Pezzer, on 12 June 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

Clan LRMs seem to be superior to normal LRMs in every way. Targeting computers are almost useless or not yet implemented. C-PPCs and ACs are the Clans' largest shortcomings (along with mediocre speed), but their sheer firepower and seemingly greater armor more than makes up for that.

I saw this, too. I thought an LRM (lets use LRM 15 for example) would take ~4 seconds to unload its full salvo of 15 missiles, then the cooldown would start. This seems like a great trade off for less heat, crits, weight, and the bonus of target dmg at <180m.

The C ERPPC is another example of a weapon with NO downside compared to its IS version. Sure, the extra 5 dmg is dealt to surrounding areas, but it's still more dmg than the IS gets at the same heat profile.

The autocannons seem relatively balanced. Again, I would slow down their burst rate so there's more of a chance it splashes a target, but it's better than nothing.

I stick by my original statement: Clans aren't as OP as TT, but still WAY better than their current IS counterparts.

I haven't seen SSRM 6 in action yet. I wonder how ridiculous that is.

Edited by ShadowVFX, 12 June 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Pygar]

ShadowVFX, on 12 June 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

Anyone have the specs on Clan ECM? I still have nightmares of how OP the IS ECM was at launch and I'm amazed the Clan version doesn't cloak the mech from the visible light spectrum and make LRMs explode inside the enemy mech's missile tubes.

I would guess it will probably be much the same system, but lighter.

Edit: And no, targeting computers are not functioning currently- for the next couple weeks they are still "placeholder" gear like Command Console. (So if you have a TC mounted in one of your mechs, strip it for now.)

Edited by Pygar, 12 June 2014 - 02:40 PM.

[Pale Jackal]

Yes, I was afraid that Clan LRMs would be ridiculously OP, but I figured that PGI would at least give them an extended cooldown. However, it doesn't seem like it. I mean, sure, Clans are stuck with their stock engines (which can be bad, I'd probably put Clan XL 300s in all of them, if I had the choice), but their stock engines also prevent them from dying due to a lost side torso.

Clan Streaks, conversely, don't seem that bad. Clan SSRM6 have a cool down of 7 seconds, which seems fair. Haven't seen them in use yet though. I imagine I might change my tune when 24 are coming my way.

Edited by Pale Jackal, 12 June 2014 - 02:46 PM.

[Pygar]

ShadowVFX, on 12 June 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

I saw this, too. I thought an LRM (lets use LRM 15 for example) would take ~4 seconds to unload its full salvo of 15 missiles, then the cooldown would start. This seems like a great trade off for less heat, crits, weight, and the bonus of target dmg at <180m.

The C ERPPC is another example of a weapon with NO downside compared to its IS version. Sure, the extra 5 dmg is dealt to surrounding areas, but it's still more dmg than the IS gets at the same heat profile.

The autocannons seem relatively balanced. Again, I would slow down their burst rate so there's more of a chance it splashes a target, but it's better than nothing.

I stick by my original statement: Clans aren't as OP as TT, but still WAY better than their current IS counterparts.

I haven't seen SSRM 6 in action yet. I wonder how ridiculous that is.

Now I am more sure than ever that last weeks AC nerf was to balance Clan weapons and not IS weapons. The big bore UACs are terrifyingly powerful, and they probably cannot slow the bursts down without throwing the weapon out of balance with smaller Clan UACs. (at the end of the day, the UAC20 has to be able to spit out 5 point shells faster than CAC or UAC5s can put out 5 point bursts....otherwise the smaller cannons are better and nobody will use UAC20s.)

[Sephlock]

ShadowVFX, on 12 June 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I've been watching the NGNG stream and a few different Youtube videos showcasing the Clans in action. My initial thoughts are that Clan tech isn't as OP as TT, but it still feels very superior to IS tech. I think the game will be dominated by Clan mechs stomping all over IS for the first few weeks after they come out.

Highlights:
- Clan UAC sound amazing.
- LRMs fire much faster than I thought they would.
- The Ryoken is gigantic but has a beautiful cockpit.
- Now I can spray my name in the snow with yellow lasers.

What are some of your thoughts?

NGNG Stream:
http://nogutsnogalaxy.net/ngng.php

They are just shy of perfect. They just need to hire a sound engineer to turn the better sounds into AWESOME sounds (there should be some stuff in the public domain that sounds pretty impressive too).

Things look good, the longer beam durations are less efficient but they LOOK COOL SO I DON'T CARE .

The dakka is sweet (although the ultras seem really finicky, even when they aren't jammed"

I really have to hand it to PGI.

Now I just have to grit my teeth and wait for the crying to get the fun things nerfed one by one. First the ac dakka and LURM bukkake, because when you wander out into the open like an idiot, without so much as a meatshield teammate in front of you, you get blinded when four of five enemy mechs fire at you at once.

[Pezzer]

Pygar, on 12 June 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

Now I am more sure than ever that last weeks AC nerf was to balance Clan weapons and not IS weapons. The big bore UACs are terrifyingly powerful, and they probably cannot slow the bursts down without throwing the weapon out of balance with smaller Clan UACs. (at the end of the day, the UAC20 has to be able to spit out 5 point shells faster than CAC or UAC5s can put out 5 point bursts....otherwise the smaller cannons are better and nobody will use UAC20s.)

Nope, people will use the big bores to make single component destruction easier and to save tonnage. Just like IS ACs.

[Lostdragon]

Won't be able to get on the PTS, do you guys think the way Clan ACs work should be implemented for IS as well? Would that resolve the FLD meta issues?

[Khobai]

Quote

Pretty sure they already did...last week when they nerfed all ACs.

Not really since the clan UACs have longer range. Which undoes last patch's nerfs.

Clan UAC20 = ~8dps (over 50% more dps than an AC20)
Clan UAC10 = ~6dps (50% more dps than an AC10)

Now on top of that the Daishi can have x3 UAC20s or x4 AC10s. Giving it ~24 DPS. And even more than that after you add a couple secondary lasers.

To put that into perspective, ballistic mechs like the x4 AC5 Jager that did 13-14 dps were considered overpowered before. The Daishi does very close to twice that dps. So I dont think asking for a UAC10/UAC20 nerf is entirely unreasonable.

UAC20 dps should be lowered to around 5.5dps. And the UAC10 should be lowered to around 4.5dps. Thats more consistent with previous damage levels. And still gives the UACs a nice dps buff over standard ACs.

Additionally the Daishi's ballistic side torsos should come with a penalty to ballistic cooldown. Similar to how the daishis arms come with a penalty to energy weapon cooldown. That would further help lower the Daishi's dps and balance its ballistic loadouts vs its non-ballistic loadouts.

Edited by Khobai, 12 June 2014 - 03:34 PM.

[Pygar]

Lostdragon, on 12 June 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

Won't be able to get on the PTS, do you guys think the way Clan ACs work should be implemented for IS as well? Would that resolve the FLD meta issues?

Currently, I don't the D.O.T. thing is going to work like many of it's biggest enthusiasts had hoped- the burst rate is so fast on many of the Clan guns that they really don't seem to matter....in fact people who have gotten to fly them all seem to like the burst fire better than single shell.

Khobai, on 12 June 2014 - 03:23 PM, said:

Not really since the clan UACs have longer range. Which undoes last patch's nerfs.

Clan UAC20 = ~8dps (over 50% more dps than an AC20)
Clan UAC10 = ~6 dps (50% more dps than an AC10)

Now on top of that the Daishi can have x3 UAC20s or x4 AC10s. Giving it ~24 DPS. More than that after you add secondary lasers.

To put that into perspective, mechs like the x4 AC5 Jager, that did 13-14 dps were considered overpowered before. The Daishi does very close to twice that dps. So I dont think asking for a UAC10/UAC20 nerf is entirely unreasonable.

I personally think the UAC20 should be around 5.5dps. And the UAC10 should be around 4.5dps. Thats more consistent with previous damage levels. And still gives the UACs a nice dps buff over standard ACs.

I think people might just have to get used to the damage being higher...oddly, between the fact that Clans have more damage but not really more armor, and that both lines of tech are going to be intermixed, I think that it might be ok to just leave it all as-is. (also, it might actually be that enough people bought clans that PGI wont have to worry about it too much...guess we'll see around this time next week when people have had more exposure time in the actual in game environment.)

Edited by Pygar, 12 June 2014 - 03:33 PM.

[Khobai]

definitely not okay to leave it as it lol. mechs like the atlas/banshee/stalker simply will not have a chance against the daishi.

[Pale Jackal]

Increase the reload rate and heat on the LRMs, increase the heat on the lasers, and... well, I haven't played the other weapon systems yet.

PGI told us the Clan weapons were going to be hotter to make up for their superior range. An extra 30% beam duration does not make up for twice the range and 50% more damage of their IS counterparts.

[King Kuranes]

Khobai, on 12 June 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

definitely not okay to leave it as it lol. mechs like the atlas/banshee/stalker simply will not have a chance against the daishi.

I don't think any Assault can stand against the Daishi. That said, lights and mediums make short work of the Daishi with experienced pilots. It really would be a team effort to take one down, like it is to take an Atlas

[Pygar]

Khobai, on 12 June 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

definitely not okay to leave it as it lol. mechs like the atlas/banshee/stalker simply will not have a chance against the daishi.

Really, unless they just nerf the crap out of everything, or even go so far as to say "screw it, clan mechs and IS mechs have all the same stuff, just different shapes"...it's just not possible to change that...

...and I saw it coming as far back as a month ago, because just too many things still had too many advantages despite the multiple soft nerfs.

We'll see how people really feel about it next week when it hits the regular public servers...but again, I think it will be fine- IS pilots are going to have Clan mechs on their team helping just as often as on the other side shooting at them, and all the usual techniques for keeping yourself alive for the whole match still apply, and good aiming along with focus fire kills Clan mechs pretty much just as fast as anything else. (and even if it isn't all "balanced", the current "meta" has gotten extremely stale, and could use a good stiff kick to the balls anyways.)

And don't forget, they have to be careful with how much they nerf Clan tech, because eventually "2C" technology will come along.

Edited by Pygar, 12 June 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Really, unless they just nerf the crap out of everything, or even go so far as to say "screw it, clan mechs and IS mechs have all the same stuff, just different shapes"...it's just not possible to change that...

Its definitely possible to change it and in fact theyre going to have to because its way overpowered. Theyve introduced a mech that can do twice the dps of a mech that was previously considered overpowered... so its not just overpowered its extremely overpowered.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Well, 2 battles in the Warhawk, 4 ER PPC and a gob of heatsinks.

506dmg in the first battle, died, but with 6 assists, a gob of component kills and a win.

2nd game, 698dmg, 3 kills, 7 assists, a win, I survived,

2nd game was on Terra therma, where one would think my heat would murder me.....I shut down plenty from losing my trigger discipline, but my heat cooldown on the thing is actually good.

Gotta say, this Warhawk is a beast. Ofc, im L2P a bit better as well. learning the peekaboom a bit better. Learning to not try to be a hero and to back up when im under fire. Playing it more like I used to in Planetside 2, smart...cover, fire...oh yeah.

Plus this Warhawk can take a beating. 526armor really allows it take a hit.

Gotta say, my initial speculations are being erased. Them C/ ERPPC are evil lol.

And im chain firing, not meta lolpha....doing much better now that ive got a mech I can take seriously.

lastly, Hi Koniving, saw you in the 2nd battle on Terra Therma. Lol. Fun seeing forumsiders in game.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 12 June 2014 - 05:55 PM.

[Pezzer]

My hopes are that they either nerf the heck out of all the weapons or they up the tonnage with a few tweaks here and there. either way, the current setup is far from competitive, we can all agree on that.

[Ningyo]

It has been suggested before, both by me and others.
This was back during 8v8, but could be modified for 12v12

Have Star of Clan (5 mechs) vs 2 Lances of Inner Sphere (8 mechs)

They could temporarily just have it be a 5 clan + 4 IS vs 12 IS or something too.

TT used similar methods to balance clan vs IS

[Pezzer]

Ningyo, on 12 June 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

It has been suggested before, both by me and others.
This was back during 8v8, but could be modified for 12v12

Have Star of Clan (5 mechs) vs 2 Lances of Inner Sphere (8 mechs)

They could temporarily just have it be a 5 clan + 4 IS vs 12 IS or something too.

TT used similar methods to balance clan vs IS

They already said that they weren't going to do this. Same thing with Zellbrigen.