59 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

So we can now get crits to Actuators? Thats cool, does it affect aiming? Or do we have no concrete info for this?

[Mcgral18]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

So we can now get crits to Actuators? Thats cool, does it affect aiming? Or do we have no concrete info for this?

Same as engine crits.

They happen, but no effects.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mcgral18, on 22 July 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Same as engine crits.

They happen, but no effects.

LOL so they don't happen. If there isn't an affect there isn't a crit.

[DEMAX51]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

LOL so they don't happen. If there isn't an affect there isn't a crit.

Well, not necessarily - you still get the bonus 15% damage that's dealt directly to internal structure as a result of any crit.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

LOL so they don't happen. If there isn't an affect there isn't a crit.

As the others have said, they do two things:
* Transfer 15% of crit damage to IS.
* Soak up a crit that would otherwise hit something important.

But yeah, it's kind of ridiculous that they put that in - without mentioning it in any patch notes, mind you - and not put in mechanics to having them destroyed actually do something.

If they did affect aiming, movement, and so on it would have been a great addition; as it is, it's just another nerf to a weapon system that really, really, didn't need another nerf (the "crit weapons" and mainly the MG).

Did you know?
The MG is since a while back the "crit weapon" with the lowest additional crit chance?
MG: 10% extra crit chance
LBX: 25% extra crit chance
Flamer: 25% extra crit chance

Edited by stjobe, 22 July 2014 - 11:43 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 22 July 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

As the others have said, they do two things:
* Transfer 15% of crit damage to IS.
* Soak up a crit that would otherwise hit something important.

But yeah, it's kind of ridiculous that they put that in - without mentioning it in any patch notes, mind you - and not put in mechanics to having them destroyed actually do something.

If they did affect aiming, movement, and so on it would have been a great addition; as it is, it's just another nerf to a weapon system that really, really, didn't need another nerf (the "crit weapons" and mainly the MG).

Did you know?
The MG is since a while back the "crit weapon" with the lowest additional crit chance?
MG: 10% extra crit chance
LBX: 25% extra crit chance
Flamer: 25% extra crit chance

Why in the world does the Flamer have a better crit chance than a MG? That is a weird DEV team we have!

[Thorqemada]

Graugger, on 14 June 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

MGs were ballistic weapons so yeah, they kind of did need a nerf just like the ACs still do.

Allways keep in mind that MGs work in this game like Lasers as Hitscan Wepaons - the Bulletspray is a Visual that does mean nothing!

Edited by Thorqemada, 24 July 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Thorqemada, on 22 July 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Allways Keep in mind that MGs work in this game like Lasers as Hitscan Wepaons - the Bulletspray is a Visual that does mean nothing!

They actually do have a cone of fire despite working as a laser.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Adiuvo, on 22 July 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

They actually do have a cone of fire despite working as a laser.

Yep, Hitscan cof.

Ignore the animation

[Mizore]

So MGs are quite useless again? ... PAAAAUUUUUUL!!!!!!!!!

[Clit Beastwood]

FupDup, on 14 June 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

They should have left MGs as-is after fixing the bug.

Remember when MG's were uber OP for a while? Spider 5k and 6mg jager were absolute beasts

[stjobe]

Fierostetz, on 22 July 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Remember when MG's were uber OP for a while? Spider 5k and 6mg jager were absolute beasts

The 6 MG Jager was a beast, but never forget it was a heavy (with the armor to keep facing the enemy for some time), and it had dual PPCs or dual LLs to do the breaching for the MGs. The Spider 5K didn't have that, and also had two less MGs; I wouldn't go so far as to call the 5K Spiders "beasts".

And of course, any light that couldn't mount 3+ MGs could just forget about mounting ballistics.

Lights needed - and they still need - a ballistic option. In BattleTech this is the MG (same damage as the AC/2). In MWO though, PGI wants to keep them "useless against armor" (yes, that's an actual dev quote), so they made them "crit weapons" instead - something that has no grounding in the BattleTech lore and that is rather useless in MWO, especially in the case of the MG. They do so little per-projectile damage you have to jack up the crit multiplier to silly levels to make them able to destroy anything at all, and then they get too powerful when boated.

"Crit weapons" is another in a long line of Paul ideas that really should not be in the game.

[Clit Beastwood]

stjobe, on 22 July 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

The 6 MG Jager was a beast, but never forget it was a heavy (with the armor to keep facing the enemy for some time), and it had dual PPCs or dual LLs to do the breaching for the MGs. The Spider 5K didn't have that, and also had two less MGs; I wouldn't go so far as to call the 5K Spiders "beasts".

And of course, any light that couldn't mount 3+ MGs could just forget about mounting ballistics.

Lights needed - and they still need - a ballistic option. In BattleTech this is the MG (same damage as the AC/2). In MWO though, PGI wants to keep them "useless against armor" (yes, that's an actual dev quote), so they made them "crit weapons" instead - something that has no grounding in the BattleTech lore and that is rather useless in MWO, especially in the case of the MG. They do so little per-projectile damage you have to jack up the crit multiplier to silly levels to make them able to destroy anything at all, and then they get too powerful when boated.

"Crit weapons" is another in a long line of Paul ideas that really should not be in the game.

I ran a slightly slower spider 5k with a LPL in the chest and 1jj, had a bunch of 700-800 damage games back then (before air/arty!) just eating assaults right up. Big and slow was the way to go
The spider 5k, then, took maybe 3 seconds to get thru the rear armor of most atlases (atlai? did we ever get that sorted?) then it was easy pickin's. The jager DD with 2 erppc's (pre ghost heat ones!) and 6mg's was pretty awesome - I'd line up long shots and get 2-3 dual erppc hits in before attempting to close range. I used it like a farmer uses seeds... I'd "plant" open cores with the PPC's, then "harvest" the kills with MG's


I also remember the nonstop posts about OP lights lol.... then the 5k champion mech came out haha. The forum rage was strong with that one.

Edited by Fierostetz, 22 July 2014 - 03:11 PM.

[ollo]

stjobe, on 22 July 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

The 6 MG Jager was a beast, but never forget it was a heavy (with the armor to keep facing the enemy for some time), and it had dual PPCs or dual LLs to do the breaching for the MGs. The Spider 5K didn't have that, and also had two less MGs; I wouldn't go so far as to call the 5K Spiders "beasts".

and never forget that spiders STILL have (after 1.5 years or so?) the mobility of a light and the armor of an assault mech (from my experience, they're really broken and a PITA as hell).

"Spider - NEVER FORGET" - new marketing slogan? (after it's finally fixed in, like, 2016)

Edited by ollo, 22 July 2014 - 03:20 PM.

[Gallowglas]

Fierostetz, on 22 July 2014 - 01:45 PM, said:

Remember when MG's were uber OP for a while? Spider 5k and 6mg jager were absolute beasts

Hah, yeah. I also remember arguing with more than a few folks during that time who despite plenty of screenshots were determined to call them garbage. I always strongly suspected those people wanted to preserve their OP gameplay.

[Y E O N N E]

stjobe, on 22 July 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

The 6 MG Jager was a beast, but never forget it was a heavy (with the armor to keep facing the enemy for some time), and it had dual PPCs or dual LLs to do the breaching for the MGs. The Spider 5K didn't have that, and also had two less MGs; I wouldn't go so far as to call the 5K Spiders "beasts".

The Arrow has kind of replaced the "Dapper Jager" as the MG beast. It is faster, has jump jets, and it can still dish 11 DPS for extended periods of time with the right equipment. The MGs alone contribute 4.8 DPS, and that's a lot. Assuming all rounds hit in 3 tons of MG ammo hit, that's still 480 damage. It's not a competitive loadout, obviously, but has proven quite effective for me in public matches so far by regularly posting 500 to 600 damage games with 3 or 4 kills, followed by the oddball 700+ match every now and again.

[Clit Beastwood]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 July 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

The Arrow has kind of replaced the "Dapper Jager" as the MG beast. It is faster, has jump jets, and it can still dish 11 DPS for extended periods of time with the right equipment. The MGs alone contribute 4.8 DPS, and that's a lot. Assuming all rounds hit in 3 tons of MG ammo hit, that's still 480 damage. It's not a competitive loadout, obviously, but has proven quite effective for me in public matches so far by regularly posting 500 to 600 damage games with 3 or 4 kills, followed by the oddball 700+ match every now and again.

The mg's used to be bugged so you'd eat anything. The time to kill with the 6mg jäger used to be ridiculously short (even against armor) - that was fixed long before the arrow came out. If mg's were still like that the arrow would be amazing. The most recent mg fix isn't what I'm talking about, I'm thinking... Maybe a year ago-ish?

Edited by Fierostetz, 22 July 2014 - 05:35 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I wasn't here for that, I guess. I've only been playing since...March, I think?

Still, I find it to be rather good at what it does. As long as you are not running out into the open or trying to partake in the sniping game (read: not playing the 'Mech to its strengths), it wrecks face. It is devastating in an all-out brawl since almost nobody focuses on the harmless little Blackjack and armor goes quick in a melee.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 July 2014 - 05:38 PM, said:

I wasn't here for that, I guess. I've only been playing since...March, I think?

Still, I find it to be rather good at what it does. As long as you are not running out into the open or trying to partake in the sniping game (read: not playing the 'Mech to its strengths), it wrecks face. It is devastating in an all-out brawl since almost nobody focuses on the harmless little Blackjack and armor goes quick in a melee.

Good build, saw you doing a nice job running harasser in canyon network a couple nights back. Still, pre June 17, they were still useless against armor, but WAY better against components. Still n all, my 5MG, 1 LB-X and 2 Mlaser Arrow is pretty fun. Just not quite AS fun as before.

[Y E O N N E]

Ah, the LBX Arrow. Rest in peace, you were a fun build while you lasted! Do you still run that and, if so, are you doing it with an XL or a STD? If I could just shoehorn one more half ton of MG ammo into the STD 225 version without giving up a small laser, I'd go back in an instant. The crit chance on the LB-10X saved many a friendly 'Mech and put many a Timberwolf pilot six feet under earlier than he'd have liked. It was amazing.