59 replies to this topic

[Carrioncrows]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 June 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

been running 5mg, 1 LBX and 2 Mlasers on mine for a while now. Very useful

A little off topic but I can't seem to find where it handles the particulars of criting in the command post.

Now MG's and LBX have the potential to extra damage over all? or just extra damage when hitting an open structure.

In the Smurfy mechlab they have Mguns and LBX listed as 14% chance to do 2 extra dmg, 8% chance to do 4 dmg and 3% chance to do 6 extra damage.

My thought process was with the Targeting computer (largely useless IMHO) might be worth it with that 75% bonus to critical chance when using weapons like MG's and LBX.

89% chance to do 2 additional damage
83% chance to do 4 additional damage
78% chance to do 6 additional damage

You start rolling like Quad LB2X or LBX5's that might stack up a wee bit more extra damage on a direwolf.

But if it only works on opened structures then yeah it's useless.

[Mcgral18]

Graugger, on 14 June 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

MGs were ballistic weapons so yeah, they kind of did need a nerf just like the ACs still do.

Felio, on 14 June 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

The IS MG fires randomly in a cone.

MGs are actually ammo dependant lasers, with a Cone of Fire added into the mix.

Hitscan and heatless.

[FupDup]

Carrioncrows, on 14 June 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

My thought process was with the Targeting computer (largely useless IMHO) might be worth it with that 75% bonus to critical chance when using weapons like MG's and LBX.

In-game the tooltip says that MGs won't be affected by the TC, and the Command Chair already says that LBX won't be affected.

[Bishop Steiner]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 14 June 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

Saw that build tonight, liked it. Rare that you see asymmetric loads at all these days.

Almost felt bad when I ruined him in my WVR ha. SRM2/4/6, MPL, LB10X. All the sub-optimal weapons in one handy 55-ton package. Don't know why/how it works so well. Looking forward to live implementation of the Buckton fix!

I run LBX, MPL and 3x SSRM2 on my Wolverine. I HATE the thing.

And I swear I can't seem to score under 500 damage with it.

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 14 June 2014 - 05:21 PM, said:

MGs are actually ammo dependant lasers, with a Cone of Fire added into the mix.

Hitscan and heatless.

MGs are most definitely not hitscan.

[Mcgral18]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 June 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

MGs are most definitely not hitscan.

They most certainly are.

Go in the testing grounds with an MG, a laser and an AC10.

Go to 200M in from of the Commando, and shoot the AC10...and tell me what happens with the crosshair? Nothing happens until the shell hits the Commando. When it impacts, it turns red.

Now, try that with the laser. It turns red the moment you pull the trigger.

And finally with the machine gun. The moment you pull the trigger, it turns red, even before the bullets reach it.

Hitscan.

They deal damage the same way as lasers, with the addition of a CoF. They also had 2x range with the lasers, while the ballistics used to still have 3x range.

Edited by Mcgral18, 14 June 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[KAT Ayanami]

MGs are only used on cored players. So damage is not as important as it tends to crit anyways.

[Graugger]

No reason for the MG to have longer range than the small laser.

[Maxx Blue]

Having just recently bought an arrow...I am not super pleased by this. Now it is going to be even more difficult to get through armor than it already is with MG's. Even with six of the things, I can park myself behind an assault for a long time before they actually manage to cut through the 10 or 20 points of armor back there. If anything, they should have kept the raw damage and tweaked the crit chance.

[Y E O N N E]

I have found The Large Pulse and ER Large builds to be sub-optimal and not playing to the Arrow's strengths.Try the LB-10X build. It chews up every class of mech and spits them back out in pieces. The LB-10X combined with the 9 damage of three fast-cycling small lasers and the constant stream of damage from 5 MGs gets you through armour in no time at all. I have far more consistent results with it than I do with the twin LB-10X build on the JM6-DD.

If the fix was enabled on the PTS, I didn't notice it in my Arrow.

[Deathlike]

MGs are hitscan.

Source:
http://mwomercs.com/...97-05-mar-2013/

Quote

- Host state rewinding is now implemented for instant fire weapons (i.e. lasers, machine guns, flamers); meaning you should now be able to hit moving targets with these weapons even when experiencing latency up to ~450 ms.

[Y E O N N E]

Interesting. It doesn't register hits in-game on fast, laterally moving targets unless I account for deflection.

[Sephlock]

kazlaton, on 14 June 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

So I just noticed that machine guns listed on smufy's are down to a .08 damage and .8 dps instead of the .1 damage and 1 dps they used to have. I didn't see anything about it in the forums, and I know they were still at 1 dps when the Arrow came out. So did PGI just release a mech specifically geared towards 6 mgs and then nerf the mg?

Or has the unthinkable happened, and smurfy's is wrong about something?

This can't possibly be the case.

They said that there was a bug lowering damage by some amount (10% IIRC), so they fixed it and introduced a nerf by that exact amount. Naturally, that must mean that you will have noticed no change whatsoever!

Just like the last time this happened.

[Spheroid]

Something indeed is very wrong with machine guns. I can barely get any component destruction points now days. I was derping around in my locust in an attempt to probe the actual nature of the Timberwolf hitbox but it seems like the damage just gets sucked into a black hole.

Aren't the side torsos on most Clan builds stuffed with equipment? That and a lesser chance of an engine crit means I should see a very rapid series of parts gutting after sustained fire.

I get much better component destruction from LRMs. I believe something is bugged in the code currently.

[DEMAX51]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 June 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

Interesting. It doesn't register hits in-game on fast, laterally moving targets unless I account for deflection.

Probably more of an HSR issue than anything else. You shouldn't have to lead with MGs, just as you shouldn't have to lead with lasers. They're both hitscan weapons, and, ideally, hit exactly where you're aiming (apart from the MGs cone of fire, of course).

[Gallowglas]

I recently had a game where a cherry red internally damaged Jager took about 30 seconds of 4xmg fire to his open CT and side torsos and didn't have any adverse effects. I've definitely noticed a negative impact to them. I just don't know if it's the weapon or hit reg again.

Edited by Gallowglas, 22 July 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 June 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

MGs are most definitely not hitscan.

Yes they are.

Spheroid, on 22 July 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Something indeed is very wrong with machine guns. I can barely get any component destruction points now days. I was derping around in my locust in an attempt to probe the actual nature of the Timberwolf hitbox but it seems like the damage just gets sucked into a black hole.

Aren't the side torsos on most Clan builds stuffed with equipment? That and a lesser chance of an engine crit means I should see a very rapid series of parts gutting after sustained fire.

I get much better component destruction from LRMs. I believe something is bugged in the code currently.

You need a minimum threshold of 4 to notice any effect the weapon has. Bring 4+ or none at all.

Edited by mwhighlander, 22 July 2014 - 10:30 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

I don't know about crits, but I do know that when I'm in an assault mech, I really hate being circled by light mech pilots boating MGs. Their DPS is not to be underestimated, and most people who actually use MGs, know how to use them. The bad players experiment a bit with MGs and then unequip them, I think.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Alistair Winter, on 22 July 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

I don't know about crits, but I do know that when I'm in an assault mech, I really hate being circled by light mech pilots boating MGs. Their DPS is not to be underestimated, and most people who actually use MGs, know how to use them. The bad players experiment a bit with MGs and then unequip them, I think.

1)Expose mech's internals

2)Lay in with an ember (or any other light with 4+) with Mguns

3)???

4)Profit

[stjobe]

Spheroid, on 22 July 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Something indeed is very wrong with machine guns. I can barely get any component destruction points now days. I was derping around in my locust in an attempt to probe the actual nature of the Timberwolf hitbox but it seems like the damage just gets sucked into a black hole.

Aren't the side torsos on most Clan builds stuffed with equipment? That and a lesser chance of an engine crit means I should see a very rapid series of parts gutting after sustained fire.

I get much better component destruction from LRMs. I believe something is bugged in the code currently.

What's changed is that all types of internal components can be critted since the Clan patch (which also saw the MG nerf to 0.8 DPS); they're still have no adverse effect if you destroy them, but they soak up a lot of crits and crit damage...

Omid Kiarostami, on 18 June 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

Hey Li Song,

I can confirm that internals (actuators, gyros, sensors, etc) are supposed to be accounted for in the critical hit distributions. They are great crit-buffers!

Prior to clans, the default health value of internals was a constant in the code base. When we moved internals to the xml game data, we didn't need that anymore and started specifying hit points on them like every other item. This doesn't represent a change in functionality, though - everything should still be the same as it was before.

In lieu of a formal post going over crits, here's an image of a CN9-YLW with the debug crit table showing: http://imgur.com/G6EmMky

The percentage next to each item in the image above is the likelihood the game uses when determining what item is hit by a crit. Internals factor into the crit distribution (at least until they are destroyed), so having internals in a component definitely improves the survivability of items you slot there.

Hope that clarifies!

This, of course, is a major change - the statement that "everything should still be the same as it was before" in the above quote is laughably and utterly wrong; PGI's stupid idea of having "crit weapons" means those weapons just took a major nerf.

Edited by stjobe, 22 July 2014 - 11:11 AM.