31 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Let's take a look:




These weapons are, IMO, way too similar to each other.

Aside from the weight, slots & range, which are completely in the CERLLAS favor the other differences are barely there.

+0.55 more damage (-5%)?
-0.2s beam time (-13%)?
-0.5s heat (-6%)?

As good as the CLPL could be the benefits it gains are so marginal and tiny compared to the CERLLAS that the deciding factor unfortunately comes down to the much larger gains of the CERLLAS.


I would have much rather seen the CLPLs range in the 500s, perhaps 525 or 550 and have the beam time down further to have it be a real advantage around 1s.


Thoughts?

Edited by Ultimatum X, 16 June 2014 - 06:53 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Here are my thoughts.

Pulse lasers have been worthless for two years and counting.

[DAYLEET]

I love me some large pusle with med l on IS sides but cant see why anyone would go for large pulse on the Clan side, is heat much lower?

[WarHippy]

They really need to drop .15-.2 off the beam duration and I think they will be in a good spot.

[darkkterror]

The general consensus I've seen so far on the forums is that the Clan pulse lasers, like the Inner Sphere ones, aren't really worth it over the ER lasers. The pulse lasers either need a reduction in their beam duration or heat or increase in damage or something to make the extra tonnage/heat worth it.

Considering how long the Inner Sphere pulse lasers have been largely worthless, I'm not expecting a change to the Clan pulse lasers any time soon (if ever).

[cyberclaw]

WarHippy, on 16 June 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

They really need to drop .15-.2 off the beam duration and I think they will be in a good spot.

I think that would be perfect the damage and heat are good the just feal like they need to be a tad faster, id take a slight optimal range decrease to accommodate that change altho the IS LL is 1. and the LPL .8 so the duration difference is the same there

[VIPER2207]

Vassago Rain, on 16 June 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Here are my thoughts.

Pulse lasers have been worthless for two years and counting.

just to make sure, only for myself... is there anything that's NOT worthless / crappy / bad / {negative_expression_here} in your opinion?

[Philldoe]

I love reading discussions about balancing weapons which have not been released yet. </sarcasm>

Let's wait about a month after release. By then we'll have done some science and had real game play experiance with these weapons.

[Ultimax]

cyberclaw, on 16 June 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

I think that would be perfect the damage and heat are good the just feal like they need to be a tad faster, id take a slight optimal range decrease to accommodate that change altho the IS LL is 1. and the LPL .8 so the duration difference is the same there

IS LL/ERLL = 1s
IS LPL = 0.6s

40% shorter beam (0.4)

1.5s - 40% = 0.9s.


At 0.9s it would be a great weapon, it would still have to compete with C ER PPC. It would still be heavier than C ER LLAS and even IS ER LLAS.

A range reduction would allow the C ER LLAS to be better in it's own niche (range).

Philldoe, on 16 June 2014 - 07:07 AM, said:

I love reading discussions about balancing weapons which have not been released yet. </sarcasm>

Let's wait about a month after release. By then we'll have done some science and had real game play experiance with these weapons.

After the first day of PTS, PGI devs went through and made a bunch of changes and tweaks to multiple weapon's.

On top of that, it's raw numbers and previous play experience with the game.

This isn't rocket science, it's pretty easy to see how close these are to each other outside of Weight, Slots & Range. All of which are in the CERLLAS favor.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Yeah, unfortunately Clan pulse lasers are not really worth the tonnage increase. I am not sure what they need but for now just take the ER lasers and use the extra weight left over for the DHS you are going to need.

[Artifact]

The big benefit of pulse weapons in TT was the -2 to TN. It's pretty hard to overstate how huge a statistical increase that -2 represents. The rule of 9 is common method for determining whether to shoot or not in TT -- meaning fire on 9's or less.
Firing on 9s grants a ~28% percent chance of a hit. Firing on 8s grants a ~42% chance. But 10s, 11s, and 12s? 17%, 8%, and 3% respectively.

The increase in damage over time from pulse lasers cannot be overstated in TT. Dropping average TNs effectively from 9 to 7 increases damage over time by more than double, and allows for more difficult shots.

In /THIS/ game, they do nothing a regular laser can't do. Ignore their existence.

[Tetryon88]

They have 1 MAJOR thing going for them that LLas does not have...


WUB WUB WUB WUB WUB WUB

[RetroActive]

VIPER2207, on 16 June 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

just to make sure, only for myself... is there anything that's NOT worthless / crappy / bad / {negative_expression_here} in your opinion?

He is VERY butt-hurt over this video game and he doesn't understand how anyone else can enjoy the game when he does not.

[Abisha]

I have to agree the Clan Pulse Lasers are almost copy/pass to Lasers.
aint the idea of Pulse Lasers that they cycle faster at lower range?.

now only a fool use clan pulse lasers that one tonnage can buy you 2 lasers for the price of 1.

so how to make them better,

1.
Lower Range
-100 Meters or so

2.
Faster RoF at least 0.4

3.
Bit more heat generated.
1.5 more heat

4.
bit more Damage.
from 7 to 8.3 or so.

as for IS, the Medium Pulse lasers can use a tiny buff
the LPL are fine

Edited by Abisha, 16 June 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[VIPER2207]

RetroActive, on 16 June 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

He is VERY butt-hurt over this video game and he doesn't understand how anyone else can enjoy the game when he does not.

yeah i know that, i can even remember a time ("long long ago in a galaxy far far away...") when his posts were actually pretty useful, well-thought and nice to read.
But i for myself am not a white knight, i'm not a fan of PGI, my picture of them is not very shiny, i even attacked them pretty obviously more than one time (comparing them to ****** bakers wo missed their profession and stuff like that), but i can stilll post in a constructive way, and i can even admit when they did something good or right, even if it took them a while.

maybe i'm just a little tired of hearing him complaining about everything, this is bad, and that is terrible, not to mention that other horrible thing... maybe it makes me sad somehow...

For example the sound effects, the design of the clan mechs, all that's pretty awesome in my opinion, and i can admit that... so what's the point about complaining about everything?

And besides that, he isn't even right with his statement that puls lasers are bad... after the last changes PGI did do the puls lasers, i find them pretty nice and i use them on some of my mechs with good success.

[Mordin Ashe]

Vassago Rain is right, they were and still are very poor choice.
I think pulses should be balanced more like pulses in MW4, that is slightly more damage, disproportionally more heat, but much faster cooldown and very slow beam/pulse duration. Pulses should be something that should enable to you dump your high DPS on enemy very fast at the expense of suistainability in heat management. Without this they rare simply poor choice and one is better with targeting computer.

[Bobzilla]

I was playing with the CLPLs a lot as I use LPLs a lot. I find the IS ones very useful, 2 is like a faster rof AC20 with better range, no ammo but not as sustainable. I found the heat managable, even with the GH from 3, and the CD was ok. From a game standpoint it would make much more sense to have less range with shorter beam, if you are planing on shooting that far out, there are much better weapons for the job, and so the CLPL gets lost by weapons which out perform in all it's usable roles. It's too heavy and hot to be a well rounded weapon, yet has no niche to fill.

[Sprouticus]

DAYLEET, on 16 June 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

I love me some large pusle with med l on IS sides but cant see why anyone would go for large pulse on the Clan side, is heat much lower?

Yea, the IS LPL is a very niche weapon. It is barely viable, barely 2nd tier, but I do use them on fast IS mediums and light killers. The MPL and SPL are shelf weapons on the IS side.

The clan pulse lasers are universally terrible compared to their non pulse counterparts. They would have to bump the beam time on the cLPL down to the same value as the IS LPL to make it even worth considering. Even then a person like me who likes them as a ciche weapon would be hard pressed to spend the tonnage in such a manner.

[Damocles69]

No reason to use either. C ER Medium invalidates both.

Wile the C ER large laser looks good on paper the burn time is just egregiously long. You can be cored out in a heavy just waiting for the beam to finish with all the FLD meta builds out there.

ER med is in the sweet spot. 1 ton for 7 damage and 5 heat that reaches out to IS large range.... Yes, yes please, I'll take 6!

Oh, and pulse lasers are bad because pulse lasers. I mean come on, did you really expect anything else out of Paul? You guys are giving that man entierly to much confindance in the competency department

Edited by Damocles69, 16 June 2014 - 07:59 AM.

[cyberclaw]

Ultimatum X, on 16 June 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

IS LL/ERLL = 1s
IS LPL = 0.6s

40% shorter beam (0.4)

1.5s - 40% = 0.9s.


At 0.9s it would be a great weapon, it would still have to compete with C ER PPC. It would still be heavier than C ER LLAS and even IS ER LLAS.

A range reduction would allow the C ER LLAS to be better in it's own niche (range).



After the first day of PTS, PGI devs went through and made a bunch of changes and tweaks to multiple weapon's.

On top of that, it's raw numbers and previous play experience with the game.

This isn't rocket science, it's pretty easy to see how close these are to each other outside of Weight, Slots & Range. All of which are in the CERLLAS favor.

my bad I thought I read .8 on IS LPL that would explane why the CLPL felt so crappy in my summoner