20 replies to this topic

[Pygar]

I don't suppose anybody knows the answer to this yet, especially since it is only so clear how this works normally...but how exactly does Artemis affect Clan LRMs?

[Sephlock]

Pygar, on 16 June 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

I don't suppose anybody knows the answer to this yet, especially since it is only so clear how this works normally...but how exactly does Artemis affect Clan LRMs?

Nobody seems to know for sure.

That said, I hereby officially nominate "Clan LRMs and Artemis" and all varations thereof for the title previously held by "Gauss explosions?".

[wolf74]

Looking at the Weapons Code from the Sunday Test, Artemis ammo work the same in every line.
For Both I.S. And Clan

Edited by wolf74, 16 June 2014 - 11:15 PM.

[Eboli]

Hi all,

I would like to resurrect this slightly old topic.

After using Artemis on my Timberwolf last night for a number of games I really am wondering whether my impression that it adds little gain for an extra ton is valid. My impressions give me that it does not seem to concentrate more damaged to limited areas and that 2 tons wasted on 2 x 15 lrms could have gone towards something else. I am not whinging about it.

Now that we have had a few days on Public Server what are other people's impressions of Clan Artemis LRMs and Clan Artemis SRMs (not used myself yet). Is it worth an extra ton per set of missile tubes and with PGI's view that Clan Tech weapon damage is more spread out even applies more than in comparison to IS LRMs?


Cheers!
Eboli

Edited by Eboli, 19 June 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[Varik Ronain]

You only get a tighter spread if you have LoS to your target... otherwise it is just faster lock on time. (for IS LRMS that is)

[Eboli]

Varik Ronain, on 19 June 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

You only get a tighter spread if you have LoS to your target... otherwise it is just faster lock on time. (for IS LRMS that is)

Of course - LoS... Forgot that bit. Will need to observe this more to see what differences it makes.

Cheers Varik.

[Lightfoot]

It's a little bugged with hills on some maps. It goes over some big hills, but can't make it over a little bump. And LRMs need a buff, they are almost not worth taking anymore. Maybe when they get Clan LRMs with zero minimums it will improve a bit, but this would have to be a very big impact buff. Basically PGI has made LRMs viable only if massively boated again. They even are garbage with LoS.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

I tried a Kitfox with 2 x LRM15s and 2 x LRM5s and it was pretty good

[SaltBeef]

Seems to me that w/o artemis they fire more staright ahead and will eat dirt most of the time. Artemis they arc up at launch.

[Mordin Ashe]

Somehow - and don't ask me why - I do much better in my ARLM45 TW than in my LRM70 Warhawk.

The thing is, in the current meta most of your damage is going to be indirect. TAG+LRMs is a better choice for me than TAG+ALRMS. Still, no idea why my TW simply works better with LRMs, I know it isn't only about the speed of the thing.

[Kilo 40]

Mordin Ashe, on 24 June 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

Somehow - and don't ask me why - I do much better in my ARLM45 TW than in my LRM70 Warhawk.

probably because each miss in the LRM70 hurts so much more than a miss with the LRM45.

It's why I tend to use LRM15s instead of LRM20's. Its not as many hitting the target at one time, but you can keep throwing them out there for longer.

[Mordin Ashe]

Kilo 40, on 24 June 2014 - 03:18 AM, said:

Its not as many hitting the target at one time, but you can keep throwing them out there for longer.

That is the real value in that Mech I guess. 2xLRM15 and 2xLRM10 is a lot of missiles, no ghost heat, one can pack more ammo and reinforce backup weaponry. Also I think that the Warhawk was never meant to be a LRM boat anyway, even though it may be build that way.

[Ultimax]

Mordin Ashe, on 24 June 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

That is the real value in that Mech I guess. 2xLRM15 and 2xLRM10 is a lot of missiles, no ghost heat, one can pack more ammo and reinforce backup weaponry.

Yeah, 2x cLRM 15s is a decent zone.

Lets say you have 15 tons to dedicate:

2x cLRM 15 (Total 7 Tons)
8 Tons of ammo

For a total of
15 tons
48 Salvos (1440 missiles)
33 potential damage per salvo, 1584 total potential damage (fantasy land)

vs.

2x cLRM 20 (Total 10 Tons)
5 Tons of ammo

For a total of
15 tons
22.5 salvos (900 missiles)
44 potential damage per salvo, 990 total potential damage (fantasy land)


That's an easy choice for me.

The extra ammo allows cushion for the kind of waste damage LRMs generate (with accuracy rates probably around 30%) & suppresing fire (when you know you are unlikely to actually hit).

Under the right conditions (like having a well played NARC using team mate) you will have the potential for more overall damage with the LRM 15s +more ammo.


So it's a "fewer big hits" vs. "more consistent output, with higher cieling" on a ton for ton basis - but LRMs really aren't about "a few big hits".

They simply don't function that way, the way that IS AC 20s function for example.

Mordin Ashe, on 24 June 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

Also I think that the Warhawk was never meant to be a LRM boat anyway, even though it may be build that way.

I don't like it as a full LRM boat because it's just too limiting.

However, slapping a few supplemental cLRM racks so you can provide support fire before the push/clean up works well and you can still take a decent amount of other weapons if you do.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 24 June 2014 - 07:13 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Clan LRM missile code is a mess.

But I'm scared to make a fuss, for fear that Paul "fixes" it and causes another LRMageddon, as per past "fixes".

[Pygar]

Mordin Ashe, on 24 June 2014 - 02:57 AM, said:

Somehow - and don't ask me why - I do much better in my ARLM45 TW than in my LRM70 Warhawk.

The thing is, in the current meta most of your damage is going to be indirect. TAG+LRMs is a better choice for me than TAG+ALRMS. Still, no idea why my TW simply works better with LRMs, I know it isn't only about the speed of the thing.

It's why I asked this question in the first place...I tend to do better using a conservative amount of launchers with Artemis than I do with an "LRM9000" build "Firing ALL the missiles!".

I just wondered if the stream fire trait of the CLRMs hosed the way Artemis worked... I am finding in battles it works just as good for Clan missiles as IS.

[Thorqemada]

Artemis afailk is Narc Incompatible (no tighter clustering), is countered by ECM on the Targed or the Launcher and only works with LOS - the range of Artemis is unknown to me.
Artemis also improves the "Tracking" of LRM (you probably hit moving Targets at a higher chance).
Artemis increases the Lock-On Speed by a significant amount.
I only know IS-LRM and imho Artemis and LRM10/15 work the best - the LRM20 is inefficient (i only use the Phoenix-Battlemaster with the ALRM20 bcs it has only 1 Missile Hardpoint).

Clan LRM stream their Missiles but you can at least measure the Lock-On time and Testing Ground should work to measure Clan LRM on immobile Targets.

PS: Would be nice if PGI could enlight us about the current state of Artemis

Edited by Thorqemada, 24 June 2014 - 09:21 AM.

[OznerpaG]

Artemus is supposed to reduce lock time by 50% which is the main reason you get it, and there's no separate clan and IS Artemus so it should work the same on both sides. however i'm pretty sure c-LRMs are still a 'work in progress' - i'v played 1000+ games with IS LRMs the last 6 months so i know EXACTLY how they work and i have a lot of problems with c-LRMs since their release

my problems are:

• slower lock times

• i sometimes can't lock on to ECM mechs when i'm TAGging them in plain view

• i sometimes lose my HUD LRM recticle when i have an enemy mech in plain view in front of me, even when i'm TAGging it so i have to switch targets to get the recticle up again - not fun when there's a lot of enemy mechs to target before you get back to the one you want to shoot at

• and firing my c-LRMs into the ground in front of me even though i have a firm lock on the enemy

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

C-Streaks also enjoy chewing ground...

[Arctcwolf]

last i checked...artemis only give improved lock speed and missile clustering. for IS LRM's firing all at once, this is preferable. with clan lrm's firing in sequence, there is no "cluster". in a srm build, artemis clusters srm 4's and 6's tighter instead of "spraying" a target. if u notice...streak srm's are unaffected by artemis. because of this, i doubt the "lock time reduction" is in place, and it only provides a tighter spread.

As I said, clan lrm's fire in sequence, so there is no cluster to pack, just a stream hitting a mech, and to be honest, i'd rather they hit all over the place to juggle whoever i'm firing at and keep their reticle off me as long as I can.

[Yokaiko]

Mordin Ashe, on 24 June 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

That is the real value in that Mech I guess. 2xLRM15 and 2xLRM10 is a lot of missiles, no ghost heat, one can pack more ammo and reinforce backup weaponry. Also I think that the Warhawk was never meant to be a LRM boat anyway, even though it may be build that way.

My favorite warhawk has a couple LRM launchers, but its the PPCs and SRMs that do real work, being able to scare off support is the real value there.

Of course with 35 tubes, it no laughing matter if I catch you in the open, I can just pound away.