27 replies to this topic

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Every single time I drop on river city or river city night skirmish the same thing happens every single game : both teams start booking it fast as they can around the map. Now if every mech has decent speed and everyone is in on the strategy it can work but...

This strategy will not work every single game and you will lose some games because of it. Heres why : Some assault mechs will not be able to keep up no matter how hard they try. Eventually the enemy team catches up to the ones lagging behind, and you get picked off without even firing a laser beam from behind. Also, not everyone wants to do the same boring lame ass strategy every single game. This is rage quit inducing gameplay and very unfriendly to new players. How about using a different tactic? How about instead of ring around the rosie every single game you take up the high ground and set up a defensive position in between buildings? How about instead of leaving your slow assaults behind you follow them and support them like a real team would? How about trying out different tactics once in a while like a real team would?

[Reitrix]

River City has the problem of being 2 side of intense cover with a huuuuuuuuuuge cover free zone in the middle. Meaning if you want to get to the other side with minimum damage ... you go round the sides.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Reitrix, on 14 June 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

River City has the problem of being 2 side of intense cover with a huuuuuuuuuuge cover free zone in the middle. Meaning if you want to get to the other side with minimum damage ... you go round the sides.

Wow thanks... I didnt know that *facepalm*

[Wintersdark]

Funny, I saw this play out in one of my early Clan Test matches. Three of us in Dire Wolves spawned in the far side (by where Kappa is on Conquest). Team immediately starts circling the caldera counterclockwise as usual, as does the opposing team.

At 48kph, we very quickly found ourselves in a lovely situation: We where alone vs the bulk of the enemy team. Due to the Direwolf's very limited torso twist, we could choose to either continue to follow our allies (and get shot in the back) or engage the enemy team, but be unable to move in the direction of our allies.

We turned and fought, and being caught in the open where quickly overwhelmed.

There was nothing else we could do. Our teammates cried that we should have caught up with them, but at 48kph, you don't keep up with anyone else. In such cases, our team threw away 300 tons of mechs in their haste to circle the caldera as quickly as possible, for reasons that totally escape me.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

Funny, I saw this play out in one of my early Clan Test matches. Three of us in Dire Wolves spawned in the far side (by where Kappa is on Conquest). Team immediately starts circling the caldera counterclockwise as usual, as does the opposing team.

At 48kph, we very quickly found ourselves in a lovely situation: We where alone vs the bulk of the enemy team. Due to the Direwolf's very limited torso twist, we could choose to either continue to follow our allies (and get shot in the back) or engage the enemy team, but be unable to move in the direction of our allies.

We turned and fought, and being caught in the open where quickly overwhelmed.

There was nothing else we could do. Our teammates cried that we should have caught up with them, but at 48kph, you don't keep up with anyone else. In such cases, our team threw away 300 tons of mechs in their haste to circle the caldera as quickly as possible, for reasons that totally escape me.

This is exactly the situation I want to avoid. No real mechwarrior would leave another mechwarrior to die... ever. In this case the team should have stayed and supported you and you guys should have found some cover nearby.

[Reitrix]

Alwrath, on 14 June 2014 - 07:26 AM, said:

This is exactly the situation I want to avoid. No real mechwarrior would leave another mechwarrior to die... ever. In this case the team should have stayed and supported you and you guys should have found some cover nearby.

Unfortunately, PuGLand is all about "mememe", selfeish players think only of getting to grips with the enemy as soon as possible, then blaming the lack of support on their team being bad.

When you find a PuG team where everyone doesn't just hit max throttle and run as far from the team as possible as soon as the timer starts, let me know.
While looking for said team, mind locating some Assault Pilots who don't reverse directly into his teammates at the slightest hint of taking fire?

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Reitrix, on 14 June 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

mind locating some Assault Pilots who don't reverse directly into his teammates at the slightest hint of taking fire?

Well that depends on the situation. You want to be near your team mates but not too close. If your right behind an assault mech then your just a tad too close. People need to learn to spread out a little.

Edited by Alwrath, 14 June 2014 - 08:03 AM.

[Maxx Blue]

If you take a reasonably fast medium or heavy and book it counter-clockwise right from the start and type out a quick msg to group up at whatever gird square, I've found folks will do it about half the time. So, if you don't want to do a circle race, just head the other way and type out one line of text. It won't work all the time, but it should give you what you want about half the time, which is probably better than what you get from the average PUG.

I've found that many groups are willing to follow a basic starting direction without much fuss. Sure, you will get some drops where no one listens or actively says 'no', but that doesn't mean you should stop trying. It only takes a couple seconds, and the worst that happens is no one listens and you circle around like usual. I've never had anyone TK me or anything silly like that for calling out a quick order at the beginning of the match, so really there is no reason not to try if you don't want to follow the typical rotation.

[Abisha]

if both teams do then the slow mechs are first to die, basically balance the game out again.
dont blame the team for your slow ass mate.

[Reitrix]

Alwrath, on 14 June 2014 - 08:02 AM, said:

Well that depends on the situation. You want to be near your team mates but not too close. If your right behind an assault mech then your just a tad too close. People need to learn to spread out a little.

Normally, I'd agree. And in most situations, you don't want to be too close to bigger 'Mechs. But when your full compliment pof Assault 'Mechs stop dead in a narrow passage, then REVERSE because a Medium on the other side tossed a Medium laser at them ...

Assaults need to be charging into the enemy, you take a lot of damage in that initial cresting, then when your team spreads out from behind that Assault, the enemy either breaks for cover and runs, or they zero in on the biggest perceived threat.

One of the best matches i was part of recently, is on Terra Therma, 3 Atlas in a lance, our Lights found their Grid location, our Atlai waded straight in, faster Mediums accelerated out and into brawl range, and my own Brawlerphract tore holes in enemy 'Mechs. Those 3 Atlas survived right till the end, torn to bits, but alive. We need more Assault pilots who play like that.

[Wintersdark]

Abisha, on 14 June 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

if both teams do then the slow mechs are first to die, basically balance the game out again.
dont blame the team for your slow ass mate.

Except this is just ridiculous, and presupposes both teams have the same number of slow mechs, who spawn in the same places.

The teams rotate the way they do on these maps in skirmish because two lances drop close together, and one off to the side. They rotate that way because the two lances can crush the one if they move fast.

If one team's Charlie lance (the distant one) is fast, and the other is slow, the slow lance gets crushed and the game is suddenly 12v8. This results in a landslide win for the faster team, then the resultant cries that the matchmaker is broken and elo and crap like that. That's not the case at all, though, the matchmaker had nothing to do with that (mech speed is not a matchmaker parameter). That's the team's fault.

If you choose to leave teammates behind, and they get crushed as a result, you can blame them all you like for having the audacity to take a slow mech (note that unlike some idiot taking a Stalker with a 150STD engine, Clan mech pilots don't have the choice to change their engines), but you lose that match because you elected to leave them behind. Once in the match, they couldn't do anything differently to have won, but you could have.

[Ulketulke]

Alwrath, on 14 June 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

This strategy will not work every single game and you will lose some games because of it.

Just like any other strategy.

[Abisha]

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2014 - 08:36 AM, said:

Except this is just ridiculous, and presupposes both teams have the same number of slow mechs, who spawn in the same places.

The teams rotate the way they do on these maps in skirmish because two lances drop close together, and one off to the side. They rotate that way because the two lances can crush the one if they move fast.

If one team's Charlie lance (the distant one) is fast, and the other is slow, the slow lance gets crushed and the game is suddenly 12v8. This results in a landslide win for the faster team, then the resultant cries that the matchmaker is broken and elo and crap like that. That's not the case at all, though, the matchmaker had nothing to do with that (mech speed is not a matchmaker parameter). That's the team's fault.

If you choose to leave teammates behind, and they get crushed as a result, you can blame them all you like for having the audacity to take a slow mech (note that unlike some idiot taking a Stalker with a 150STD engine, Clan mech pilots don't have the choice to change their engines), but you lose that match because you elected to leave them behind. Once in the match, they couldn't do anything differently to have won, but you could have.

some mechs only have lasers installed on their mechs, and spawn at Terra Therma
in mech warriors it's not all about teamwork, but the ability to adapt.

[Diablobo]

Just take off to the left in your Daishi and keep the enemy occupied while your fast movers circle around and hit THEM from behind.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

This is why I always suggest that people not rush ahead and not fall behind, and if anyone makes contact (especially the trailing mechs) they need to tell us so we can turn and concentrate against them. Nobody ever seems to do it, though. Comms OP so not fair to use team chat...

[Lily from animove]

strange in ym games everyone sees to camp at the citadell, either the defenders behind it (north of the citadell) or the attackers in front of it in the river.

[Wintersdark]

Abisha, on 14 June 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

some mechs only have lasers installed on their mechs, and spawn at Terra Therma
in mech warriors it's not all about teamwork, but the ability to adapt.

Wat? Got TT and only lasers? Fire control, as you do anyways.

Drop in a 48kph Dire Wolf (note that you don't choose the speed, it's not like you just built your mech that way) at the distant spawn point, and get left behind by your team immediately who, in all fairness, where never even close to you? How do you "adapt" to that? Unless you play in ridiculously low Elo, you're going to be outnumbered 8 to 1 pretty much immediately. All you do then is die. If your allies elect to tear off away from you, as opposed to joining up or simply waiting, there's no good outcome for you unless your enemies elect to be warm and cuddly and not rush to gank your lone lance.

You see this problem on Alpine a lot too, even before the Direwolf. The team that starts in the east has two lances spawn northeast (by the upper base) and one in the far southeast. If the team's assaults start down south, they're often doomed simply by being unable to join up with their allies... and like wise, their allies are doomed by being down several huge mechs.

Even so, people so rarely make any effort to work with their teammates.


In Mechwarrior Online, it's all about the teamwork. Mechwarrior skill is important, but vastly less important than teamwork. Poor players in a well organized team with beat the crap out of better lone wolves running amok Rambo style every time.

There's a reason people get all bent out of shape about premades (note: I love 'em personally, but to each their own). It's not because players are better in a team, or more adaptable, but because they work together.

[xMintaka]

Reitrix, on 14 June 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Unfortunately, PuGLand is all about "mememe", selfeish players think only of getting to grips with the enemy as soon as possible, then blaming the lack of support on their team being bad.

When you find a PuG team where everyone doesn't just hit max throttle and run as far from the team as possible as soon as the timer starts, let me know.
While looking for said team, mind locating some Assault Pilots who don't reverse directly into his teammates at the slightest hint of taking fire?

There's one in every drop. Runs straight at the enemy and dies, then blames the team for not supporting them. Or the assault hiding at the back of the field while their team crumbles, then blaming the team for being "no skill noobs". Okay Mr.100% health assault mech, over 5 minutes into the game...

But boy, those drops where your team moves only as fast as your slowest mech and keeps the momentum going... Absolutely glorious. Sadly I can count the times I've seen this happen on my thumb and index finger.


It's not only River City. The "rotate counter clockwise" approach occurs in almost any game of Skirmish (barring Hell, Alpine and Hoth for other reasons). It's mostly down to the need to remain mobile (if you want to win) and most mechs mounting their heaviest weapons on the right arm/torso.

Chasing the other team in a circle certainly beats sitting at base and trading shots at max or near max range, relegating your lights and brawlers to a long game of thumb twiddling.

[Abisha]

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

Wat? Got TT and only lasers? Fire control, as you do anyways.

Drop in a 48kph Dire Wolf (note that you don't choose the speed, it's not like you just built your mech that way) at the distant spawn point, and get left behind by your team immediately who, in all fairness, where never even close to you? How do you "adapt" to that? Unless you play in ridiculously low Elo, you're going to be outnumbered 8 to 1 pretty much immediately. All you do then is die. If your allies elect to tear off away from you, as opposed to joining up or simply waiting, there's no good outcome for you unless your enemies elect to be warm and cuddly and not rush to gank your lone lance.

You see this problem on Alpine a lot too, even before the Direwolf. The team that starts in the east has two lances spawn northeast (by the upper base) and one in the far southeast. If the team's assaults start down south, they're often doomed simply by being unable to join up with their allies... and like wise, their allies are doomed by being down several huge mechs.

Even so, people so rarely make any effort to work with their teammates.


In Mechwarrior Online, it's all about the teamwork. Mechwarrior skill is important, but vastly less important than teamwork. Poor players in a well organized team with beat the crap out of better lone wolves running amok Rambo style every time.

There's a reason people get all bent out of shape about premades (note: I love 'em personally, but to each their own). It's not because players are better in a team, or more adaptable, but because they work together.

and yes, i know this was about the direwolf speed, but don't think this game is all made around your own little big mech.
that's why PUG is the best type of mode this game have to offer, that tiny little bit of help can matter already.
atlas are slow also i never hear them complain.

[falknir]

The whole assault is a damage sponge mentality should have been stomped out of existence long ago. Assaults are not sacrificial decoys for their allies to go temporarily unabated in combat, they are simply larger and usually less-mobile weapons platforms. They are important to loosely group around.

The moment members of your team feels entitled to action over the possibility of twiddling their thumbs while working with their team. Well, prepare yourself for those entitled players to follow the selfish-lemming train of running circles around the map while ignoring all comms that contradict their set-in-stone behavior. Pissing off all the teammates that are getting slowly left behind as they fight hopeless battles in stages so a handful of entitled players get their fix at another's expense.

It is going to be a painful experience for Clan mech pilots attempting to pug in some assault and heavies. Truly painful.

Edited by falknir, 14 June 2014 - 11:32 AM.