25 replies to this topic

[Azeem447]

In Short I do not like the major nerf to clan Ballistics. Inersphere Auto Cannons are Way more dangers than Clan Auto Cannons for the simple reason of pin-point Damage. An AC10 will do 10 damage to one place while a clan UAC10 will do 3 damage to 5 different places. with this single nerf the clans are doomed before they even started their invasion. Steiner and Davion will easily repel any attack by just sending in Jaguars and Cataphracts. that is all you need to win against the clans now.

That being said I really LIKE the clan auto cannons. the way they function is Really COOL! But with out a major decrease in cool down time or better damage focus I don't see Clan auto cannons standing a chance against Inersphere.

[TibsVT]

Or you could just not fill the thing with ballistics.

[101011]

Azeem447, on 12 June 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

In Short I do not like the major nerf to clan Ballistics.  Inersphere Auto Cannons are Way more dangers than Clan Auto Cannons for the simple reason of pin-point Damage.  An AC10 will do 10 damage to one place while a clan UAC10 will do 3 damage to 5 different places.  with this single nerf the clans are doomed before they even started their invasion.  Steiner and Davion will easily repel any attack by just sending in Jaguars and Cataphracts.  that is all you need to win against the clans now.

That being said I really LIKE the clan auto cannons.  the way they function is Really COOL!  But with out a major decrease in cool down time or better damage focus I don't see Clan auto cannons standing a chance against Inersphere.

No. First, it does 2.5 damage to 4 places. Second, I love them, they are so much more fun to use.

[L e x]

They're definitely inferior if you just compare the duration and spread of damage but you also have to consider some other aspects of Clan ACs when compared to IS ACs:

- Less tonnage
- Less slots
- Less heat
- Better range

Edited by Lex420, 12 June 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[_Comrade_]

They better be good i have a stormcrow and i want some ballistics on it

[Azeem447]

And I Agree they are way more fun but you don't think 2 Clan UAC20's will be at a disadvantage to a jager mech with 2 AC20's? I ask this in sinsarity, Why? How so?

[TibsVT]

I suppose it's theoretically correct if you can't aim...

[IraqiWalker]

Azeem447, on 12 June 2014 - 03:46 PM, said:

In Short I do not like the major nerf to clan Ballistics. Inersphere Auto Cannons are Way more dangers than Clan Auto Cannons for the simple reason of pin-point Damage. An AC10 will do 10 damage to one place while a clan UAC10 will do 3 damage to 5 different places. with this single nerf the clans are doomed before they even started their invasion. Steiner and Davion will easily repel any attack by just sending in Jaguars and Cataphracts. that is all you need to win against the clans now.

That being said I really LIKE the clan auto cannons. the way they function is Really COOL! But with out a major decrease in cool down time or better damage focus I don't see Clan auto cannons standing a chance against Inersphere.

You know, I remember when people were crying about the Shadowhawk being Dead on Arrival. Remember that? Now it's one of the top most competitive mediums out there.

As for clan ballistics and IS ballistics being different, and possibly being a nerf to clans. I don't see it this way. First of all, Yeah, they're gonna be harder to use, makes sense, clan tech is regarded as requiring a higher skill cap to use properly. Second, Clans are a different culture, so their weapons should operate differently. Third, and most importantly, all of these modifications are going to be ported over to the IS side, when they are done testing and , and stabilizing them.

Azeem447, on 12 June 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

And I Agree they are way more fun but you don't think 2 Clan UAC20's will be at a disadvantage to a jager mech with 2 AC20's? I ask this in sinsarity, Why? How so?

A daishi with 2 UAC20s, unless they jam, will be able to pump out enough in one salvo to kill the Jager, while the Jager will badly damage one or two locations. I don't see the disadvantage. If you want, you can instead take a triple AC20 Daishi, and still kill the Jager with one alpha. In this case there will be no jamming.

Your comparison would have actually been better if you compared AC20s against each other. Clan tech will still have the advantages of less slots, tonnage, heat and longer range. However, it won't be single shot pinpoint damage. It's operating like lore ballistics do, and hopefully, PGI will be able to port these modifications to IS Ballistics soon.

I'm honestly excited about MG arrays, if they add those in, I will take nothing on my ullers but MG Arrays for ballistic slots.

[wanderer]

I was seeing plenty of Dire Wolves compensating for spread by simply putting more firepower down the line.

Quad UAC/10 or hexa UAC/5 still puts at least half the shells in the same spot on anything that isn't moving fast enough. That's 20 to one spot for a single 4x10 shot (that you can double-tap for another one immediately after) or 15 for a 6x5.

Double-tap 20 FLD or 15 FLD (roughly 30-40 minimum assuming a double-tap) is quite nice for an assault, especially considering a center of mass shot will likely put the other shells into a side torso for significant harm. The only hard part is that Dire Wolves, the dakka kings can't easily get to cover if they jam up.

The UAC/10 or /20 is a good piece of Clan ballistics for fewer hardpoints. And of course, the Gauss is the Clan poptart's best friend. AC's should have been burst fire to begin with.

[BA Animal]

It's going to be out of balance with the Battletech universe no matter what. In the original game, one paper and in the books, the clans devistated teh inner spear for months. The makers of the game isn't going to let that happen because either everyone will be playing clan or quit playing the game altogether. The first few defeats the clans had was at House Kurita and one of the mercinary units ( been a while since I read the book ) and even then the Kuritan's had mined a swamp with plasma mines, not out fought the clans. They just out thought them.

[IraqiWalker]

BA Animal, on 13 June 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

It's going to be out of balance with the Battletech universe no matter what. In the original game, one paper and in the books, the clans devistated teh inner spear for months. The makers of the game isn't going to let that happen because either everyone will be playing clan or quit playing the game altogether. The first few defeats the clans had was at House Kurita and one of the mercinary units ( been a while since I read the book ) and even then the Kuritan's had mined a swamp with plasma mines, not out fought the clans. They just out thought them.

Actually you're forgetting WHY they devastated the inner sphere. First their mechs were easier to repair (because of omni pod tech), second, because most of the houses either didn't acknowledge the existence of the clans in the beginning stages of the invasion, or still fought one another and took advantage of it. Once the IS get their ball rolling, and they had veteran pilots in the right spots, the clans were easier to stop. Then you had the IlKhan who really wanted to stop the invasion, agree to the trial of Tukayyid.

The best metaphor for it in my opinion is the German invasion of Russia in WWII. Yeah they had better equipment, yeah they devastated the russian lines. However, that happened because the defense was disorganized, and the Goliath of the Russian army hadn't gotten into full gear. However, once the red army got into action, the invasion was not only stopped, but Germany's might was fully destroyed, ending with Russia winning WWII for the allied side.

Another evidence is the annihilation of clan Smoke Jaguar, Operation Bulldog showed that the IS could match the clans toe to toe, if not in individual skill, then by overwhelming numbers.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

6 Cuac5 Daishi. I had 3-5 1k+ damage games within 2 hours. That is all.
EDIT: 6 cuac5s, 10 tons of ammo, 1.93 heat efficiency, 592 armor.

Edited by POOTYTANGASAUR, 13 June 2014 - 05:26 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 13 June 2014 - 05:25 AM, said:

6 Cuac5 Daishi. I had 3-5 1k+ damage games within 2 hours. That is all.

And people have been whining that they would be DOA for a while now. Can't wait to prove them wrong with my 3 AMS, ECM, 4SSRM6 Kit Fox.

[Lily from animove]

IraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

Actually you're forgetting WHY they devastated the inner sphere. First their mechs were easier to repair (because of omni pod tech), second, because most of the houses either didn't acknowledge the existence of the clans in the beginning stages of the invasion, or still fought one another and took advantage of it. Once the IS get their ball rolling, and they had veteran pilots in the right spots, the clans were easier to stop. Then you had the IlKhan who really wanted to stop the invasion, agree to the trial of Tukayyid.

The best metaphor for it in my opinion is the German invasion of Russia in WWII. Yeah they had better equipment, yeah they devastated the russian lines. However, that happened because the defense was disorganized, and the Goliath of the Russian army hadn't gotten into full gear. However, once the red army got into action, the invasion was not only stopped, but Germany's might was fully destroyed, ending with Russia winning WWII for the allied side.

Another evidence is the annihilation of clan Smoke Jaguar, Operation Bulldog showed that the IS could match the clans toe to toe, if not in individual skill, then by overwhelming numbers.

Well I guess this is the analogy of the clanwars, germany was better in technology, and they also had their "masterrace" theory. That goes kinda very close to history. And once the other formed an Alliance they were able to handle them.

[IraqiWalker]

Lily from animove, on 13 June 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Well I guess this is the analogy of the clanwars, germany was better in technology, and they also had their "masterrace" theory. That goes kinda very close to history. And once the other formed an Alliance they were able to handle them.

It kind of dawned on me as I was writing that post, and so I froze for a few minutes going "Oh god, this is too real of an analogy". Yeah, the clans, also like Germany, didn't have the numbers or the logistics to actually take over the entire Inner Sphere. Their only hope was to go straight for Terra (Moscow), to force a full surrender. If they could take Terra, they can sit at the table with the houses, and force them to surrender and acknowledge the superiority of the clans, and the righteousness of their cause.

[Kenyon Burguess]

IraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

Actually you're forgetting WHY they devastated the inner sphere. First their mechs were easier to repair (because of omni pod tech), second, because most of the houses either didn't acknowledge the existence of the clans in the beginning stages of the invasion, or still fought one another and took advantage of it. Once the IS get their ball rolling, and they had veteran pilots in the right spots, the clans were easier to stop. Then you had the IlKhan who really wanted to stop the invasion, agree to the trial of Tukayyid.

The best metaphor for it in my opinion is the German invasion of Russia in WWII. Yeah they had better equipment, yeah they devastated the russian lines. However, that happened because the defense was disorganized, and the Goliath of the Russian army hadn't gotten into full gear. However, once the red army got into action, the invasion was not only stopped, but Germany's might was fully destroyed, ending with Russia winning WWII for the allied side.

Another evidence is the annihilation of clan Smoke Jaguar, Operation Bulldog showed that the IS could match the clans toe to toe, if not in individual skill, then by overwhelming numbers.

while at an advantage in skill and in their technology, the real reason the clans dominated was because comstar sold out the inner sphere and gave the clans the locations of all the worlds they needed to attack to win. it wasn't until later in the war that comstar realized the horrific error in judgment and that they clans were going to take terra that they decided to assist the inner sphere and challenged the clans to the battle of Tukayyid.

[IraqiWalker]

Geist Null, on 13 June 2014 - 05:32 AM, said:

while at an advantage in skill and in their technology, the real reason the clans dominated was because comstar sold out the inner sphere and gave the clans the locations of all the worlds they needed to attack to win. it wasn't until later in the war that comstar realized the horrific error in judgment and that they clans were going to take terra that they decided to assist the inner sphere and challenged the clans to the battle of Tukayyid.

Pretty much. Although the Precentor (or whatever the big kahuna's title for comstar was) at the time was chill with the conditions of Tukayyid since it would end the war one way or another, while allowing the comguard to still have an effective force.

[Magna Canus]

IraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

It kind of dawned on me as I was writing that post, and so I froze for a few minutes going "Oh god, this is too real of an analogy". Yeah, the clans, also like Germany, didn't have the numbers or the logistics to actually take over the entire Inner Sphere. Their only hope was to go straight for Terra (Moscow), to force a full surrender. If they could take Terra, they can sit at the table with the houses, and force them to surrender and acknowledge the superiority of the clans, and the righteousness of their cause.

So does this mean that Clanners are really just space {Godwin's Law}'s?

[IraqiWalker]

Magnakanus, on 13 June 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

So does this mean that Clanners are really just space {Godwin's Law}'s?

Actually, no, but pretty darn close. They didn't want to do the whole "kill everything that isn't us" thing. Remember, all of the genetic engineering, and caste based social structure was viewed as a sacrifice they had to make, in order to become as strong as possible to bear the burden of humanity's future. Their hope was to come back, and reclaim the Inner Sphere from the quarreling houses, and bring peace and order back, by reforming the old Star League, and the race to Terra would have helped decide once and for all which clan would be in charge, and head the SLDF.

[Magna Canus]

IraqiWalker, on 13 June 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

Actually, no, but pretty darn close. They didn't want to do the whole "kill everything that isn't us" thing. Remember, all of the genetic engineering, and caste based social structure was viewed as a sacrifice they had to make, in order to become as strong as possible to bear the burden of humanity's future. Their hope was to come back, and reclaim the Inner Sphere from the quarreling houses, and bring peace and order back, by reforming the old Star League, and the race to Terra would have helped decide once and for all which clan would be in charge, and head the SLDF.

Mmm, so kind of like Khan and his guys with a Caste system involved where the warrior cast is dominant. =)